Avorion

Avorion

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kirb Oct 3, 2021 @ 5:42pm
Research stations are just useless
from what it seems they only exist as an arbitrary gimmick with the only significant use being getting that one artifact. Other than that they just eat your items and give you garbage in return. I've been putting in items for about 30 minutes, all sets of the same kind, and not ONE result has actually had higher stats than anything i put in. it's literally useless.
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Showing 1-15 of 18 comments
🦊 Hermit Oct 3, 2021 @ 6:05pm 
You've had bad RNG. They can give you amazing things. In my recent game I've gotten a bolter turret with over 4k DPS from researching them up...and this is before the barrier.
Last edited by 🦊 Hermit; Oct 3, 2021 @ 6:05pm
Ryvucz Oct 3, 2021 @ 6:11pm 
Are you putting in all five or just three?
KaneNOD Oct 3, 2021 @ 6:15pm 
To get better items, you need to find a Research station more near the center.. :steamthumbsup:
Aurelia Oct 3, 2021 @ 6:16pm 
Just as an added note, please pay attention to the tech level of the research station. That will dictate the tech level of the item it pops out. So if you're throwing T39's into a T23 station, expect returns of T23, which are very likely to be worse.

For best results, always use the research stations closest to the center that you have access to.
Bobucles Oct 3, 2021 @ 6:20pm 
The main utility of research stations is upgrading equipment modules. Each item gives 20% chance to upgrade, from 60/80/100% to tier up. Fill up your bank, go to a research station, and power up a dozen modules. Higher level modules are almost always better and the station tier does not matter.

Weapon upgrades are slightly less useful. Research stations have a level cap depending on the zone tier. Five guns will result in a higher rarity gun with a level bonus, but there are a lot more RNG elements to the gun stats. A legendary weapon can still be weaker than a lower rarity gun, especially when turret factories are involved. Harvesting turrets can not be upgraded at all, because old material tiers stay on the new turret and it remains obsolete.
Last edited by Bobucles; Oct 3, 2021 @ 6:24pm
fractalgem Oct 3, 2021 @ 7:16pm 
Originally posted by Bobucles:
The main utility of research stations is upgrading equipment modules. Each item gives 20% chance to upgrade, from 60/80/100% to tier up. Fill up your bank, go to a research station, and power up a dozen modules. Higher level modules are almost always better and the station tier does not matter.

Weapon upgrades are slightly less useful. Research stations have a level cap depending on the zone tier. Five guns will result in a higher rarity gun with a level bonus, but there are a lot more RNG elements to the gun stats. A legendary weapon can still be weaker than a lower rarity gun, especially when turret factories are involved. Harvesting turrets can not be upgraded at all, because old material tiers stay on the new turret and it remains obsolete.

That, and weapons have a much more fiddly RNG to them, such that even if you use what's otherwise the same *seed* of turret, but upgrade the rarity and or tech value a little bit, you're not *guaranteed* an upgrade. It's why building a few different turret factories in core sectors and sinking gobs and gobs of credits into additional seeds, then spending time combing over the combinations (or making a script to tell you good locations to build and what) is going to be your go-to method for post-boss weapons.


However, throwing your junk from iron sectors into a ressearch station in the naonite regions can still get you some cheap half decent weapons on the cheap(since the tech level will increase sooooo much; in theory I think you could make money if you bought trash tier iron guns at low tech level, then upgraded them in the avorion sectors, but that's a LONG trip to make and really fiddly. )

Last edited by fractalgem; Oct 3, 2021 @ 7:17pm
kirb Oct 3, 2021 @ 7:29pm 
Originally posted by KaneNOD:
To get better items, you need to find a Research station more near the center.. :steamthumbsup:
I am directly outside the barrier, not even a jump away
kirb Oct 3, 2021 @ 7:30pm 
Originally posted by Ryvucz:
Are you putting in all five or just three?
All five, tried three occasionally
kirb Oct 3, 2021 @ 7:30pm 
Originally posted by KaneNOD:
To get better items, you need to find a Research station more near the center.. :steamthumbsup:
I'm using one right outside the barrier
fractalgem Oct 3, 2021 @ 9:07pm 
Originally posted by Kirbcake:
Originally posted by KaneNOD:
To get better items, you need to find a Research station more near the center.. :steamthumbsup:
I am directly outside the barrier, not even a jump away
You don't seem to get it.
Weapon rng is very VERY fiddly.

I want you to read what i'm telling you very, VERY carefully. Its long, it's complicated, but you need to understand it to know when and how and above all WHY to use research stations.

First: weapon rng produces a HUGE range of outcomes even for a given tech level and rarity. Lets say that RNG effectively gives you a random number from 1 to 50; the actual rng is a black box to me, but this will do to illustrate. Upgrading the tech level or rarity effectively rerolls this number, so you can go from a bunch of "1s" to a bunch of 50's, but you can also be shoving in 40's and oly getting 1's out.


As you approach the barrier, you've probably picked up and sorted through a bunch of weapons already. Most of the weapons you use probably have multipliers on the 40 to 50 range.

So lets say you've got 10 rare's with a 45 RNG multiplier equipped to your ship.

You toss in 5 uncommons, and it spits out a 30.
You try again. 5, 14, 14, 42....
So on average you need to play about 10 times to get ONE weapon that's sliiightly better than what you have.



You may be asking, "well i'm also upgrading the rarity AND the tech level, surely..."

But the catch is, i'm UNDER selling the effect RNG has here.


Using the research lab for *weapons* is effectively playing the slots. You can cheat a bit and use cheap washers from the very edge of the galaxy, but you're still playing the slots hoping for a payout.

There's WAYS to use the research lab to get amazing legendary grade weaponry, but unless you use a third party tool to peer into the black box or something, you're looking at STAGGERING amounts of resources by an entire clan operating massive assembly lines over a period of MONTHS so that they can brute force the issue by throwing THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of exotic weapons into a research station just so they can learn about "THat ONE weapon seed" that spits out a legendary weapon that's better than the best exotic weapon their upgraded weapon stations can produce.

Oh, and it will probably have to be done at a very specific research station to. go one sector closer to the core and you could be looking at utter junk.


The results you get when upgrading systems are less affected by this, as modules have much, MUCH less variance in their behavior based on RNG. You'll still find them mostly useful late game, however.



TLDR: the research station, when USED ON WEAPONS, is a slot machine. Either cheat with cheap washers or learn how to rig it in your favor AFTER you have assembly lines in the core.
Last edited by fractalgem; Oct 3, 2021 @ 9:21pm
aaron Oct 4, 2021 @ 1:32am 
usually what i do is i find a decent turret factory, make 100 turrets that are identical.. then throw those into the research. you will get mostly junk, but just once you might get one with 100x more dps or something.

then you turn that into a blueprint and start over.
Weaver Oct 4, 2021 @ 2:34am 
I very rarely use Research for turrets, and not just because of the RNG on them. One of the tactics I use is to remove the overheat mechanic on weapons which have it (bolters, rails, etc) by DEcreasing the amount of Servos used to craft a turret. The second you research those turrets up, that element gets rerolled too, and I have never seen the overheat mechanic removed by a researched turret.

RNG is the other reason I don't research my turrets. It is simply too rare to get a result which is better than Turret Factories in the same region can provide. You're essentially hoping to achieve a random result that is better than 100% stats on a crafted turret, which would only be possible if the factory in question has a bad seed. It is almost always better to craft turrets manually than to rely on drops or research for upgrades.

But to say that research is "useless" is a bit much. It is the fastest way to kit out your ships in all Legendary tier upgrades. Waiting for them to drop from enemies...I don't even know how long that would take. It's very, very unlikely that you'll get better guns out of it, but for the system upgrades...very much anything but useless.

If it's better guns you want, I recommend exploring more factions (buy their maps for a quick and easy way to reveal their territory) and trying to find the best turrets for the region that way. Alternatively, you could build your own Turret Factories and just keep doing that until you find better guns that way. It's expensive and grindy, but it works.

When I'm comparing turrets from factories, I take a screenshot and pull that up when I get to the next factory. I can easily compare the two side-by-side if I have the screenshot window resized the right way. If the new factory offers better guns, I take a new screenshot and delete the old one. Lather, rinse, repeat until you get an upgrade.

Also note that you can track "missions" to keep the parts needed for the turret displayed on your screen, as well as the factory where the part list was generated. I use this to prevent forgetting where the needed turret was available. You can do this for blueprints as well, which makes it easier to acquire the parts for a full run of turrets. After you have the blueprint, it's just a matter of finding a factory with a compatible tech level.

As far as acquiring the parts for crafted turrets, you either have to get very, very lucky with your galaxy seed or build the stations yourself. In every new galaxy I make, there is always at least one Good I can never find any of. Setting up stations is time consuming and a tremendous investment of materials and credits, but it's the only sure way to guarantee you get the parts you need on a reliable and convenient basis.

Option 3 is to take all the "junk" guns you get from drops or research to a Scrapyard and dismantle them for parts. If you dismantle (for example) a Bolter, you get parts for Bolters from it, so you can kind of narrow the range that way. There is still an RNG element and some of the Goods needed for any given gun may be rarer than others. You'd need a ship with a large cargo bay to make it work, but it can be done. I usually do that when I'm in a rush for guns and can't afford stations yet.

Hope it helps.
Last edited by Weaver; Oct 4, 2021 @ 2:38am
the~jack Oct 4, 2021 @ 2:34am 
pulsegun with 5,5k omni as 3 slot after only 2 hours of grind..
fractalgem Oct 4, 2021 @ 3:21am 
Oooooh, scrapping guns for parts. I'm glad THAT"S in the game now.

...it was a LONG time ago when I last played extensively. 2 years + now?

I've got a lot to catch up on.
Weaver Oct 4, 2021 @ 3:47am 
Originally posted by fractalgem:
Oooooh, scrapping guns for parts. I'm glad THAT"S in the game now.

...it was a LONG time ago when I last played extensively. 2 years + now?

I've got a lot to catch up on.

I was pretty stoked on it myself, to be honest. It's not a guarantee, but it's better than nothing! Especially when there's always that one part that you can never find any of.
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Date Posted: Oct 3, 2021 @ 5:42pm
Posts: 18