Sneaky
71 Comments
< >
p0rtalmaster May 14 @ 9:37pm 
True, but the real question is, when is VALVe going to fix it....

Anyway, aside from what is now a typical bug (probably due to the way the Hammer instance is set up), this test is fine.
wildgoosespeeder  [author] May 14 @ 9:29pm 
@p0rtalmaster
Aware. Read description. Also, this has been a problem since day one when the Workshop went out of beta.
p0rtalmaster May 14 @ 8:41pm 
Intended to solve the chaber normally; cube slipped through grating anyway. VALVe!!...
kimist108 Mar 2 @ 7:10pm 
WOW! Had the cube on the button and decided it was time to use that faithplate in the enclosed room. Saw the grated surface and thought ????? Well, there are only 3 things that could go through it and the laser light would do no good. Super funny finish. Again, as with other maps of yours, close inspection of those antlines is needed.
Honest_Cake Jan 2 @ 7:44am 
Umm....I have no idea if I did it right, but... I solved it, so I am happy! And that last part... I didn't even know you could do that! Great map!
Nethseaar Dec 20, 2013 @ 12:34pm 
Spectacular! You had me screaming at you in hatred and anger for a good long while at several sections. That made discovering the solution all the better! Well done! Takes a while to sort all the elements out, but I don't know whether that can be helped.
Velexia Nov 24, 2013 @ 9:50pm 
Play my chambers, and then give me your analysis on them, and I'll take those thoughts into consideration, deal =) ?
wildgoosespeeder  [author] Nov 24, 2013 @ 7:55pm 
@Velexia
I forgot to mention that "multi solution" tests often make it unclear what to do because there is too much "noise" in the chamber. Great test chamber creation is a subtle art that takes a long time to master. You have to find the right balance between explicit steps and subtle hints for the player to solve the test. I'm no expert but I see a difference in a designer's older tests with their newer tests. I've played some of Mevious's earlier work before the Portal 2 Workshop and I see his style and test creation has gotten better throughout the years.

There has been one test I have played that has two solutions to it but the second solution is very cleverly hidden while the first solution is what most players would think to do (looks like you have played it):
http://www.steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails?id=94896335
Velexia Nov 24, 2013 @ 4:05pm 
I disagree with your view of multiple solution tests. In m case, I specifically create multiple solutions, allowing the player to set their own level of difficulty, and I leave room for creative solutions to difficult puzzles. It's not laziness. It's intentional design. It might not be a flavor you like, but that doesn't make it any more or less valid.
wildgoosespeeder  [author] Nov 23, 2013 @ 9:50pm 
@Velexia
As for your struggle, revisions can be made, but I got no ideas how to make better than the current version.
wildgoosespeeder  [author] Nov 23, 2013 @ 9:38pm 
@Velexia
This may have been excusable in the Portal 1 days because the mechanics were so interesting at the time but Portal 2, tests need to be more focused because of all the new and existing elements there are to explore and combine.
wildgoosespeeder  [author] Nov 23, 2013 @ 9:37pm 
@Velexia
The idea behind "single solution" tests is that the designer is trying to convey a concept with the puzzle elements presented in the chamber. Restrictions are in place to hopefully get the player to problem solve the way the designer intended the chamber to be solved. This sacrifices to some degree of exploration. When the test is finished, the player should feel that they had a rewarding experience completing the test.

On the other hand, the idea behind "multi solution" tests is that the designer is not even trying to do anything specific or unique with the test elements. This could be by accident of course because even I did not forsee somebody doing the test "this way". In some cases, they are just lazy or making excuses not to fix anything. There is exploration but the test misses the mark. The player feels like they cheated.
Velexia Nov 23, 2013 @ 11:30am 
Here is a video of my blind run, for your viewing pleasure. I did give up though (I was also extremely tired).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NwxeDQHmN4
Velexia Nov 23, 2013 @ 10:52am 
Well, it's just my opinion. I watched Mevious' playthrough of it, and I can tell you, even knowing what to do... I don't want to do it. Doesn't look fun to me. If it's generally frowned upon to have multiple solutions, then I am not included in general ~_^

I stand for people who are against the idea that multiple solutions = broken.

To suggest that a "similar" solution is equivalent to multiple solutions, and could theoretically require fixing if you were bothered to do it... is disturbing, to me.

Anyway, I'd love to see your critiques of my two test chambers =3 (with video if yew can). I'd like to know what someone with your brain thinks of them =)
wildgoosespeeder  [author] Nov 23, 2013 @ 9:51am 
@Velexia
Actually playtests revealed that there are three ways to solve this test,especially to stop the cube from getting regenerated. Also it is generally frowned upon to have multiple solutions. Sure my test here has several, but I concluded they are similar in execution so no use fixing it.
Velexia Nov 23, 2013 @ 12:18am 
I tend to dislike maps like this, where there is one solution, and only one solution, and the designer has broken their back to make sure you can only ever solve it the one way they meant for it to be solved. It's like being railroaded on a train of thought, punished into conformity... and no chance that you'll have a unique experience (You'll either solve it in the only possible manner, or quit in frustration... with no alternative).
Velexia Nov 23, 2013 @ 12:02am 
I tend to dislike maps like this, where there is one solution, and only one solution, and the designer has broken their back to make sure you can only ever solve it the one way they meant for it to be solved. It's like being railroaded on a train of thought, punished into conformity... and no chance that you'll have a unique experience (You'll either solve it, or quit in frustration... with no middle ground).
Velexia Nov 22, 2013 @ 11:58pm 
I liked the overall design of the map, but I felt like certain elements were just there to frustrate the player. I stopped playing after dealing with the Bounce Gel, Cube, Laser and Timed Pedestal Button a few too many times. (And a cube spawning and destroying itself across the map... over and over). I'm sure there's a solution, but I am too tired to be bothered at this point. Especially when dealing with a short timer and a bouncing cube. Meh.
srs bsnss Sep 28, 2013 @ 1:13am 
I liked this - it certainly brought in some really interesting ideas that I haven't seen before. If I had one complaint, it'd be that it's difficult to establish what does what, when first starting out. Other than that, really well done!
raycelbelmond Jul 12, 2013 @ 4:32am 
Yes it's a sneaky one. I had problem with the logic when i was supposed to loose my portals and i didn't. Nice job. The jumping gel is surprising. Try one of mine. Maybe ''Nelson'' or ''Denis'' Raycelbelmond
Kasim_St1age @spotify Jul 9, 2013 @ 4:13am 
Nice Map...i needed some attempts to solve this map..maybe you wanna try my first map
Dave Jul 3, 2013 @ 7:06am 
everything looks perfect jumping gel surpriced me a lot :D need more maps good as this :)
wildgoosespeeder  [author] Jul 2, 2013 @ 3:00pm 
@TLC
The tools are there. You just have to think of new ways to use them and push on with the limitations I imposed on this map. I wouldn't release something broken if I didn't test it first. If something slips through, mention it. I can fix it.
TLC Jul 2, 2013 @ 4:30am 
a very interesting map. Very well done. Thanks. The jumping cube makes me angry at the begining, and "no way" to clean it. arrrrhghrrhr :))). Hope you'll have a look on my first map
Have a nice day.
Dave Jun 28, 2013 @ 9:16am 
very well done level :) I like that part about water generator can block him self prety nice :) and all level was little bit tricky :) had problem with jumping cube :D
Bayram Jun 26, 2013 @ 10:39am 
This took me quite some time, spread over three sessions, to solve. I got frustrated from time-to-time, but now I feel pretty good, so thumbs up!

Please try my escape-themed chamber, "The Oubliette". It is large and quite difficult, story-based (rather than puzzle-centric) with deadly traps.
wildgoosespeeder  [author] Jun 15, 2013 @ 9:36am 
@Prototype
The part where you place portals to not hit the laser-activated cube dropper when getting the cube on the side with the blue gel, not intended but I have no idea how to fix that without exporting to Hammer. I think it is essentially the same thing as allowing the laser catcher to get hit by the laser but using the 12-second pedestal button to block the one laser to not fizzle the cube. That way when you are on the other side, you need to either block the laser in the corner where you first activate the laser after the aerial faith plate blue gel bounce or place a portal to not activate the ceiling laser catcher just before time runs out while the cube is on the right side.
|B3ATB0X|KittenGamer|DJ| Jun 15, 2013 @ 5:50am 
yeah i loved it it is really hard that's the hardest map i think i ever play !!!
|B3ATB0X|KittenGamer|DJ| Jun 15, 2013 @ 5:09am 
Try my map it is really hard Download here
Zoraya Jun 14, 2013 @ 1:40pm 
I loved the visual style of this map. Very challenging puzzles in a compact room. Great work! I invite you to check out my new map if you like.
Not as challenging as yours but maybe enjoyable too.
Prototype Jun 11, 2013 @ 4:19am 
Nice puzzle, here is my blind run: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mm9qwwqs1z3g84s/sneaky.dem I actually kinda like the antlines coming out from the ceiling reciever.
fusorf Jun 9, 2013 @ 11:43am 
Very clever map ! I enjoyed playing it :)
wildgoosespeeder  [author] Jun 8, 2013 @ 7:18pm 
@Kolgork
Remember cubes block lasers. The laser stopping the gel blob was really a happy accident.
Gusano Supremo Jun 8, 2013 @ 5:13pm 
Yes, i figured out that from the begining (geting the cube out from where the laser was). wich was hard for me was to making work again the cleaning gel. in fact, i don't know if i did it as as intented, it was a bit weird the way i did. i managed to drop the box that cuts the laser that is desactivating the cleaning gel dropper. but (and this is what i thought it was buged or something, and with my poor english is hard to explain), the drop of cleaning gel got like... stucked in the dropper. i think the laser (don't remember why) was what was stucking the gel . I hope you excuse my bad english and you has understood me. If is necesary, i could record a video repeating (if i remember!) exactly how i did the chamber. Just if you ask me, because my internet is as poor as my english, but i could make the effort :)
wildgoosespeeder  [author] Jun 8, 2013 @ 4:25pm 
@Kolgork
The idea is for you and the cube to go through the portal as the laser shines through it (the cross fizzlers remaining disabled for that to be possible). The cube grating glitch allows cubes to go through a grate-covered portal surface as portals are placed one way. One can easily use this glitch to set the cube under the water dropper (or other grate-covered portal surfaces in this puzzle).
Gusano Supremo Jun 8, 2013 @ 6:24am 
to say the truth, i was about to quit because i thought i "bugged" the chamber and the cleaning gel was "broken". Then, i figured out how to make it work again ^^. Very tricky, but i liked. Good job with this chamber, challenging but clear.
btw, i never used the grating glitch, can't even imagine how can be done in this one. And yes, valve should look into that.
wildgoosespeeder  [author] Jun 6, 2013 @ 11:41pm 
@Repelsteeltje
Depends on how the puzzle elements are configured. In this case, it makes it easier.
Repelsteeltje Jun 6, 2013 @ 6:24pm 
Cube grating glitch makes puzzles even harder to solve, because you have to make sure your cube won't go through any grating and, for example, gets stuck... It should really be fixed...
Same for portal bugs etc... I had no problem with figuring out the chamber's lining. I think you did very well on that one. Also the timed button was well timed. The last part with the gel bouncing on the faith plate was hard, actually it was very easy, but i had no idea it was possible... When i noticed the only thing i could use the tile for was for gel, it was easy. Great room! Keep up the good work! I think you might like some of my own chambers, feel free to test them :)
Drell Bozok Jun 6, 2013 @ 11:30am 
What is the Cube Grating GLitch?
stormsend Jun 6, 2013 @ 12:59am 
I went back in to try what you said and it works great. Thanks.
wildgoosespeeder  [author] Jun 5, 2013 @ 4:52pm 
Added two more seconds to the timed pedestal button. I'll keep tweaking the timer if needed. This is why I like blind playthroughs recorded somehow so I can identify problem areas.
tepdoolb Jun 5, 2013 @ 12:33am 
Great map took me a while to solve and about 10 min to even figure out where to begin (yes the map name helped with that). I would say though that the timer needs to be a little longer.
wildgoosespeeder  [author] Jun 4, 2013 @ 4:42pm 
Actually, you have the power to extend the time without me actually updating the map. Just remember that cubes block lasers.Although not intended to solve, once the cube is on the gel dispenser side, just make a mad dash to place the cube in front of the laser in the corner near where you activate the portal redirectable laser after the first faith plate blue gel bounce. Ultimately, the cube will stop its own demise, giving you more time to think what to do next.
stormsend Jun 3, 2013 @ 2:11am 
I liked the fact that I struggled for hours to find the solution. What I didn't like was that even knowing the solution it took a long time to complete. I played and quit several times before I finally got the timing right. Sorry if I sound like I'm complaining cause I'm not. Some people like the very close timers and I've used them myself but if I don't need to be close on the timing I usually give plenty (even extra) time. This was a very good puzzle and several elements of it were quite unique (at least I've never seen it before). I have more of yours in my queue and look forward to solving them (if I can). Thumbs up.
wildgoosespeeder  [author] Jun 1, 2013 @ 11:42pm 
@Imaria
I did have a feeling the cube escape is too fast. Even I struggled to get out in time and make sure the cube doesn't get fizzled or respawned by the laser. It is currently set to 10 seconds. I'll consider up to 16 seconds if other people have that problem.
Imaria Jun 1, 2013 @ 11:12pm 
Some feedback, without spoiling the solution for others: The timing for the cube escape is a LITTLE too fast; bordered on twitch-gaming. Clicking the button, running to the portal while grabbing the cube? All normal fare. But then having to jump out the other side, make sure the cube isn't where any of the fizzlers will appear, and then ALSO orient yourself to break the portal link? That gets to be a bit much. Slowing down that timer by even a second or two would make this a lot nicer to play through, without ruining any of the key elements.
wildgoosespeeder  [author] Jun 1, 2013 @ 9:14am 
@Vexorum
Unfortunately, if I create a bigger map for this to remove some of the confusion, there could be a chance of a build error because I ran into this a few times already when creating this chamber. This is the best I can do.
Vexorum Jun 1, 2013 @ 12:58am 
Wow! This was very confusing. I've had a lot trouble figuring out exactly which things cause what. I think there are some very nice ideas in here. Perhaps they would be a bit clearer in a larger map? Thanks for sharing!
Vintage Skilance May 31, 2013 @ 5:50am 
That was a tough one! :-)