Steam community moderation consistency is a joke

[CatraGirl]

So as I recently discovered, you can actually get an account-wide community ban for getting banned in "several community hubs".
Now, considering Steam communty moderation is about as arbitrary as can be, I think that's pretty insane. I've been called all kinds of insults on different Steam forums, including stuff that get's censored if I type it out here (like the r-word etc). Now personally I don't really have a problem with that, I think insults on an internet forum aren't really that much of a problem and don't affect me much, BUT then I get banned for absolutely silly stuff like this: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/790885445899439694/5E2740014E172D85526400C8FB1AAF4F3F21DE0E/
Or this: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/788632137959040123/1AF1B694EAE5F5B629D63F7A094663FF2E67DF83/
Or community "warning" for this: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/790864491023530918/D5C9921D7D3EE0B8E52E6A0CA8CCD8FA7806A240/

My point here: it's almost impossible to know beforehand, what is and what isn't allowed in a specific Steam community. Some have pretty much no moderation at all, others have self-important moderators who will ban you for a sarcastic comment or an obvious joke. So it's pretty damn ridiculous, that something so arbitrary can lead to account-wide sanctions. So either Valve enforces their guide-lines Steam-wide (as if) and makes it clear what is and isn't allowed or keep it as it is, let the mods rule their little realms, but don't sanction entire accounts for their arbitrary actions.

[Kaldaien]

Originalmente postado por crunchyfrog:

Kaldaein.

Let me make it clear. You do not have the right to complain anything is untowards about having a post pinned without your permission. It is with the forum rules and guidelines. You do not OWN what is on here, nor do you have much in the way of rights. You can ask for posts to maybe be removed or something, but not much more.

So my evidence is the Steam forum rules you agreed to.

Where's your evidence to the contrary? All I see are assertions and fake pearl clutching.

This policy makes people want to contribute to the Steam community how exactly?

I should have some say in this, having a status assigned to one of my threads that confuses just enough users irate with the developer to take their frustration out on me is precisely how you craft a community where bigger users get tired of harassment and leave entirely.


I will just point you to this thread, which is where most of my problems began:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/524220/discussions/0/1327844097131584424/

That user has a lot of ridiculous ideas, and this represents the point at which he began attacking me across multiple platforms, all over some confusion he had believing I asked to have my thread pinned. I knew that was going to be the result because piracy was rampant and customers were very angry. I would have deleted my thread before allowing it to be pinned because I did not need my time wasted by this psychopath.

No sane person wants to have the only pinned thread in a wildly controversial game, this was the only possible outcome and it was spectacularly stressful when this guy went on a campaign that resulted in bans across multiple services (GitHub, Reddit, Steam) for stuff with no basis in reality. I am not being paid enough to take all the hate for Square Enix / Platinum, they surely employ actual PR people where these basket cases could go vent and leave the little guy giving away a free community patch in peace :-\

[gamerhelligon]

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men..." Sir John Dalberg-Acton


I have seen a game mod have a personal a vendetta against a forum user just because the forum user proved the mod wrong on said forum. I have seen same mod attempt to permanently ban said person twice and both times it was over turned. The said mod went on a rampage and decided that the rules were very rigid and were taken to the extreme and swung the ban hammer like Thor in the middle of an ice giant army. (no it was not me, but I was very active at the time in the forum.)

I have seen a developer ban the entire forum and delete said forum just because they did not like the negative criticism they were getting because they had not updated the game for almost a year and went silent the whole time. The developer even admitted later that it was foolish and restored everything a few months later, but still goes to show that mods can and have abused their powers.

I have seen mods ban people to keep them quiet on "dirty" things that the developer has done in the past. I have been banned from a game hub because the developer said they had to put the game on hold to fulfill a contracted game first, (right after they put out a huge "update" that broke the game), I found out they said the EXACT (word for word) thing on another game that they abandoned and was removed from Steam. What happened when they went back to work on the game? They abandoned it and gave it to someone else to make it.


I was banned (along with many others) because I found out the developer said they had no money left to finish a game, yet it was found they were trying to "hype" another game they were making (still had a coming soon date on the store page). They banned me from the new game forum 10 minutes BEFORE they asked me to be a mod for the (now removed) unfinished game.


It is only human natural, mods are people and people will use power to "nudge" things how they want and can show favoritism to some. Just ask any military person about rank and how they can pull it legally to make your life a living hell.


The whole sad part is that if you use the link to contest the ban, all you get told is that you have to talk to the developers, yet said developers (and mods) have private or locked profiles so you have no way to contact them.

[Matt]

Originalmente postado por Kaldaien:

I will just point you to this thread, which is where most of my problems began:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/524220/discussions/0/1327844097131584424/

I'm not sure why a 3 year old thread is being referenced, but in any case, the thread is gone and never to be seen again.

Also, per the audit history, this thread was never pinned.

[Kaldaien]

I should hope not. If that thread were pinned that would be mindblowing :) That was an attack piece by a user upset that the game included Denuvo and that my mod thread was pinned, the user's entire argument there is I am a danger and should not be associated in any way with Square Enix.

Half of that was correct, my thread should never have been pinned. It was not something I requested and it only made me a target. My thread has been deleted, and it was not easy getting the moderator who pinned it in the first place to delete it. But for as long as it was something I had no control over, pinned and appearing to tie me to Square Enix somehow, I was going to continue having to deal with confused users who connect pinned threads, the person who created the thread and the developer of the game.

Unless I have any role in requesting my thread be pinned, have the option to unpin it (never requested it) or even delete it after it was pinned, this is a problem.

[Kaldaien]

And for what it is worth, the stuff claimed by that user, none of which happened anywhere outside user's head, is the basis for all of my problems.

Despite none of that ever happening, the stuff he invented is what I constantly get banned for. Waves of fraudulent reports of his delusions come in periodicially, I do not fully understand why. I get multiple bans on different game forums simultaneously and then Steam's assinine policy of triggering a system-wide ban kicks in and Customer Service won't do anything about it.

I know about this 1 day, 3 day, 1 week, 3 week, 1 month, 3 month pattern because these bans for things I _emphatically_ did not do keep coming and you guys will not lift a finger. Next ban is for a year, I do not know when it will happen, but it is going to happen and nobody cares. At this point, all I can do is make a complete fool of myself in these threads pleading for someone to take me seriously.

FIX the permabans on my account for things I did not do, I do not know how obnoxious I have to be about this before I get action, but I am not looking forward to the 1 year ban so I will latch onto these threads while I still have posting privileges. Your policy is complete horse crap -- am I getting anywhere? Do I need to be a bit more vulgar?

[CatraGirl]

Originalmente postado por The Giving One:

The OP even said in a post, that they don't care about being banned in multiple game forums, but the issue is the account alert from Valve, limiting the account's functionality overall.

So really, is this about inconsistent moderation, or it is more about Valve's apparent policy to issue the alert once a certain number of bans or other limit has been reached ?

Yes, the moderation led up to the bans, which led up to the account alert, but it just seems like we might be focusing on the wrong thing here.

Sure, the obvious answer is "Don't get banned and you don't have to worry about the account alert". But am just presenting a point to discuss, not trying to show that I agree or disagree with Valve's policy.

I understand why the policy exists, to limit bad actors across multiple forums. So in the end, I guess all one can do is try to work that out with Support, if they fall into that category and are not intentionally going around to just reek havoc in forums on purpose.

Yeah, I think if the issue was "ban evasion" (as in running rampant and trolling in several hubs) then imo it would make sense to only sanction accounts that get several bans in a short amount of time. I mean, maybe that already is the case, I recently got 2 bans (rightly or not, guess I shouldn't have argued with trolls, though I still think especially my 2nd ban was too harsh for that) and that seemed to trigger the whole account thingy.
I mean, it's not like I go out into the forums saying "well, let's go troll today until I'm banned", I think sometimes I just get riled up by actual trolls a bit too much (and imo I think it would be fairer to punish the trolls harder than the replies, but whatever). And then there's some bans I entirely disagree with, which is what leads me to feel the entire system is broken.
I think I did get a few really soft or even wrong bans before, probably deserved a couple too, but I'm pretty sure I'm still in single digits with bans, is there any way to look at my own ban/mod message history anyway? Would be interesting tbh.

[Tito Shivan]

Originalmente postado por SK Kaldaien:

Where are such requests made, out of curiosity? If I could convey to users that having my threads pinned is the last thing in the world I want if I cannot communicate with the developer of the game, problem might go away. But I do not even know where users are making these requests.

Users themselves contact mods or requests for finding the same subject become recurrent enough for the mod team to pin the threads and make finding the stuff people keep asking for easier (and stop creating threads asking for the stuff that's there).

As I understand it seems you have the impression pinning topics is purely a developer/OP triggered decision where it's majorly a community driven request (Explicit or implicit).

It doesn't matter you not 'wanting' for a thread of yours to be pinned, as long as people find the content relevant enough people are still going to go back at it, ask for it, want to have it featured, believe you have a 'special touch' to get things done and be opinionated about you and your content.

But that's nothing to do with getting a thread pinned. It has to do with you being seen as a relevant contributor to the community.

Originalmente postado por SK Kaldaien:

I have never made these requests and still had the misfortune of having my threads pinned. When this happens nobody's offering me a place to request the thread be unpinned.

As I said it works the other way around (That doesn't mean people DO ask their threads to be pinned, just like people asks to be a mod) It's the community the one deeming the content relevant enough to be pinned, not you. The burden of being a worthy contributor is being seen and treated like one. Regardless if you like it or not.

[The Giving One]

Originalmente postado por Zireael:

I think I did get a few really soft or even wrong bans before, probably deserved a couple too, but I'm pretty sure I'm still in single digits with bans, is there any way to look at my own ban/mod message history anyway? Would be interesting tbh.

Pretty sure that you can click on "Community Messages" to the right on each page here and near the top and they should all be there.

[CatraGirl]

Originalmente postado por The Giving One:

Originalmente postado por Zireael:

I think I did get a few really soft or even wrong bans before, probably deserved a couple too, but I'm pretty sure I'm still in single digits with bans, is there any way to look at my own ban/mod message history anyway? Would be interesting tbh.

Pretty sure that you can click on "Community Messages" to the right on each page here and near the top and they should all be there.

Cheers, that's actually pretty helpful. I was looking everywhere on the Steam ui, not the forum.
Looking at my history, I definitely argue with trolls too much, though I still don't understand how I was banned for throwing the same insult back at the troll in the Resident Evil 3 forum and I get banned and he doesn't...
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/790885445899439694/5E2740014E172D85526400C8FB1AAF4F3F21DE0E/
Especially since that guy has been trolling several threads and not just attacking me. I mean, ok, ban me for engaging the troll, whatever, but also ban the troll maybe?

[The Giving One]

@ Zireael

You are welcome, and for what it is worth, from the start of this discussion , I never took your case as one where a user just disrupts various forums on purpose. I took it as it appears to me ; someone that simply has several/more than one ban(s) and/or warning(s) in multiple forums, apparently all game hubs.

From looking at the ban message, it says a member of Steam Support issued the ban. Maybe they only acted on a report about your post and never saw a report on the other user's post, unless you reported that post also, that you say you were replying to.

Also, if the other user had no ban/warning history at all, and you did at that time, that might be another explanation. From what you said, they sounded like a repeat offender, according to what you said you have seen of them before, so that maybe seems improbable, but I don't know.

I am only presenting alternatives, as of course, I don't have all the facts to what I am saying is possible, and there is no way we regular users can see that information, as I am sure you understand.

According to another user that has posted here, it takes 2 active bans to get the account alert. If that is only his case and it can still vary, I am not sure about that either. I wonder how they detect it and issue the account alert. I don't see how it can be automated, but they must have some kind of criteria they go by, that we can't know.

[The Giving One]

@ Zireael

Looking at the posts, and some replies and posts that the user is replying to, it seems there is only one thing to do with a person like that and they will go away...just stop feeding them.

I know that can be hard to do, and I see some others engaging with the user and just basically enabling him/her. Honestly, the posts themselves don't directly break any rules, that I can see that is, and I am guessing that he/she knows that, and just enjoys trolling.

[crunchyfrog]

Originalmente postado por Ēarendel:

Originalmente postado por crunchyfrog:

Wrong. Poor assumption.

I joined this thread some time in, but I'm not referring to the posts before I joined.

EVery time I've asked for evidence, I've got dodges and nothing else just running away.

And you can absolutely share details without naming and shaming, thats obvious stuff. It goes on here all the time, or have you not seen those "my friend just got scammed and he received these messages" posts?

But what you're not getting is I'm not being overly harsh as this is BASIC LOGIC. It's absolute. Assertions MUST be backed up with evidence, or they have to be dismissed. That's epistemology 101.

So, again, if it's there , the floors yours. Attempts to wheedle out of it are not evidence though.

It's not an assumption, you're literally jumping posts not even reading all of mine yet replying. Otherwise you would know that I've already shared plenty of details in the discussion pages back and now you're hounding me to regurgitate what I've already said.

Well, here's the thing. I haven't see anything but more assertions, or inadequate evidence (ie, evidence of a single case that doesn't prove the WHOLE problem). But I can have missed stuff because I'm not perfect.

Instead of comaplining about it, how about you point out exactly WHERE I'm wrong and link me directly to the evidence, as I still can't see it.

I can't say fairer than that can I?

[crunchyfrog]

@Zirael.

There's a massive flaw in your assumption about "fortnite kid" poster. That of assuming nothing happened to him. Unless you have access to his account, you CANNOT know for sure.

Seeing him still posting is no indication that he didn't receive attention. You cannot know if he got a smack on the wrist or anything else.

So please don't use that flawed assumption. I see a lot of users do that and it's a really bad argument. It's not much more than "whataboutism"

[Tito Shivan]

Originalmente postado por Zireael:

I get 7 day ban for getting annoyed at a troll and hitting back and he gets nothing.

And that's where you are wrong.

Just because your reports don't seem to be actioned doesn't mean there's no action taken whatsoever.
You're looking at a room through a keyhole, not getting a full picture of what's inside.

[crunchyfrog]

Originalmente postado por Tito Shivan:

Originalmente postado por Zireael:

I get 7 day ban for getting annoyed at a troll and hitting back and he gets nothing.

And that's where you are wrong.

Just because your reports don't seem to be actioned doesn't mean there's no action taken whatsoever.
You're looking at a room through a keyhole, not getting a full picture of what's inside.

Nicely put Tito.

You always have a better way with words than me, damn you.