nProtect Gameguard issues and problems - Megathread / Player reports and my reasons for not purchasing Helldivers II for the time being

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Oakatusz 7 lutego 2024 o 4:23

nProtect Gameguard issues and problems - Megathread / Player reports and my reasons for not purchasing Helldivers II for the time being

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3190543264

FOREWORD

Welcome to the Gameguard Issues and Problems Documentation Megathread!
I keep updating this thread regularly as a library containing the tremendous amount of reports about issues Gameguard causes which are reported by Helldivers II players themselves.

There are also a lot of complimentary information (links containing previous negative experiences of players with Gameguard in others games, news articles, video evidence about cheaters, etc.) compiled below for ease of access to devs and current/potential players alike.

Many of us potential players want to purchase Helldivers II but not at the cost of putting our systems at risk because of Gameguard. That is why we are having this discussion. To inform people about the proven dangers Gameguard poses for PCs of players and why we still didn't purchase the game. We want to play the game, but not at the cost of endangering our systems. Hence this discussion.

If anyone is interested in detailed evidence about the constant, combined efforts against this thread, people in the discussion and myself since February, 2024, you can read further in these posts below:

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:
- WARNING why to avoid engaging with bait posts

link1

link2

link3

link4[web.archive.org]

link5

link6

link7[web.archive.org]

link16[web.archive.org]

Therefore, with the above in mind I hereby warn everyone not to fail for bait posts which are aimed at inciting fights and emotional reactions. There are some actors in the thread unfortunately who try to stir up arguments. Please be smart and don't fall in the trap of provocation. Ignore it and please don't argue - Stay on topic.

So considering all the above, I encourage everyone who agrees that Gameguard has to be removed or replaced to sign the petition

, and share it with your like-minded fellow gamers to do so as well! You can sign here:

Petition link[www.change.org]

Thank you everyone for your contributions in advance!

Let’s hope that Arrowhead will listen to the community’s negative feedback collected here and will proceed to remove or replace nProtect Gameguard from Helldivers II as soon as possible.

TABLE OF CONTENTS

FOREWORD
General introduction to the discussion. Providing information on the reason for the creation and purpose of the thread. General hints and requests to help maintain a civil discussion.

TABLE OF CONTENTS

I. MAJOR UPDATES
Regularly updated section, where I list major developments relevant to the topic. These include especially serious problems discovered related to Gameguard, updates from the devs on this topic, etc. The latest updates can be found by searching for the

NEW!

indicator I add next to them.

II. SOLUTION PROPOSAL FOR ARROWHEAD INSTEAD OF GAMEGUARD
A solution proposal for Arrowhead devs, which on the one hand could solve the problem of cheaters ruining the progression of honest players while on the other hand it could also reduce the cheaters' incentives to cheat.

III. ORIGINAL POST
The Original Post in the form I created it on the 7th of February, 2024., just before release, to inform and warn players about the potential dangers of Gameguard. Unfortunately my suspicions were warranted.

IV. THE AIM OF THIS DISCUSSION
Detailied statement on the aim of this discussion, request to exchange views in a civil and calm manner, additional post-release info about nProtect Gameguard and the discussions on it.

V. GAMEGUARD ISSUE DOCUMENTATION
Regularly updated collection of issues the 'anti-cheat' nProtect Gameguard casues for people when installed and used next to Helldivers II.

VI. USEFUL POSTS & FURTHER READING
A collection of valuable community contributions and findings, as well as additional posts and links which are all relevant to the topic and could help to better understand the dangers of Gameguard.

I. MAJOR UPDATES

UPDATE 18 – NEW ARROWHEAD CEO ACKNOWLEDGES COLLECTION OF FEEDBACK WHICH INCLUDES PLEA TO REPLACE GAMEGUARD

Today, I am back with a bit of an encouraging update. Youtuber Claysthetics collected a huge amount of community feedback with regards to the latest Helldivers II update, and posted it in the form of a compiled document on the 18th of June, 2024. While focusing on various aspects of the game, this compiled document aslo includes feedback that Gameguard should be replaced. His post on X (Twitter) about this can be viewed through the link below, but keep in mind that the feedback document in question is hosted on Google:

Link to Claysthetics' post on X about community feedback compiled document[x.com]

The importance of this news is that the new Arrowhead CEO, Shams Jorjani acknowledged this thorough feedback document and promised to pass it on to the devteam. The screenshots about his post on social media in reaction to Claysthetics’ post can be read in this screenshot:

Shams Jorjani social media acknowledgement post link[x.com]

Shams Jorjani social media acknowledgement screenshot link[web.archive.org]

Considering, that Shams Jorjani previously expressed his view that interacting with the player community and listening to feedback is important, hopefully this will lead to positive change. He also stressed that in the past he and his colleagues made mistakes during development and did their best to fix such issues. The inclusion of Gameguard is such a mistake in the case of Helldivers II and hopefully the vast amount of continued negative feedback will make Shams Jorjani see, that this ’Gameguard mistake’ should be recitified by it’s removal or replacement.

I hereby want to extend a big thank you to all the community members who contributed to this feedback document and also to Claysthetics who compiled the information together. Just as much as the above newly made feedback document, our Gameguard issues and problems thread here is a community effort – we who contributed did so because we are interested in this game and want it to change for the better. In the case of Gameguard, many of us didn’t even purchase the game because of the potential dangers and risks the software bundled with it poses to our PCs.
Hopefully Shams Jorjani and the devteam at Arrowhead will finally listen to our feedback and proceed to remove or replace Gameguard. Overall, the huge amount of negative feedback and reports detailing problems which are collected here are more than enough to prove that this is the right thing to do.

Here’s hoping that Arrowhead will finally listen to us and get rid of Gameguard one way or another. Fingers crossed.

UPDATE 17 – ARROWHEAD CEO STEPS DOWN, APPOINTS NEW CEO

I am back with an update about the current situation within Arrowhead which could have an impact on Helldivers II and thus the whole Gameguard topic. In the latest news, Arrowhead announced that as of the 22nd of May, 2024 their previous CEO Johan Pilestedt is stepping down and passing on his role of CEO to Shams Jorjani. Shams Jorjani is a games industry veteran with a main focus of business and leadership. Pilestedt said that he made this decision so he can better focus on his role of being a creative lead on Helldivers II. Further details about this announcement can be found in this GamesIndustry(dot)biz article:

GamesIndustry(dot)biz article link[www.gamesindustry.biz]

The new CEO, Shams Jorjani made a Reddit post after 1 week on the job in which he outlined his background, his ideas and his vision as the leader of Arrowhead. His post can be read here:

New Arrowhead CEO Reddit post link

In his post, Jorjani is being open about his past mistakes and how he and his colleagues did their best to fix such arising problems in the past. Furthermore, he underlines the importance of constructivity within gaming communities and how it can help make any game, in this case Helldivers II, better. In his closing thoughts, Jorjani also highlights the importance of well articulated feedback and how he and his colleagues are passing on such feedback to the whole devteam.

With all the above in mind, the listed thoughts of Shams Jorjani indicate that he considers feedback and interacting with the community an important aspect of game development, which is encouraging. Therefore, if anyone can has the opportunity to pass on the feedback collected in the OP by linking it please do so – be it Discord, Reddit, X, Steam or any other platform using which you might reach the devs at Arrowhead. The more they see community members voicing their grievances about Gameguard, the better chance there is for change.

Many wonderful community members helped me to collect and document the tremendous amount of reports about Gameguard issues coming from the Helldivers II community in this thread. It serves as a library of constructive feedback to be used by the current/potential players as well as the developers. Therefore, I really hope that the new CEO of Arrowhead, Shams Jorjani will heed the feedback documented here and push for the removal or replacement of Gameguard.

Fingers crossed this happens as soon as possible.

UPDATE 16 – SONY PSN CONTROVERSY AND A SECOND CONFIRMATION FROM ARROWHEAD ABOUT RAMPANT CHEATER PROBLEM IN HD2

In this update, I am bringing news about yet another Arrowhead community manager conforming that because of the rampant cheater problem Helldivers II suffers from, they are constantly receiving complaints from their customers through their support ticket system. The screenshot from Discord about this can be found through this link:

Compiled discord screenshot link[web.archive.org]

Due to the Arrowhead announcing on the 3rd of May, 2024 that the Sony PSN account linking requirement is being forced on PC players, Helldivers II is in turmoil. Considering the events of the last 2 days and Helldivers II’s rating turning into Overwhelmingly Negative, Arrowhead should seriously consider their next steps if they want to rekindle trust with their community.

On that note, considering how many severe problems Gameguard is causing for the HD2 playerbase and the fact that Arrowhead confirmed yet again that the players are suffering from the cheaters Gameguard does not stop, it would be the perfect time to remove or replace Gameguard. Arrowhead has a golden opportunity to earn back a big chunk of player trust by heeding negative feedback as they said they would and getting rid of Gameguard one way or another.

Arrowhead, please listen to your players and start heeding the feedback – that includes the negative feedback about Gameguard. That’s the only way you can possibly fix this whole situation and start regaining the trust of your community.

UPDATE 15 – THE #1 LARGEST THREAD ON THE HELLDIVERS II STEAM FORUMS

Today, on the 15th of April, 2024., I can proudly announce that as of yesterday, this thread became the #1 largest thread on all the Helldivers II Steam Forums both awards and posts wise.

Even though this thread at the release of the game on the 8th of February, 2024., was moved into the Anti Cheat Subforum, away from the General Discussions so less people can find it, it still became the biggest thread on the HD2 Steam Forums as of yesterday, dwarfing any other threads, even the Official Patch Notes threads, one of which had the most post activity before yesterday.

Considering:

That Arrowhead themselves confirmed on Discord the fact that they received a lot of complaints about Gameguard.
Discord screenshot link[web.archive.org]
That 22.000 people upvoted just this one negative review about Gameguard.
Review link
That 5.400 people signed the petition so far for the removal of Gameguard.
Petition link[www.change.org]
The mountain of reports and complaints about severe Gameguard issues coming from HD2 players I collected in this thread alone, which is now the #1 biggest thread on the HD2 Steam Forums.
The vast number of reports and complaints about Gameguard issues anyone can see daily on Steam, Reddit, Discord and YouTube comment sections as well as videos:

There’s no denying the fact that the Helldivers II community wants nProtect Gameguard removed or replaced.

Therefore, I hereby request Arrowhead to please address the plethora of severe issues Gameguard causes for players and provide the community information if or when it will be removed or replaced.

I personally still want to play your game Arrowhead, because it looks fantastic. However, me and a lot of potential players will not purchase it if Gameguard stays. If you insist on keeping Gameguard to drag your game and your reputation down, please let us know. At this point the community at the very least deserves to know your official stance on this topic.

UPDATE 14 - ARROWHEAD CEO ACKNOWLEDGES GAMEGUARD IS SHUTTING DOWN ACCESSIBILITY SOFTWARE OF DISABLED GAMERS, PROMISES TO LOOK INTO IT

I am fortunately back with a positive update. On the 2nd of April, 2024., Arrowhead CEO and Helldivers II director, Johan Pilestedt finally acknowledged, that Gameguard is shutting down accessibility software which disabled gamers use to enjoy games. In his reply to Steven Spohn, CEO of Able Gamers and a disability advocate, Pilestedt promised to look into this problem:

X(twitter) link

Even the gaming press picked up on his acknowledgement of Gameguard causing problems for disabled gamers:

Gamesradar link[www.gamesradar.com]

Polygon link[www.polygon.com]

Furthermore, the reddit community also took notice of this, and the post about this issue got over 18.000 upvotes as of posting this update:

Reddit post link

I have been warning Arrowhead about Gameguard shutting down such accessibility software since the 18th of February, 2024. - 10 days after release. I added the report of user Chris114, who have reported this exact type of issue Gameguard is causing that early after release. His report can be read below:

Chris114 report link

I have added his report to the OP 1 day after he posted it as part of this update of the OP:

OP update post link

So considering that Arrowhead ackowledged on social media that Gameguard causes such severe issues even for disabled gamers, hopefully they will also acknowledge the mountain of severe issues Gameguard causes for the rest of the Helldivers II playerbase - which list of issue reports unfortunately includes several cases of hardware failure.

Fingers crossed that Arrowhead will remove or replace Gameguard in a timely manner, so all gamers can enjoy Helldivers II without the risk and dangers Gameguard poses for their PCs. Fingers crossed.

We are at a point where Gameguard has a potential to cause data breaches for other companies by shutting down their EDR in addition to the several reports of the hardware failure and data loss it causes for Helldivers II players. Not to mention the insane amount of other kinds of severe problems it causes for players.

Please Arrowhead - remove or replace this nProtect Gameguard as soon as you can or you will do serious damage to your reputation.

I want to consolidate my stance that my aim is against this horrible program called Gameguard, not the devs. I want to play their game because it looks amazing and I can't wait to buy it and jump in as soon as Gameguard is removed or replaced. Hopefully the bugs the devs found at release will be fixed soon and then Arrowhead can use the vastly increased funds they gained to change to a better AC solution. Fingers crossed.

UPDATE 13 - GAMEGUARD IS DLL INJECTING INTO FAN CONTROL SOFTWARE

I am back with another eye opening finding about Gameguard which was captured by a member of the Helldivers II community. Through the usage of Malewarebytes, the captured report shows, that Gameguard is dll injecting into fan control software. The detailed log, the jsons and the ensuing discussion about this can be found and read through these links:

Two expert community members explaining why this type of dll inject is dangerous and risky:

link1

link2

Gameguard doing such reckless and invasive actions towards essential software yet again shows the obvious danger and risk it poses to anyone's PC. Arrowhead confirmed (bottom of the page linked below) already that Gameguard has according to their words 'a particular challenge running alongside antivirus, fan cooling, or streaming video overlay programs' on their own Zendesk website. Furthermore, they even ask players to report which software Gameguard interferes with or blocks:

Arrowhead Zendesk link[web.archive.org]

[/table]
The relevant part is right under where it lists that "Game launch failing due to GameGuard errors".

The sooner Arrowhead removes or replaces Gameguard, the better.

UPDATE 12 - FAKE JOEL, THE CHEATER GAMEMASTER

I am back with another, interesting update. As of the 30th of March, 2024 even a large press outlet, PC Gamer is writing about the rampant cheater problem Helldivers II is suffering from, but it does not stop there unfortunately. As a surreal turn of events, a cheater dubbed Fake Joel is acting like a 'Counter Game Master'. The journalists are comparing him to the official Arrowhead Game Master named Joel, as this cheater is spawning unreleased vehicles and stratagems for HD2 players. This 'Counter Game Master' is actually doing this to promote the cheats which he is selling:

PC Gamer link

This is yet another perfect example how useless Gameguard is at stopping cheaters, who ironically have access to more content than genuine, honest Helldivers II players. A video about this cheater actually gained over 1 million views on Twitter, so a lot of people already saw how useless Gameguard is. The sooner Arrowhead removes or replaces it, the better.

UPDATE 11 - CHEATERS GETTING BOLDER, GAMEGUARD CAUSING BSODS, FREEZES, CTDS AND KILLING WINDOWS EXPLORER.EXE

I am unfortunately back with more concerning info about Gameguard.

For the cheaters running rampant in Helldivers II apparently the ruining of progression for others was not enough for 'amusement' it seems, they got bored already. These filthy cheaters in HD2 started forcing people into their lobbies and joining friends only games with the sole intent to grief genuine, honest players.

Furthermore, these filthy cheaters are also getting bolder - they are using more obvious and sophisticated cheats. Among other things, they are already able to:

teleport,
alter ragdolls,
cause instant deaths,
shoot through the entire map,
disable the enemy AI completely,
alter and even stop the ingame timers,
mess with vault doors so only one player can open it.

Does Gameguard stop any of this? No. Instead, it is so invasive, that it wreaks havoc on the systems of genuine, honest players. Just as an example, reports started to surface on the 20th of March, 2024., that for some HD2 players Gameguard is now killing Windows Explorer.EXE randomly, which causes severe problems. In addition to this, now there are reports containing logs that confirm, that Gameguard causes BSODs as well as game freezes followed by CTDs. This horrible Gameguard on the one hand does not stop cheaters, while on the other hand causes severe problems for honest players - including hardware failures.

As yet another proof of the danger Gameguard poses for anyone's PC, even Pirate Software says that he is only playing HD2 through a second PC as he is not willing to risk installing it on his main PC. He is a former government/private sector security specialist/anti-cheat expert for big companies (for example Blizzard). You can hear his opinion from him in this video:

Pirate Software video link

In addition to this, other Youtubers are also talking about the horrible nature of Gameguard and the issues it causes for players. Here we have Claysthetics and Worth A Buy sharing their thoughts on the topic:

Claysthetics video link

Worth A Buy video link

UPDATE 10 - GAMEGUARD IS ATTACKING AND SHUTTING DOWN EDR SOLUTIONS /INSANE SECURITY RISK!/

PLEASE READ TO SEE IF YOU COULD BE AFFECTED!

I am unfortunately back with yet another, very alarming risk that Gameguard poses for players of Helldivers II. If you are someone who is using corporate PC or laptop for playing HD2 or you have valuable information you don't want to risk, please read on!

It has been brought to my attention, that nPtrotect Gameguard is not just causing severe issues for Helldivers II players in some cases to such extent that causes hardware failure, but it is now proven to be so invasive that it attacks and shuts down EDR solutions. End Point Detect and Response (EDR) Solutions are robust pieces of software used by large IT departments to monitor activity on their devices. Through the usage of EDR IT technicians can see if one of their employee's/customer's computer misses the right security patches, has been compromised in some form, when it last talked on the network, etc.. Gameguard is shutting down EDR applications and by doing so as a matter of fact puts private company information at risk!

As an example: If Gameguard shuts down the EDR on a system of a company that happens to own a hospital chain then the player who installed Helldivers II (and Gameguard with it) on that system created a potential for PHI breaches.

If this situation applies to you and you installed Gameguard on such a system, please get rid of it immediately and notify your IT department about this fact, as this could be a potential breach of security they must be aware of!

The comment of user ramforth who works as an MSP technician and is detailing this topic can be read below:

Początkowo opublikowane przez ramforth:
Would like to chime in here, just because...
I work as an MSP technician, and the immense popularity of this game has lately caused a lot of headache for us. We manage security for both companies and private users, and the upswing of issues related to EDR software and the nProtect Anticheat has been very noticeable.
It turns out that a fair few of the options for good EDR solutions are totally incompatible with nProtect to a degree that nProtect shuts down your entire security suite.
This is actually serious in today's cyber security threat landscape.
So, please, players. Make sure you take necessary precautions while and after playing any game that relies on or uses the nProtect GameGuard.

The ensuing valuable discussion between knowledgable HD2 community members can be read through these links:

To compliment the information above, anyone can watch Pirate Software sharing his thoughts about kernel level anti-cheat below. He is a former government/private sector security specialist/anti-cheat expert for big companies (for example Blizzard).:

Pirate Software short video on the dangers of kernel-level anti-cheat

UPDATE 9 - HACKERS HAVE ACCESS TO MORE CONTENT THAN GENUINE HD2 PLAYERS, MORE PRESS COVERAGE ABOUT HACKERS

As of 5th of March, 2024., more and more reports about hardware failures caused by Gameguard keep popping up. Outside of the fact that Gameguard is now proven yet again to be dangerous, hackers tragicomically have access to upcoming content which genuine, honest players of Helldivers II can't even access yet (unreleased vehicles, weapons, stratagems, etc.). Here is just one example of video proof about these filthy cheaters not just being unbothered by Gameguard, but spawning in mechs before their availability for honest players:

Video of cheaters spawning in mechs before they were available for genuine, honest players

In the gaming press word is already out about the hacker problem Helldivers II is suffering from because of the inefficiency of Gameguard. This article specifically points out the fact, that the same type of cheat (adding of samples) the devs cited as a reason for the adding of an anti-cheat is already widespread in Helldivers II.:

Pushsquare article about HD2 rampant cheater problem[www.pushsquare.com]

Famous youtuber Mutahar also came out with a video about Gameguard in Helldivers II. While he points out he couldn't tell by his analysis if GG is colleting personal data, he agrees that this is the worst possible anti-cheat the devs at Arrowhead could possibly choose. He recommended Battleye and EAC as alternatives for the devs to change to:

Mutahar video

UPDATE 8 - ISSUE OF GAMEGUARD IN HELLDIVERS 2 IN THE PRESS

As of 23rd of February, 2024, the issue of Gameguard in the case of Helldivers II is now in the gaming press:

Pushtotalk press piece[www.pushtotalk.gg]

The title of this damage control press piece is clickbaity and condescending. It also fails to mention the shady history of Gameguard about how many games removed it before because of the plethora of issues it caused for their players. Regardless, in the article even one of the experts asked confirms that Gameguard is invasive and does overreaching, risky stuff . His words, straight from the article:

Riot’s Phillip Koskinas has memories of GameGuard stretching back over a decade. “A version of it has been around since even I was a young lad cooking cheats on MapleStory and Gunz,” he says. (Almost all anti-cheat developers were once cheaters themselves, as they’ll gladly tell you.)

“Back then,” says Koskinas, “GameGuard was actually one of the ‘stronger’ anti-cheats, largely due to their willingness to do crazier stuff. A lot of these techniques are actually common sense or useless now, but back then, it was sort of atypical to be that wide of a watchdog. These days, it has held onto a reputation for being invasive, especially because it takes so much of its anti-cheat actions locally and instantly (closing windows, blocking processes, etc.). "

Roblox anti-cheat lead Clint Sereday was similarly unperturbed. He says that the negative player reviews Helldivers 2 is getting are off the mark.

“This is exactly the same concern as people have with any anti-cheat,” Sereday says. “The concern is a little more exaggerated here because Helldivers 2 is a PVE game. nProtect GameGuard could also be adding to the concern since it is a less-used 3rd party.”

I really hope that Arrowhead Studios finally heeds the feedback provided by current and potential players that obivously point to the direction that Gameguard has to be removed or replaced.

At this point it is widely documented that Gameguard causes severe problems for many players. The sooner Arrowhead devs get rid of Gameguard one way or another, the better as it is just harmful and a potential danger for honest players. It also prevents sales and continues to be a blight on the reputation on the otherwise fantastic looking Helldivers II.

UPDATE 7.3 - ARROWHEAD COMMUNITY MANAGER PROMISES TO ASK THE DEVTEAM ABOUT THEIR STANCE ON GAMEGUARD

NEW!

I am back with a short but encouraging update. Yesterday, on the 8th of April, 2024 an official Arrowhead Community Manager responded to some of the Helldivers II community members who asked on the discord yet again for an official comment from Arrowhead on Gameguard causing severe issues for the playerbase. In his response, the CM said that he will ask the devteam to comment if or when they plan to remove or replace Gameguard. The relevant discussion from discord can be read on the following compiled screenshot:

Compiled discord screenshot link[web.archive.org]

I really hope that finally we will get positive news that Arrowhead will remove or replace Gamguard. Fingers crossed!

UPDATE 7.2 - DEVS ACKNOWLEDGING HUGE NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT GAMEGUARD, MAJOR INTERNAL TALKS ABOUT GAMEGUARD ONGOING

Hey everyone! I am happy to announce that I can post an encouraging update today. The Arrowhead dev, who were helpful before by giving us info about this topic responded to one of the community members who asked him about Gameguard issues on the 14th of March, 2024.

With his answer, now we have confirmation that Arrowhead already received a lot of complaints about Gameguard and that the previously mentioned internal discussions about it are ongoing.

That is a confirmation right there that Arrowhead sees that the community is really fed up with Gameguard and the severe issues it causes and wants it removed or replaced!

Now that we have yet another very encouraging acknowledgement about Gameguard issues from the devs themselves, I truly believe that we are on the right track!

Here's hoping that the devs will be able to get rid of the most severe bugs that remain as soon as possible. If that is done, they should be able to focus on the removal or replacement of Gameguard hopefully.

So I hereby request everyone to spread the word among your fellow gamers - the more signatures on the petition we have and the more the devs see that we want Gameguard removed or replaced, the more chance we have for positive change in this regard.

Let's aim higher with our activity guys and girls, we are on the right track!

You can find the screenshot about this dev answer from Discord here:

Discord screenshot link[web.archive.org]

UPDATE 7.1 - FURTHER ACKOWLEDGEMENT FROM THE DEVS, MAJOR INTERNAL TALKS ABOUT GAMEGUARD INCOMING

I am back with another very encouraging update! The Arrowhead dev, who were already kind before to answer the community's questions about the issues with Gameguard answered some of our fellow players on discord on the 22nd of February, 2024.

In his answer he acknowledged that our big thread here on Steam in the Anticheat subforum as well as our petition on change.org were both refered to Arrowhead internal discussions! That is a big step forward in itself!

With regards to the plethora of documented severe issues including Gameguard causing problems to pheripherals, the dev ensured us that there will be major talks about Gameguard soon internally at Arrowhead "once part of the fires stop roaring" (server issues will be addressed properly).

This is very encouraging! Fingers crossed that the devs will be able to tackle the server issues soon and make the needed decision after about the removal or replacement of Gameguard.

So I hereby request everyone to spread the word among your fellow gamers - the more signatures on the petition we have and the more the devs see that we want Gameguard removed or replaced, the more chance we have for positive change in this regard.

Let's aim higher with our activity guys and gals, we are on the right track!

You can find the compiled screenshot about the answer of the dev here:

Compiled discord screenshot link[web.archive.org]

UPDATE 7 - DEVS STARTED INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS

I have very encouraging news for every current and potential player of Helldivers II!

As of the 17th of February, 2024 It is now confirmed by a dev, that Arrowhead Studios have started an internal discussion about the matter of Gameguard anti-cheat. They also acknowledged that they see that the community indeed considers the matter of the anti-cheat a very hot topic.

I personally really hope, that this internal discussion will be fruitful. Here's hoping that Arrowhead will make the right decision and remove or replace Gameguard once and for all.

You can find the compiled screenshot from the official discord confirming the above information here:

Compiled discord screenshot link[web.archive.org]

UPDATE 6

Considering the fact that I was banned several times now, I would suggest to anyone, who is curious about the reasons for these bans against me to add me here on Steam. I will provide details and evidence about my bans in message by sending screenshotted and linked proof. With that in mind:

I hereby want to ask everyone to not channel their anger at Arrowhead, but rather at Gameguard. The game they made is the reason we are all here - so let's keep our focus on the matter at hand. This malicious piece of software called nProtect Gameguard needs to be removed or replaced so we can enjoy the seemingly very fun product that the Arrowhead guys made. That is why I created this thread in the first place. I want to inform people about the risky piece of software bundled with it that makes the game a non-purchase for me until it is removed - This will remain my focus moving forward. Hopefully, the server issues will be fixed and then Arrowhead can use the vastly increased funds they gained to change to a better AC solution.

I want to consolidate my stance that my aim is against this horrible program called Gameguard, not the devs. I want to play their game because it looks cool.

We already have multiple reports of the worst possible cases I feared that will happen - hardware failure and data loss. Please Arrowhead - remove or replace this nProtect Gameguard as soon as you can or you will do serious damage to your reputation.

UPDATE 5 - WARNING TO ALL PLAYERS

As of the 16th of February, 2024, the issues caused by Gameguard for Helldivers II players got so bad, that I am genuinely concerned for the safety of their hardware. The number of reports about Blue Screens of Death, CTDs, hard crashes of Operating Systems, and other hardver level issues are popping up at such an alarming rate, that I can hardly keep up just listing them here. As of the 19th of February, 2024 reports of hardware failures and data loss caused by gameguard started to surface. Please seriously consider uninstalling and avoiding Helldivers II until Gameguard is removed or replaced as it has serious potential to do actual harm to your system.

UPDATE 4 - PETITION

User Twisted Kindness started a petition on Change.org on the 11th of February, 2024., to inspire the developers to remove this dangerous Gameguard from Helldivers II. If you have a moment, please sign it here and share it with your fellow gamers so they sign it too:

Petition link[www.change.org]

Steam threads about the petition above which were both closed due to the activity of certain actors I warned about in the FOREWORD:

Closed Petition thread 1

Closed Petition thread 2

UPDATE 3

We have done it - We are now ahead of the official developer thread both comments and awards wise in this Anticheat subforum. At this point there is no denying what the community's wish is:

-> Gameguard has to go!

UPDATE 2 - GAMEGUARD ISSUE DOCUMENTATION

(found below OP, UP1) : Collection of issues the 'anti-cheat' nProtect Gameguard casues for people when installed and used next to Helldivers II. If you have something to add, send it to me or post it here in the thread. If you do so, please provide as much information as possible.

UPDATE 1- THE AIM OF THIS DISCUSSION

(found below OP) : Statement on the aim of this discussion, request to exchange views in a civil and calm manner, additional post-release info about nProtect Gameguard and the discussions on it.

II. SOLUTION PROPOSAL FOR ARROWHEAD INSTEAD OF GAMEGUARD

I was saying since the 7th of February, 2024., the day I posted this thread that the devs should shift to a server side sanity check and/or VAC based solution instead of Gameguard.
Gameguard might have been cheaper, but now that shouldn't be a factor in this equation considering the massive success of the game and the vastly increased funds it generated for Arrowhead. AH already started hiring new devs using these new funds, which is encouraging - I really hope that those people include ones who will be able to help with the removal or replacement of Gameguard.

For competitive games, finding a workable anti-cheat solution is indeed a bigger challenge, but in the case of Helldivers II we are talking about a PVE co-op shooter. Considering that, Deep Rock Galactic, which is also a PVE co-op shooter, doesn't even have an anti-cheat, but rather gives the players nice tools against cheaters. The host can simply kick and if he does, the person kicked will be banned from joining their lobby for a set time period. They also give a fantastic tool if cheaters somehow manage to ruin progression - a save rollback tool which basically repairs the saves of players to undo the damage cheaters may do.
In addition to this, DRG has mod support, which let anyone who wanna mod and cheat go on a different branch of the game, so that perfectly directs these kinds of players away from the main branch where genuine, honest players can have fun unbothered.
I have been playing that game since 2018 and for 1.400+ hours. During that time I only encountered 5-6 cheaters overall, whom I swiftly kicked and that was the end of the story. The other solutions I mentioned above work perfectly for the playerbase.

Therefore, I really hope that instead of Gameguard, Arrowhead will in a timely manner implement something like the system of DRG or switch to a server side solution. The benefits of such a solution would be manifold:
- Much less invasive for the client side.
- Much less risk for the client's PC and general security.
- Unlike Gameguard, a server side sanity check based solution would be able to stop cheaters from ruining the progress of players as it would simply not allow certain thresholds of rewards to be overstepped by the filthy cheater, as the server would not allow that progress to be saved.
- The incentive for cheat developers would decrease tremendously, as they simply wouldn't be able to save their cheated progress, as it would prevent progressing what is possible and is allowed by the server side checks.
- Machine learning, as expert user Salt Engineer pointed out, could indeed be utilised to more efficiently set the different thresholds upon the reaching of which the server would tag suspicious actors.
- If they would pair it with support for a modded branch or private branch like DRG does, that would direct modders and cheaters away from the main brach where honest players could have fun with much less chance to be bothered by these people.

I really hope that we will see something like the above happen for Helldivers II in a timely manner. Fingers crossed Arrowhead will heed our feedback and remove or replace Gameguard as soon as they can. Now they even have a solution proposal as part of this thread.

III. ORIGINAL POST

This post was inspired by a discussion I had with a Steam user who encouraged me to list my reasons and try to inform others why I am avoiding the purchase of Helldivers II for the time being for the sole reason of nProtect Gameguard. Below, I will try to do so to the best of my ability.

The first source I found on this issue was made by Mutahar on the channel SomeOrdinaryGamers, it can be found here:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=kEXYDCD1VUo

He touched upon the bumpy road the game Undecember suffered through because of Gameguard. He lists the sources in the video, two of which are the following:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1549250/discussions/0/3388420307302919948/

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1549250/view/6456498378615365698

He also provides video example that when you try to stop this program from touching your system with the usage of a virtual machine, it will boot you from the game - we don't know yet if this is the case for Helldivers II as well, but my guess would be that it will be.

As anyone can see on the reviews of Undecember, the controversial use of Gameguard left it's mark on it and it still sits on "Mixed". Even though the devs provided an uninstaller for the program, that is far from enough in my opinion - it should have been there from the beginning and the dangers should have been disclosed for all players. In the case of Helldivers II, the devs said that it would be uninstalled with the game, but I am personally done with taking the word of any devteam at facevalue anymore - got burned far too much before with other games.

There are a few other sources I found with regards to the dodgy nature of Gameguard:

https://www.gamepressure.com/newsroom/undecember-with-hidden-rootkit-in-game-files/zf4afd

https://www.file.net/process/npptnt2.sys.html

https://www.sevenforums.com/bsod-help-support/301712-bsod-playing-game-uses-gameguard.html

https://www.starstable.com/article/12233

https://youtube.com/watch?v=XXBtMRRE5t4

https://community.brave.com/t/brave-cannot-load-webpages-when-nprotect-gameguard-is-running/134348

https://forums.malwarebytes.com/topic/24934-nprotect-gameguard-rootkit-threat/?sfw=pass1707303806

https://forums.malwarebytes.com/topic/168401-solved-conflict-with-nprotect-gameguard-game-engine/

https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/403448/nprotect-gameguard-is-bad-news-list-of-games-its-on-updated-03-03-16

In addition to those issues listed above, it is a fact that any similar program you install at a kernel level is a threat vector that can be used to break the security of your system.

Just as an example:
https://www.pcgamer.com/ransomware-abuses-genshin-impacts-kernel-mode-anti-cheat-to-bypass-antivirus-protection/

If someone would gain such a level of access through Gameguard, they could mess at the innermost level of your system and do damage quick - that is why I personally avoid similar programs like the plague. There are a LOT of other sources and complaints about this anti-cheat on Steam, Reddit and various other Forums of games which utilize GG in addition to the sources provided above. The combination of all these convinced me to keep my distance for the time being.

In my opinion this whole situation and community uproar could have been avoided if Arrowhead chose a different anti-cheat instead of Gameguard. They could have just used Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC) - it is a trustworthy solution and works pretty well. Not to mention the fact that the whole problem of these cursed cheaters ruining the experience of others can be mitigated by server side sanity checks and backup saves. In addition to this, the host of a game should also be able to kick cheaters and prevent their malicious activity altogether - this perfectly works in P2P co-op games like Deep Rock Galactic.

So considering all the above, I will be waiting. Those who jump in immediately will test this game and anti-cheat for me and for everyone who is taking the more careful approach.

My hope is that this Gameguard will be replaced with another anti-cheat approach as soon as possible and I can jump in too with you guys. I wish the best for Helldivers II as the concept of the game is very appealing to me - that is why I still keep following it's official Steam forum.

Here's hoping Arrowhead will change their mind, because if they replace this anti-cheat with something more trustworthy, many of us hesitant potential players would join the fight for Super Earth. I personally would like to take a big sip of my Liber-Tea as soon as possible.

IV. THE AIM OF THIS DISCUSSION

Just to clear things up moving forward:

We are here to have a civil discussion about a genuine security concern that affects all players. A valve mod locked this thread briefly for like 30 minutes just now (13th of February, 2024), because a guy started arguing here. At least he saw his mistake and banned him so we can continue discussing the issue at hand - kudos to him.

Therefore, I hereby ask everyone to remain civil and discuss the issue at hand in a calm manner to avoid any situation like this moving forward.

This thread and a lot of others which were ringing alarmbells about the nProtect Gameguard got moved into this subforum, away from the main discussion and therefore the eyes of most players, who usually only look at the general discussion. Everyone could see this happening - these threads are still away form the main discussion.

My thread was (and still is) the biggest out of these and I put a lot of time and effort into my research just for the good of this community. When the devs started the damage control, the 50+ awards which were on it got removed somehow. You can see user sharkrkk confirming the removal of awards in comment #141. It can be seen here:

Początkowo opublikowane przez sharkrkk:
Początkowo opublikowane przez Oakatusz:
So... Considering that the devs are trying to bury this thread by removing this thread from the mainstream discussion and at the same time they removed the 50+ awards which were on it... They just confirmed the suspicions others listed.

I am so glad I did not purchased this game. Considering their blatant censorship, now I will avoid it altogether.
Yeah bro, I confirm I also saw you had a lot more community rewards, and they are all gone all of a sudden. It is very unfortunate they took this path. The devs are in full panic mode and are just doing damage control. Hope the reviews will eventually be a wake up call for them, and they will listen to the community and make the game more accessible and also fix the technical problems.

This is important because it took away from the significance and impact this thread has - the more awards, the more people looking at it. The fact that they did this is shady in itself.

At this point, 5 days since launch it is now proven that this horrible 'anti-cheat', Gameguard:
- does not stop cheaters, they were in the game on day 1.
- causes problems to 1 in every 150 players. This was confirmed by the devteam themselves. That number is horrible in itself.
- causes Blue Screens of Death.
- stops random applications and even drivers from running on your system.
- makes players experience problems which basically bricks their Operating Systems because of this 'anti-cheat'.

All info is there, we were right about our suspicions with regards to nProtect Gameguard. It is useless and only causes damage, headache and security risk for honest, paying customers.

Yet some people still question us, potential and current players who are simply concerned about their security because of this shady software. For me this approach is unfathomable and completely unjustifiable after all can see the problematic nature of this nProtect Gameguard.

We are here in this thread to basically try to make more sales for Arrowhead by providing genuine feedback which they said they would heed. The extra sales will roll in as soon as they remove or replace this horrible anti-cheat. Please devs - get on it as soon as possible.

WE WANT TO PLAY THE GAME. JUST NOT AT THE COST OF COMPRIMISING OUR SYSTEMS.

V. GAMEGUARD ISSUE DOCUMENTATION

The following issues have arisen so far because of the use of nProtect Gameguard, proving that it is not just useless, but works to the detriment of honest, paying customers:

NEW!

The latest additions to this section can be read in this post:

Latest OP update link1

Latest OP update link2

Video evidence and reports about cheaters which Gameguard does not stop at all.

These blatant cheaters have been in the game since right after release. Their numbers and the severity of the cheats they use keep increasing and yet Gameguard is not stopping them. Many of these filthy cheaters use the exact same type of cheat (adding of samples and ruining the progression of genuine players) the devs said was the reason for adding an anti-cheat.

link - Video evidence of blatant cheaters[web.archive.org]

link - Video evidence of blatant cheaters firing Recoilless as a mi♥♥♥un[web.archive.org]

link - video evidence of cheaters manipulating game systems and timers[web.archive.org]

link - Video evidence of blatant cheaters unbothered by Gameguard

link - video evidence of blatant cheaters again

link - blatant cheaters caught on video yet again

link – and again, blatant cheaters caught on video

link – another video recording of blatant cheaters

link – and another video recording of blatant cheaters

link – yet another video recording of blatant cheaters

link118[old.reddit.com]

First report of cheaters selling SERVICES for Helldivers II on the 14th of February, 2024., only 6 days after release:

link1

Arrowhead devteam themselves already confirmed that Gameguard causes issues to 1 in every 150 players when they can't even start the game. Such issues, when Gameguard is not installing/updating/initiating itself, thus barring players from even starting the game, can be found below:

Arrowhead Zendesk link, devs confirming GG causing these issues[web.archive.org]

link61[steamcommunity.com]

The negative impact of Gameguard on Helldivers II now even shows on the top rated reviews as well. For example this review of the game garnered more than 22.000 helpful votes:

Review link

Now we have reports a serious negative impact, possible bricking of one Lenovo Legion 7 laptop and at least 3 PCs:

Report from discord, that Gameguard most likely fried an RTX3060ti GPU:

link1[web.archive.org]

Players already reported hardware failures caused by Gameguard. Below are several reports about SSD failures as well as data loss:

link6[www.change.org]

A detailed report from a player who is seeing Gameguard related insane writing bursts to his hard disks which are part of a RAID array. This could be very likely be related to the previous reports of Gameguard bricking SSDs:

link1

One user reported, that his GFX card keeps dying on him most likely because of Gameguard:

link1

link2

Yet another report listing that for the user Gameguard causes severe issues on a driver level, while for another user it caused a GPU to fail:

link1

Another report of hardware failure caused by Gameguard - This time the player suffered a bricked RAM. Gameguard also ruined his Windows install which therefore needed to be reinstalled from scratch:

link1

Another alarming report of the combination of memory leaks and cascading failures caused by Gameguard leading to the PC of the player seizing up and dying:

link1

link2

Severe Gameguard related issues leading to black screens and PC hard crashes which are happening on a brand new PC that only has Steam, Discord, and Helldivers II + Gameguard installed on it. Doesn't get any more cut and dry than this:

link1

One user reported data loss on 2 different PCs, both times Steam related data on the HDDs got wiped:

link1

First report of a buffer attack using Gameguard as the attack vector which a player suffered in a public game:

link1

Player Koza experienced multiple PC crashes, shutdowns, BSODs and he even had to reset their BIOS because of Gameguard. He had to take out the motherboard battery and put it in again to entirely reset the BIOS just for his pc to turn on again - All because of Gameguard wreaking havoc on his PC:

link1

link2

GameGuard causing an overheat issue requiring reinstall:

link1

Gameguard was caught killing Windows Explorer.EXE, causing severe problems for some HD2 players:

link1

link2

Detailed confirmation that Gameguard is also the culprit behind the issue reports, where HD2 just freezes and then CTDs without any error messages:

link1

Apparently even ASIO Link Pro drivers aren't whitelisted by Gameguard, which again shows the incompetency or negligence going on in the company nProtect who is behind this horrible piece of software:

link1

Famous youtuber Mutahar from the SomeOrdinaryGamers channel came out with a video about Gameguard in Helldivers II. While he points out he couldn't tell by his analysis if GG is colleting personal data, he agrees that this is the worst possible anti-cheat the devs at Arrowhead could possibly choose. He recommended Battleye and EAC as alternatives that the devs change to:

Mutahar video

In the gaming press the word is already out about the cheater problem Helldivers II is suffering from. This article is specifically points out the fact, that the same type of cheat (adding of samples) the devs used as a reason for the adding of an anti-cheat is already widespread in Helldivers II already. This further proves that Gameguard is not just dangerous, but is useless in it's job:

Pushsquare article[www.pushsquare.com]

Another hardware failure caused by Gameguard. User Key lost his GPU and MOBO, both needs to be replaced:

link1

More reports about potential hardware damage and Gameguard wreaking havoc among the applications of Helldivers II players:

link1

link2

Reports about Gameguard causing data loss and corruption of Windows installations:

link1

link2

Report about Gameguard bricking a Windows OS through corrupting essential drivers:

Very detailed report by how Gameguard potentially causes GPU overheating + crashing + system instability by user Fate

link1

Multiple reports started to surface about HDD writing errors:

link1

link2

link3

Report by user bellaiscut about BSODs caused by Gameguard which eventually resulted in hardware degradation:

link1

Another report of hardware degradation caused by Gameguard:

link1

Just like the user above, this user reports a similar BSOD chain which resulted in hardware degradation:

link1

Report about a hard crash which resulted in a busted Motherboard:

link1

Report of GPU driver timeout caused by Gameguard and difficulty to get rid of Gameguard after the problems started to occur:

link1

link2

Report from a HD2 player who installed the game and Gameguard with it on a fresh installation of Windows with nothing else on it. Gameguard causes his PC to BSOD and he experiences Memory and CPU interconnect errors. Gameguard also tried to randomly open his browser too:

link1[web.archive.org]

Another player reports hard PC lock-ups and the logs point towards Gameguard wreaking havoc on the kernel-level:

link1

Report about Gameguard causing various, persistent hardware issues as well as causing BSODs:

link1[web.archive.org]

Gameguard is not shutting down after Helldivers II is closed and prevents this player from shutting down his PC. When this happens to him, the only way to shut down the PC is to do a hard power down:

link1

Report of a bricked RAM and a ruined Windows installation which had to be reinstalled after getting a lot of BSODs:

link1

The whitelisting of INCA Internet is so efficient, that Gameguard is even killing Windows Outlook.exe…The report even includes the Eventviewer log confirming this:

link1

Another report of a corrupted Windows installation. This player was forced to do a complete restoration of his system because of Gameguard:

link1

link2

Yet another report about a corrupted Windows installation due to Gameguard.

link1

And another report of Gameguard corrupting a Windows installation:

link1

Report of Gameguard causing BSODs with logs included:

link1

A report of an SSD nearly bricked by Gameguard:

link1

A new type of Gameguard error, "Error Code: 1002" have been reported, which crashes Helldivers II:

link1

One user reports that Gameguard is killing his internet and causes black screens upon loading. He can hardly ever play the game because of these issues:

link1

After having Gameguard installed for a longer time since launch, this user had the black screen freeze issues it was causing in HD2 spread to other software, which now has the same issues. In addition to those issues, Gameguard corrupted the OS of this user to such a degree, that the PC keeps shutting down randomly:

link1

link2

link3

Collection of reports in this thread about Gameguard turning off USB devices and crashing drivers:

link1

Yet another report about Gameguard causing CTDs and BSODs:

link1[web.archive.org]

Yet another report about a combination of severe issues Gameguard causes for a player which eventually pushed him to refund the game:

link1

A report about Gameguard turning off CPU/case fans on one of the players' PC:

link1

Gameguard randomly opening Microsoft Mail on Windows 11:

link1

User Kaii confirming after testing that Gameguard is responsible for severe issues causing freezing an crashing on his computer:

link1[web.archive.org]

Detailed post with log included made by user IndianaJones about a confirmed sound driver crash because of Gameguard:

link1

Heavily censored screenshot as evidence, that just one type of these pathatic, filthy cheats have been downloaded nearly 25.000 times until the 21st of February, 2024. Today it must be several times more. Perfect example which again proves how useless Gameguard is at stopping cheaters:

link1[web.archive.org]

Hackers seemingly have access to new content earlier than honest customers. They are spawning in mechs which are not even available yet to normal, honest players. Gameguard is useless as always in stopping them:

link1

First reports of hackers crashing the game of a player to desktop, just before extracting. Very similar to what was happening in GTA Online before:

link1

link2

Even simple nexus mods can circumvent Gameguard it is so useless:

link1

link2

link3

There are so many cheaters ingame, that user dadbodftw already created a subreddit to start blacklisting cheaters... :

link1

Gameguard is useless against hackers on such a level, that these filthy hackers are now able to force honest players into lobbies. The victims of such hackers have to crash their games to quit from such hacker lobbies:

link1

Yet another report about hackers forcing honest players into lobbies with themselves, then griefing them:

link1

User Ryan555 had to resort to a full system wipe to undo the damage Gameguard did to his computer, resulting in total data loss:

link1

link2

link3

Another complaint about cheaters ingame with video evidence of said cheaters that are now able to fly around ingame at high speeds. Gameguard does not stop them from doing this as it is completely useless:

link1 - video evidence of cheaters

An alarming number of people are now reporting Gameguard causing horrible experiences with their gaming PCs (Blue Screen of Death, Crash to Desktop, hard crashing or even bricking of the Operating System, especially bad problems on AMD hardware confirmed by devs, pheripherals which stop working because GG wreaks havoc among drivers, PCs freezing up, general system instability, etc.):

link72[www.change.org]

link82[www.change.org]

link92[www.change.org]

link200[www.change.org]

One user reported, that Gameguard disabled the cooling of his RIG, and could have bricked it if he didn't notice it in the BIOS:

link1

One user reported, that he refunded the game because not only did Gameguard hinder his system performance, and left residue files behind after uninstalling, it even tried to reinstall itself before it got eliminated by anti-virus:

link1

Gameguard hogging up performance:

link1

link2

One user reported his Steam Deck turning off when disbanding team after a mission:

link1

Gameguard is not uninstalling properly, leaves residue files behind, one user experimented and found that this program sometimes does not stop running after exiting the game and keeps running, which he was able to view in the Task Manager. Now two players reported this - The second user reporting found that the only way he can stop GG from running is to restart the whole PC:

GameGuard does not shutdown when game is force shutdown due to freezing:

link1

Another report of Gameguard not turning off after Helldivers II is closed:

link1

Gameguard fails to update and intrusively opens browser for one user, no suggested solutions on their page works in getting rid of it.

link1

Gameguard is altering non-gaming related processes:

link1

Gameguard is shutting down well known applications (Steam, Discord, Matrix, etc.):

link8[www.change.org]

Gameguard is shutting down accessibility application which are mostly used by disabled gamers:

Gameguard is attacking/blocking VPN applications:

link1

link2

Gameguard stopping players from playing with various messages "Error Code: -1/14/107/110/111/113/114/115/116/117/120/124/153/170/180/255/340/350/360/361/1000/1002/1013/1014 or Fatal Error":

link21[www.sarkariexam.com]

When trying to solve an update related issue like the ones listed in the previous subsection, by redownloading Gameguard through a VPN, it causes a Fatal Error:

link1

A new type of Gameguard error, which upon happening, states that ’Gameguard was closed from the outside’ and proceeds to crash the game:

link1

Gameguard processes refuse to be terminated and keep running. Therfore, this user can’t uninstall it. Restarting the PC does not help:

link1

Gameguard triggering firewall rules due to the IP addresses they use. If you are doing any sort of DNS typecasting this game may not work at all due to the anti-cheat:

link1

One user reports, that 2 Gameguard files are becoming corrupted repeatedly, which stops him from matchmaking and joining any players:

link1

VI. USEFUL POSTS & FURTHER READING

A non-conclusive collection of articles from a variety of gaming press outlets talking about Gameguard, the issues it causes for HD2 players the cheaters it does not stop:

On the 2nd of April, 2024., Arrowhead CEO and Helldivers II director, Johan Pilestedt acknowledged, that Gameguard is killing the accessibility software of disabled gamers, thus barring them from even playing the game. In his reply to Steven Spohn, CEO of Able Gamers and a disability advocate, Pilestedt promised to look into this problem:

Twitter link

The gaming press picked up on this story, examples below:

Polygon link[www.polygon.com]

Gamesradar link[www.gamesradar.com]

Gameguard is so useless at stopping cheaters to such a degree, that there's a cheater 'game master', who PC Gamer journalists even interviewed. That cheater and many others are also selling their services, to profit on the uselessness of Gameguard:

PC Gamer link

IGN link

More gaming press articles about Gameguard being useless in stopping cheaters, which results in HD2 suffering from a rampant cheater problem:

link1

link2[www.pushsquare.com]

link3

link4[fandomwire.com]

link5[www.msn.com]

link6[www.gamepur.com]

Press articles about the backlash from the HD2 playerbase in response to the inclusion of Gameguard, and why it is a bad choice of an AC which should be replaced:

link1[screenrant.com]

link2[thegamingwatcher.com]

link3[medium.com]

link4[gadgetmates.com]

link5[vpnoverview.com]

link6[www.levelpush.com]

link7[www.thevectornews.com]

link8[gamingbolt.com]

link9[vip-develop.gamepur.com]

Gaming press articles about Gameguard stopping players from playing HD2 by throwing errors and false positives:

link1[www.thecpuguide.com]

link2[keyrant.tech]

link3[www.breakflip.com]

link4[www.altchar.com]

link5[estnn.com]

link6[n4g.com]

link7[dotesports.com]

link8[fixrant.com]

link9[www.thecpuguide.com]

link10[n4g.com]

link11[gaminghybrid.com]

link12[www.msn.com]

link13[n4g.com]

link14[gaminghybrid.com]

link15[pupuweb.com]

link16[www.pcinvasion.com]

link17[www.lagofast.com]

link18[www.sportskeeda.com]

link19[gamingacharya.com]

link20[windowsreport.com]

link21[digistatement.com]

link22[gamertweak.com]

link23[thenaturehero.com]

link24[www.getdroidtips.com]

link25[dotesports.com]

link26[hard-drive.net]

link27[twinfinite.net]

link28[uniforumtz.com]

link29[gamertweak.com]

link30[www.naguide.com]

link31[www.pcinvasion.com]

link32[pupuweb.com]

link33[updatecrazy.com]

link34[www.pcgamesn.com]

link35[gameplay.tips]

link36[gamethings.pro]

link37[esports.gg]

The case of Gameguard and Helldivers 2 already got attention in the 'privacy' subreddit:

link1

Detailed write-up about the cheater issue and the uselessness of Gameguard by user awolcz:

link1

Excellent write-up by user Thomas Anderson as an answer to the pinned developer post in this subforum about Gameguard:

link1

Very nice write-up about the elevated dangers of nProtect Gameguard among kernel-level anti-cheats by user Pekora:

link1

Masterful, technical write-up by expert user Salt Engineer on the topic of Gameguard from different perspectives, that include - incentives for malicious actors to explore potential vulnerabilities, complaints in Korean about GG, CVE hits in comparison with other software, explaining why a comparison between kernel-level software and OSs are not a viable. In the second and third posts he mentions the vulnerabilites of different game engines and pinpoints the current trend of malicious actors specifically targeting endpoint detection and protection clients - In the case of Helldivers II, Gameguard. He also touches upon iOS vulnerabilites:

link1

link2

link3

Exper user Salt Engineer listing his eye opening findings about how Gameguard transmits data to several different recipients from the PCs of HD2 players:

link1

Expert user Salt Engineer explaining why anti-virus soltions can easily detect Gameguard as maleware due to it’s invasive capabilities:

link1

After thorough testing and examination, expert user Salt Engineer proved how Gameguard can hook into other programs without any problems. The danger of this is obvious. In addition to this, he also confirmed that Gameguard leaves residue files behind after uninstalling. So if you're going to remove the game, and in particular GameGuard, be prepared for manual removal. His post with logged evidence included can be found here:

link1

link2

Stellar write-up and discussion between expert users Salt Engineer and LongTimeAgo on the reasons why the havoc that Gameguard wreaks on the systems of HD2 players is nearly impossible to trace:

link1

link2

Expert user Salt Engineer explains why INCA Internet (the developer team behind) is not trustworthy compared to other competitors in the industry. He provides information how they refuse to do their due diligence since they have been on the market:

link1

Expert user Salt Engineer explains why kernel-level anti-cheat (in this case Gameguard) is the most likely culprit behind all the severe issues and not the game engine:

link1

Expert user Salt Engineer disclosing his findings after examining the inner workings of Gameguard a bit closer. He confirms that it can terminate processes in addition to it sending some kind of data the nature of which he wasn't able to exactly pinpoint. The irony of the situation is, that while Helldivers II wasn't running and Gameguard wasn't supposed to run either, the tools Salt Engineer used closed magically during the examination he was conducting out of the blue...So most likely a Gameguard process is running hidden in the background even though the game is not running:

link1

Expert user Salt Engineer with the usage of AI determined the approximate tremendous number of combinations of hardware and software configurations that would be necessary to keep in mind for an anti-cheat software like Gameguard. His Conclusions and the ensuing valuable discussion on it can be found below:

Fantastic write-up by user Osama Bin Trippin about the dangers of nProtect Gameguard:

link1

Informative post by user RomanticWolf about the horrible experience of players in another game which had Gameguard bundled with it in the past

link1

Marvelous write-up by expert user LongTimeAgo about why Gameguards handywork is not showing up in logs and why it is not suitable for an international market, as it's main focus is in Asia:

link1

Excellent research and well structured write-up about the dangers of Gameguard by reddit user grim2111:

link1

Various different and thorough tests and scans done on Gameguard by user Havok:

Excellent write-up about kernel level software and it's dangers by user Flora:

link1

Fantastic write-up by user Quake about why Gameguard is barring many of potential players from purchasing Helldivers II:

link1

Amazing post about the dangers of kernel level anti-cheats by expert user Salt Engineer:

link1

Well structured write-up by user insertooffhere about why he won't purchase Helldivers II until Gameguard is removed or replaced:

link1

Fantastic write-up by expert user LongTimeAgo comparing why EAC is miles safer to install than Gameguard:

link1

Marvelous and very detailed write-up about the dangers of kernel level software by user Flora:

link1

Very detailed and amazing write-up and troubleshooting guide by user PencilPursuer which could potentially help players who have various problems with Helldivers II which are related to hardware:

link1

Marvelous write-up by expert user Salt Engineer about how software can damage hardware in addition to the dangers of kernel level software poses for the systems of PC owners:

link1

Useful posts by user MDK, who continues to exprience severe issues caused by Gameguard, which he tries to solve to no avail so far:

Found by user Sgt.Parker, this source from 2015 confirms that Gameguard can conflict with Avast and cause BSODs:

link1[forum.avast.com]

Found by user Sgt.Parker, this source from 2006 provides information about the dangers of Gameguard as well as in the comments anyone can read what type of problems it was causing for the players of Maplestory which had Gameguard bundled with it back then. Maplestory devs removed Gameguard eventually because of player backlash. Helldivers II players are experiencing the exact types of severe problems now, which Gameguard was causing for players back in 2006:

link1[maplestory.livejournal.com]

Fantastic post by user Kleo providing a valuable perspective on the bad history of Gameguard as well as video evidence about cheaters unbothered by Gameguard:

link1

Post about how useless Gameguard was in stopping hackers back in 2013 in the game Phantasy Star Online 2:

link1

Ostatnio edytowany przez: Oakatusz; 6 kwietnia o 11:49

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Wyświetlanie 3,376-3,390 z 6,337 komentarzy

PETROL SNIFFER posiada HELLDIVERS™ 2

3 kwietnia 2024 o 5:06

gamegaurd caught steven lacking

#3376

Thomas Anderson 3 kwietnia 2024 o 7:42

Początkowo opublikowane przez Salt Engineer:
During the log4j fun, I had to actively argue against using fast moving public sources for similar reasons. Unknown developer involvement, and a time constraint precluding thorough review.

I feel this. I had to advise our corporation to shut down the primary EMR for dozens of sites because of the risk... which, thankfully, they listened to. (Yes, we have had an EMR that was using a java applet in concert with IE at the time. Yes. You read that right... and probably gives you insight into why I have such a hard line stance.) I'll leave you to imagine the party times that followed that decision. Because whatever you're imagining is most likely exactly right.

Also:

I haven't caught up on the topic since yesterday, but I just wanted to put this one to bed:

"Oak's reports don't prove anything."
"Oak's topic is just people reporting things."
"Oak's list of links is purely circumstantial."
"Oak's OP cannot be verified."

Ok, ignoring the fact that there are links with verification in the OP, please listen:

Unverified reporting, circumstantial evidence is still proof. People have gone to jail on witness testimony alone. We see people getting convicted on circumstantial evidence alone every day on TV now.

Yes, a single report does carry doubt. And when you have 2 witnesses testifying to the same thing, even without proof, their testimony is considered stronger evidence. What a jury has to decide is if the witnesses are telling the truth. 1 person can lie or remember wrong. 2 people can collude to lie, but they're not likely to misremember the same wrong thing. So the more witnesses you have telling the same story, the stronger your case.

Now the question:

How many 'witnesses' does Oak have testifying toward the idea that GameGuard (to put it lightly) may cause some issues? How many expert witnesses need to say that nPGG carries a real risk with it?

You are still free to doubt the multiple witness testimonies, but with each day and each report, Oak's case is only strengthened - not diminished.

Ostatnio edytowany przez: Thomas Anderson; 3 kwietnia 2024 o 8:05

#3377

Sgt.Parker posiada HELLDIVERS™ 2

3 kwietnia 2024 o 9:05

Początkowo opublikowane przez Calv:
When the witness testimony consists of "I didn't see the robbery or the robber, but it was definitely that man over there", the number of them doesn't really matter.

Still does, do to multiple witnesses seeing "suspected" robber in area where history matches said robberer MO from past.

So us seeing GG's MO from past when its present in this game justify infavor view on they case of innocence.

#3378

Thomas Anderson 3 kwietnia 2024 o 9:23

Początkowo opublikowane przez Calv:
When the witness testimony consists of "I didn't see the robbery or the robber, but it was definitely that man over there", the number of them doesn't really matter.

- Ignoratio Elenchi fallacy
- Moving The Goal Posts fallacy

#3379

Thomas Anderson 3 kwietnia 2024 o 9:27

Początkowo opublikowane przez Sgt.Parker:
Początkowo opublikowane przez Calv:
When the witness testimony consists of "I didn't see the robbery or the robber, but it was definitely that man over there", the number of them doesn't really matter.

Still does, do to multiple witnesses seeing "suspected" robber in area where history matches said robberer MO from past.

So us seeing GG's MO from past when its present in this game justify infavor view on they case of innocence.

Exactly. Take this example:

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/trial-underway-for-dallas-doctor-accused-of-tampering-with-iv-bags-causing-death-and-cardiac-emergencies/3503548/

No one saw the doctor directly inject the IV bags. So I'm sure he'll be fine and has nothing to worry about. He'll be free soon. /s

#3380

Oakatusz 3 kwietnia 2024 o 9:46

Początkowo opublikowane przez Thomas Anderson:
Początkowo opublikowane przez Salt Engineer:
During the log4j fun, I had to actively argue against using fast moving public sources for similar reasons. Unknown developer involvement, and a time constraint precluding thorough review.

I feel this. I had to advise our corporation to shut down the primary EMR for dozens of sites because of the risk... which, thankfully, they listened to. (Yes, we have had an EMR that was using a java applet in concert with IE at the time. Yes. You read that right... and probably gives you insight into why I have such a hard line stance.) I'll leave you to imagine the party times that followed that decision. Because whatever you're imagining is most likely exactly right.

Also:

I haven't caught up on the topic since yesterday, but I just wanted to put this one to bed:

"Oak's reports don't prove anything."
"Oak's topic is just people reporting things."
"Oak's list of links is purely circumstantial."
"Oak's OP cannot be verified."

Ok, ignoring the fact that there are links with verification in the OP, please listen:

Unverified reporting, circumstantial evidence is still proof. People have gone to jail on witness testimony alone. We see people getting convicted on circumstantial evidence alone every day on TV now.

Yes, a single report does carry doubt. And when you have 2 witnesses testifying to the same thing, even without proof, their testimony is considered stronger evidence. What a jury has to decide is if the witnesses are telling the truth. 1 person can lie or remember wrong. 2 people can collude to lie, but they're not likely to misremember the same wrong thing. So the more witnesses you have telling the same story, the stronger your case.

Now the question:

How many 'witnesses' does Oak have testifying toward the idea that GameGuard (to put it lightly) may cause some issues? How many expert witnesses need to say that nPGG carries a real risk with it?

You are still free to doubt the multiple witness testimonies, but with each day and each report, Oak's case is only strengthened - not diminished.

Thank you for this eloquent comparison Mr. Anderson. Don't you worry, I will continue the documentation work and to use your analogy 'keep collecting witnesses' from the playerbase of HD2 who all report that Gameguard is causing severe issues.

As an additional detail on the matter at hand, it seems the Arrowhead CEO talked with Steven already, and confirmed it to him that they started working on something. So here's hoping that something will include the removal or replacement of Gameguard as soon as possible. Fingers crossed.

#3381

LongTimeAgo 3 kwietnia 2024 o 10:52

Początkowo opublikowane przez Salt Engineer:
-snip-

And thats not even mentioning the danger of whitelisting something that can then potentially be abused by a cheating tool, completely bypassing it.

The more I read about nPGG with all the findings, the more I begin to realize what an relic of its time is... (thats to say, 2005ish)
Who on earth made the godawful decision to pick this AC in light of so many others?!

#3382

Kraftkanzler posiada HELLDIVERS™ 2

3 kwietnia 2024 o 11:05

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeAgo:
Początkowo opublikowane przez Salt Engineer:
-snip-
And thats not even mentioning the danger of whitelisting something that can then potentially be abused by a cheating tool, completely bypassing it.

The more I read about nPGG with all the findings, the more I begin to realize what an relic of its time is... (thats to say, 2005ish)
Who on earth made the godawful decision to pick this AC in light of so many others?!

protectmymtx24.org youtube guide.

#3383

LongTimeAgo 3 kwietnia 2024 o 11:46

Początkowo opublikowane przez Kraftkanzler:
protectmymtx24.org youtube guide.

But even that decision... The most abhorrent game with the most microtransactions out there... (like literally every single mtx you can think off), War Thunder... Uses EAC.
If mtx were the deciding factor, than EAC would have been the crowned king.

#3384

Kraftkanzler posiada HELLDIVERS™ 2

3 kwietnia 2024 o 11:57

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeAgo:
Początkowo opublikowane przez Kraftkanzler:
protectmymtx24.org youtube guide.
But even that decision... The most abhorrent game with the most microtransactions out there... (like literally every single mtx you can think off), War Thunder... Uses EAC.
If mtx were the deciding factor, than EAC would have been the crowned king.

And:
EAC annual cost: $0
Crashguard annual cost per unit: $30.000

Decision maker: Mastermind

Edit

#3385

Wiawyr

3 kwietnia 2024 o 11:58

Początkowo opublikowane przez Salt Engineer:
A handful of possible machine parts results in
60,013,256,296,371,709,626,080,345,874,585,130,033,748,054,190,785,895,995,283,796,997,009,770,439,618,118,877,191,198,779,670,789,236,997,671,872,603,151,981,334,791,338,048,390,055,322,495,025,131,683,376,605,827,650,001,688,186,339,094,970,035,664,800

or 6.0013 × 10^100 possible hardware and software configurations, if we only account for graphics card, some basic drivers, and a fraction of ASUS motherboards.

It is literally impossible to account for all the differences in hardware and it's related software. Seriously, trying to figure out what the number is even called is breaking my brain, but... YOLO. Accounting for additional manufacturers and hardware drivers would blow this number out of the water.

I believe that 10^100 is called a "googol", predating Google of course.

#3386

LongTimeAgo 3 kwietnia 2024 o 11:59

Początkowo opublikowane przez Kraftkanzler:
And:
EAC annual cost: $0
Crashguard annual cost: $30.000
Decision maker: Mastermind

EAC is only free if you use Epic Online Services. (Whatever that entails)
In any case, judging by the FAQ by their """technical director""", you can definetly see how intelligent their decision making was.

Of all games this year that got shipped with nPGG, it had to be this game.
I die a little inside everytime I see amazing footage... But I'm not giving in untill nPGG is removed.

#3387

Wiawyr

3 kwietnia 2024 o 12:04

Początkowo opublikowane przez Salt Engineer:
Początkowo opublikowane przez Wiawyr:
I believe that 10^100 is called a "googleplex", predating Google of course.

The first time it gave me a wholly different exponent. First time I was told quadrillion, second looks like googleplex. Half the time working with it the query would outright die.

I really have no idea, and cut my losses. I'll just go with "It's yuge" for the luls.

Ah, you quoted me before I edited it. It was actually "googol" for 10^100, googleplex is 10^googol. But yes, yuge it is.

#3388

Kraftkanzler posiada HELLDIVERS™ 2

3 kwietnia 2024 o 12:05

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeAgo:
Początkowo opublikowane przez Kraftkanzler:
And:
EAC annual cost: $0
Crashguard annual cost: $30.000
Decision maker: Mastermind

EAC is only free if you use Epic Online Services. (Whatever that entails)
In any case, judging by the FAQ by their """technical director""", you can definetly see how intelligent their decision making was.

Of all games this year that got shipped with nPGG, it had to be this game.
I die a little inside everytime I see amazing footage... But I'm not giving in untill nPGG is removed.

Clocked 80+ hrs. I had my fill. Trashed the game after the first reports about bricked SSDs.
Yeah, the game is amazing for sure, but at some time it got bland. Contentwise.

And no lgbtq capes, what a bummer. *scnr :D*

#3389

Oakatusz 3 kwietnia 2024 o 12:49

Początkowo opublikowane przez Salt Engineer:
Początkowo opublikowane przez Thomas Anderson:
Yes, a single report does carry doubt. But when you have 2 witnesses testifying to the same thing, even without proof, their testimony is still considered evidence. What a jury has to decide is if the witnesses are telling the truth. 1 person can lie. 2 people can collude to lie. So the more witnesses you have telling the same story, the stronger your case.

Now the question:

How many 'witnesses' does Oak have testifying toward the idea that GameGuard (to put it lightly) may cause some issues?

You are still free to doubt the multiple witness testimonies, but with each day and each report, Oak's case is only strengthened - not diminished.

I felt like diving down a rabbit hole today and nerding out hardcore.

Throw my observations in the mix. Application termination outside of the expected time frame.

I wanted to crunch some numbers for perspective on the possible configs. And for the record, I would say that no AI was harmed in the making of this post... but that would be a lie. I made several choke doing math.

Let's take a look at the number of things that potentially need to be whitelisted for a single motherboard manufacturer. I'm going to keep samples conservative here.

If we look at Asus, I stopped counting models of RoG motherboards at ~100, but was only a third of the way through the list.

Picking one relatively new board, 3 major revisions for integrated Intel graphics. 3 major revisions for audio. 5 for wifi. Armoury crate gets regularly updated every couple months. Let's just say we've only got 5 for simplicity's sake. I'm completely ignoring any other minor revisions between these.

It results in 3060 potential configurations. If we're to assume that there are only 100 potential motherboards out there, and there are only ever 3 versions for corresponding driver software, we're talking 306,000 possible configurations.

Cool. So what happens when we factor in the 90 potential graphics cards the Steam hardware survey reports? Actually, let's be conservative and cut it in half and use 45.

A handful of possible machine parts results in
60,013,256,296,371,709,626,080,345,874,585,130,033,748,054,190,785,895,995,283,796,997,009,770,439,618,118,877,191,198,779,670,789,236,997,671,872,603,151,981,334,791,338,048,390,055,322,495,025,131,683,376,605,827,650,001,688,186,339,094,970,035,664,800

or 6.0013 × 10^100 possible hardware and software configurations, if we only account for graphics card, some basic drivers, and a fraction of ASUS motherboards.

It is literally impossible to account for all the differences in hardware and it's related software. Seriously, trying to figure out what the number is even called is breaking my brain, but... YOLO. Accounting for additional manufacturers and hardware drivers would blow this number out of the water.

Honestly, nobody here, at INCA, Riot, Epic, Valve, or anywhere else is going to be able to quantify it. There are going to be a ton of false positives.

Even if we're to assume that we're only looking for what INCA considers a risk, there are a lot of benign reasons that might be getting triggered. Anything from an OSD to a piece of software interacting with hardware to do it's job. Again, look at the number above and tell me with confidence it doesn't happen. Even if only 0.5% of the above have issues... it'd be (*kicks AI*)
3.0006628 × 10^{{\color{red}{{\tiny 60,013,256,296,371,709,626,080,345,874,585,130,033,748,054,190,785,895,995,283,796,997,009,770,439,618,118,877,191,198,779,670,789,236,997,671,872,603,151,981,334,791,338,048,390,055,322,495,025,131,683,376,605,827,650,001,688,186,339,094,970,035,664,800}}}}
uh... yeah let's just go with a massive number.

The impact of abnormal termination is going to vary based on which number you are in the 6.0013 × 10^100 combinations. You don't have the same experience as someone else? We fewer people on earth than potential hardware/software configurations by a long shot. Every machine is essentially unique the moment a user starts using it. And even a fraction of a percent is massive here.

So that's not helpful. What is, is figuring out the similarities between users that are having issues and trying to work out what specifically triggers GG (and we know it's not the cheats).

Początkowo opublikowane przez Calv:
When the witness testimony consists of "I didn't see the robbery or the robber, but it was definitely that man over there", the number of them doesn't really matter.

When you hand keys to your house to a random guy over there, and later walk in to find parts of it trashed... and find out dozens of people in your neighborhood had the same experience, who's the likely party? The mayor?

One commonality in all the reports of issues is GG. The other is HD. Assuming GG may be jumping the gun, but it's the only thing here with the access required for some of the instances.

It's better to warn people of the guy that was handed the key than to throw up your hands and suggest people just need to clean their room more often.