Anti-cheat is a HUGE problem.

[Vinski]

So I wouldn't even imagined that i will must say that but yes. nProtect is a huge problem as a anticheat. I have read those bad reviews about nProtect and why it is so bad, but i didn't know it's this type of scandal.

I experienced it on my own. Everything started after recent patch of the game. I started having performance issues in Helldivers, then in other games, like HOI4 - even in menu i got frame drops to 20-30. Other games had smaller performance issues but visable. But the main reason for my statement and my opinion were a problem with WINDOWS DEFENDER yes windows defender. For all the time i had nProtect on my pc, my windows defender went silent. After uninstalling nProtect and restarting my PC Windows Defender would pop-up saying that he is protecting me but there is something more than him protecting, i was little confused because i got only Windows defender on my PC . I tried to see what security providers i have but i coulnd't even find Windows Defender in it's own list. Weird, huh ?

Of course all of scandals that occured with nProtect on all sites, Reddit, Steam, Discord etc. There are a lot of topics like that. I'm remaining as well.

Funnier thing is that if you want to FULLY uninstall nProtect you need to completly reinstall your system with formatting is INSANE.

For now this is a huge NO and HUGE problem for the game and players privacy. DEV's you need to change this anti-cheat ASAP. There are better substitutes than this "malware". I ain't playing it again unless it will be solved or answered.

[Lord_Kasztan]

Same with me. After leaving Helldivers2, NProtect remains constantly on using computer resources and limiting performance. Currently this game is just a waste of money. I don't understand why they decided to use such a controversial Anti-Cheat.

[Kleo ツ]

You should see the people in the petition thread in general discussion going on about how it's standard practice for any odd title to cause these sorts of issues.

Also to OP, some Rootkits can weasel their way onto your BIOS/UEFI which means reformatting won't even eradicate it and no I'm not going to claim this particular rootkit goes that far but it's already been stated it has root access by the devs themselves.

This type of vulnerability is notorious for being a piece of work to get rid of while simultaneously being an incredibly severe one as well.

[Vinski]

Originally posted by Kleo ツ:

Also to OP, some Rootkits can weasel their way onto your BIOS/UEFI which means reformatting won't even eradicate it and no I'm not going to claim this particular rootkit goes that far but it's already been stated it has root access by the devs themselves..

Yes i know that, I work with computers everyday. Others anti-cheats for example Vanguard who is also working on a kernel-level is not as invasive as nProtect is. Also after formatting my whole PC, and looking for "files" connected with nProtect i didn' find anything. Windows Defender seems working properly but i will monitorize. If will need to reinstall BIOS/UEFI i will do it.

[Kleo ツ]

Originally posted by Vinski:

Originally posted by Kleo ツ:

Also to OP, some Rootkits can weasel their way onto your BIOS/UEFI which means reformatting won't even eradicate it and no I'm not going to claim this particular rootkit goes that far but it's already been stated it has root access by the devs themselves..

Yes i know that, I work with computers everyday. Others anti-cheats for example Vanguard who is also working on a kernel-level is not as invasive as nProtect is. Also after formatting my whole PC, and looking for "files" connected with nProtect i didn' find anything. Windows Defender seems working properly but i will monitorize. If will need to reinstall BIOS/UEFI i will do it.

Awesome. Excellent knowledge for anyone else on here, I don't plan on letting it tinker with my system at all.

You can sign the petition in general discussions as well if you haven't already and wish to, it's there but there's a handful of people just dogpiling in favor of NPGG trying to downplay the issue and suffocate the thread that the OP took the time to lay out and inform people with.

[Calv]

Originally posted by Lord_Kasztan:

Same with me. After leaving Helldivers2, NProtect remains constantly on using computer resources and limiting performance. Currently this game is just a waste of money. I don't understand why they decided to use such a controversial Anti-Cheat.

The service should stop when you exit the game.
If this isn't happening, are you able to stop it manually?

Also, gameguard uninstalls when you uninstall the game or run the included uninstaller. There is zero requirement to format your machine.

[Kerb]

Originally posted by Calv:

Originally posted by Lord_Kasztan:

Same with me. After leaving Helldivers2, NProtect remains constantly on using computer resources and limiting performance. Currently this game is just a waste of money. I don't understand why they decided to use such a controversial Anti-Cheat.

The service should stop when you exit the game.
If this isn't happening, are you able to stop it manually?

Also, gameguard uninstalls when you uninstall the game or run the included uninstaller. There is zero requirement to format your machine.

Kernel level means it embeds itself into your operating system kernel, effectively becoming part of your operating system kernel, effectively becoming your operating system. This is obviously useful with an anticheat, because it helps keep people from hiding cheats from anticheat, but it also basically opens your entire system up permanently with what is effectively a trojan that allows the anticheat makers to access every level of your system any time they wish, even without you realizing, because at the kernel level, it can hide its own actions from you. That means it could even do things like read or write any file, and even hide that file from you, take screenshots, steal any kind of personal information, credit cards, any personal files, etc.

At Kernel level you could even monitor your internet for connections and transfers but it can be controlled to not show up at all as if there is no connection to anything.

Even if you could say the anticheat makers have good intentions, there's no way they could vouch for every single one of their employees, as that field of work is bound to get people who explicitly sought out the position in order to get that kind of access to steal information from customers. All it takes is one bad employee with a script to mass compromise every users system, or even install their own personal rootkits without anyone knowing. And not only will you not know what data they are stealing, you won't even be able to pinpoint it was them if you start seeing crazy transactions on your credit card. They could do it to 1 in 1000 users and they'd still be robbing hundreds of people and getting hundreds of thousands of dollars, and the overall player base wouldn't be the wiser or even notified it's happening.

[Calv]

Originally posted by murdernator:

Originally posted by Calv:

The service should stop when you exit the game.
If this isn't happening, are you able to stop it manually?

Also, gameguard uninstalls when you uninstall the game or run the included uninstaller. There is zero requirement to format your machine.

Kernel level means it embeds itself into your operating system kernel, effectively becoming part of your operating system kernel, effectively becoming your operating system. This is obviously useful with an anticheat, because it helps keep people from hiding cheats from anticheat, but it also basically opens your entire system up permanently with what is effectively a trojan that allows the anticheat makers to access every level of your system any time they wish, even without you realizing, because at the kernel level, it can hide its own actions from you. That means it could even do things like read or write any file, and even hide that file from you, take screenshots, steal any kind of personal information, credit cards, any personal files, etc.

At Kernel level you could even monitor your internet for connections and transfers but it can be controlled to not show up at all as if there is no connection to anything.

Even if you could say the anticheat makers have good intentions, there's no way they could vouch for every single one of their employees, as that field of work is bound to get people who explicitly sought out the position in order to get that kind of access to steal information from customers. All it takes is one bad employee with a script to mass compromise every users system, or even install their own personal rootkits without anyone knowing. And not only will you not know what data they are stealing, you won't even be able to pinpoint it was them if you start seeing crazy transactions on your credit card. They could do it to 1 in 1000 users and they'd still be robbing hundreds of people and getting hundreds of thousands of dollars, and the overall player base wouldn't be the wiser or even notified it's happening.

You could say the exact same about Windows or any hardware drivers.
And honestly, if I was going to go to all that effort, I'd aim for something that is going to be on more people's machine than a lesser used anti-cheat software.

If you're that paranoid about being compromised then you shouldn't be using the internet at all.

[Kleo ツ]

Originally posted by murdernator:

Originally posted by Calv:

The service should stop when you exit the game.
If this isn't happening, are you able to stop it manually?

Also, gameguard uninstalls when you uninstall the game or run the included uninstaller. There is zero requirement to format your machine.

Kernel level means it embeds itself into your operating system kernel, effectively becoming part of your operating system kernel, effectively becoming your operating system. This is obviously useful with an anticheat, because it helps keep people from hiding cheats from anticheat, but it also basically opens your entire system up permanently with what is effectively a trojan that allows the anticheat makers to access every level of your system any time they wish, even without you realizing, because at the kernel level, it can hide its own actions from you. That means it could even do things like read or write any file, and even hide that file from you, take screenshots, steal any kind of personal information, credit cards, any personal files, etc.

At Kernel level you could even monitor your internet for connections and transfers but it can be controlled to not show up at all as if there is no connection to anything.

Even if you could say the anticheat makers have good intentions, there's no way they could vouch for every single one of their employees, as that field of work is bound to get people who explicitly sought out the position in order to get that kind of access to steal information from customers. All it takes is one bad employee with a script to mass compromise every users system, or even install their own personal rootkits without anyone knowing. And not only will you not know what data they are stealing, you won't even be able to pinpoint it was them if you start seeing crazy transactions on your credit card. They could do it to 1 in 1000 users and they'd still be robbing hundreds of people and getting hundreds of thousands of dollars, and the overall player base wouldn't be the wiser or even notified it's happening.

Wouldn't bother with them bud. Solid information for everyone else of course but I explained something to them and many others in another thread in general very similarly and it's apparently deemed "misinformation" despite the fact the information is at their fingertips to be viewed by themselves.

They can't seem to come to terms with the idea that gouging a hole into your system for a negligible gain, that being the anti-cheat still not doing enough to quell cheaters, is a horrendous idea and that anyone in their right mind wouldn't submit to the idea for a video game of all things. It's pure risk, a severe one for such a meager pay off as well.

Seeing them post again, this is all they like to do. They don't like to accept the bare logic at play and instead resort to pulling in anything else instead of addressing the primary point of contention in that we know what rootkits do, we know how this one is implemented and we know what the risks are involved and why it's foolish. It's as cut and dry as it gets.

[★ ace ★]

you read some reviews... moving on...

[Uber λ]

Waiting for them to remove this anti-cheat is way better than putting your whole PC at risk, patience is key.

Also, yeah, you don't need this much horsepower for a PVE game with dynamic planet conquering and the monetization store, there's better alternatives out there.

[Kobold]

Originally posted by Vinski:

Originally posted by Kleo ツ:

Also to OP, some Rootkits can weasel their way onto your BIOS/UEFI which means reformatting won't even eradicate it and no I'm not going to claim this particular rootkit goes that far but it's already been stated it has root access by the devs themselves..

Yes i know that, I work with computers everyday. Others anti-cheats for example Vanguard who is also working on a kernel-level is not as invasive as nProtect is. Also after formatting my whole PC, and looking for "files" connected with nProtect i didn' find anything. Windows Defender seems working properly but i will monitorize. If will need to reinstall BIOS/UEFI i will do it.

Its not worth to destroy your PC guys, just install Linux... there is no root access and your PC is safe, come to my Topic for more info's, i converted already many people to Linux and HD2 is running fine there:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/553850/discussions/2/7599331177361006128/

[Fuzzy the imperfect]

Originally posted by Calv:

Originally posted by Lord_Kasztan:

Same with me. After leaving Helldivers2, NProtect remains constantly on using computer resources and limiting performance. Currently this game is just a waste of money. I don't understand why they decided to use such a controversial Anti-Cheat.

The service should stop when you exit the game.
If this isn't happening, are you able to stop it manually?

Also, gameguard uninstalls when you uninstall the game or run the included uninstaller. There is zero requirement to format your machine.

Neither of those are true, but some developers have said that in official announcements. It's a rootkit. Integral to the nature of all rootkits is that they are present whenever your system boots and are there until a low level format is completed.

[Calv]

Originally posted by Fuzzy the imperfect:

Originally posted by Calv:

The service should stop when you exit the game.
If this isn't happening, are you able to stop it manually?

Also, gameguard uninstalls when you uninstall the game or run the included uninstaller. There is zero requirement to format your machine.

Neither of those are true, but some developers have said that in official announcements. It's a rootkit. Integral to the nature of all rootkits is that they are present whenever your system boots and are there until a low level format is completed.

Zero evidence of that.

It installs a virtual driver that will load and do nothing until the service starts when the game starts.
The driver is removed during uninstall.

[Fuzzy the imperfect]

Originally posted by Calv:

Originally posted by Fuzzy the imperfect:

Neither of those are true, but some developers have said that in official announcements. It's a rootkit. Integral to the nature of all rootkits is that they are present whenever your system boots and are there until a low level format is completed.

Zero evidence of that.

It installs a virtual driver that will load and do nothing until the service starts when the game starts.
The driver is removed during uninstall.

Surely Calv is just a troll. Denying deduction as not being evidence and making claims without evidence or reason in the same post. Surely they know how absurd that is and are doing it to fulfill a different motivation than discussion of reality.

[LongTimeAgo]

I've blocked Calv a long time ago (punt no intended) and it helped.
He argues in bad faith and nitpicks your comments/arguments to suit his own reactions on them while completely ignoring any context given.

If Calv reads this, I got a question:
You seem to know an awful lot about GameGuard, or you atleast appear to think you're pretty sure in what it can't or cannot do, as you described above. Can you show me the documentation in to the technical details of this AC?
- Installs as dormant driver.
- Stops service when game stops.
- Doesnt leave any residue besides some registry keys after running uninstaller. (Which has already been proven wrong, because it puts a db file on your C:\ that doesnt get deleted)

I'm really curious as to where you got all that information.