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FOREWORD 
, and share it with your like-minded fellow gamers to do so as well! You can sign here:
TABLE OF CONTENTS 
FOREWORD 
NEW! 
I. MAJOR UPDATES 
UPDATE 18 – NEW ARROWHEAD CEO ACKNOWLEDGES COLLECTION OF FEEDBACK WHICH INCLUDES PLEA TO REPLACE GAMEGUARD
II. SOLUTION PROPOSAL FOR ARROWHEAD INSTEAD OF GAMEGUARD 
III. ORIGINAL POST 
IV. THE AIM OF THIS DISCUSSION 
V. GAMEGUARD ISSUE DOCUMENTATION 
VI. USEFUL POSTS & FURTHER READING
Diskussionsregler og retningslinjer
0 
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Dont know how many people heard about this (I just learned myself) - but it gives a nice insight about how Sony cares about customer
https://arstechnica.com/culture/2024/02/funimation-dvds-included-forever-available-digital-copies-forever-ends-april-2/
Yea see.. did you actually watch it, it’s not as bad as we feared.
He literally said that it comes with the uninstaller as apposed to other games that required a secondary tool.
“It can be used potentially by bad actors in the future”. That is why he doesn’t fully trust it. Yea.. no sh**. You literally mitigate that by playing with people you trust, sorry pub stompers, but that’s RCE for you via p2p connections.
Mutahar didn’t say anything new or noteworthy. He doesn’t trust it, neither should you, BECAUSE OF HOW ANTI CHEATS OPERATE. Literally all anticheats are rootkit by nature.
“I don’t trust gameguard for the same reason I don’t trust EAC, battleye, vanguard. You shouldn’t distrust it because of the company, you should just distrust rootkit anticheats.”
“The big differences because of this and vanguard at the time, was vanguard was running when you booted the system. Their drivers are only active when the game is running. In fact I actually checked this myself by looking at the network stack on the vm I ran HD2 on”
So.. nothing new. Distrust it because it’s a rootkit like all other anticheats, and potentially an RCE exploit in the undefinded future might come up. Yea, unless you make yourself a target, you’ll be fine.
In fact, this is actually a point to address a few things.
1. Game-guard runs when the game runs, not on pc boot, as mutahar explained against og vanguard.
2. The game did has the uninstaller in it. When you close the game, just uninstall gameguard, ezpz. I’ve been saying this since I took the jump and bought it.
3. Don’t trust gameguard for the same reason you don’t trust other anticheats. It’s rootkit style software, all of it.
4. Any anticheat, not focusing on gameguard, just any anticheat that goes out of its way to spy on you is highly illegal, duh.
5. Gameguard, despite the backlash, has been around 24 years, and inca online makes AV solutions too. They are a massive company, per mutahar.
Again, don’t trust it because it’s like every other anticheat on your pc, but it comes with an uninstaller that removes it.. Tada, from mutahar himself…. just delete the helldivers2/gameguard/bin folder after uninstalling and c:/dp.jfm, and… it’s done. Uninstall gameguard when you’re done playing, power cycle your pc to ensure it’s flushed if you plan to continue using it after playing, and boom.
Mutahar a final quote 22:31 -
“This is all I really wanted to get into, I wanted to give this a little seal of approval, I wanted to talk about it. In general I have no reason, no actual evidence based on any analysis that this is spying on you. Now again, should something be running this deep? That’s a matter of personal opinions”
Literally fu***** Mutahar approved.
I just wanted to share the video, thats that. But thanks for pointing out the stuffs.
Though the tone at the start of your msg could have been different. However, to answer your questions, yes I did watch it.
Oh my b, lmfao. Lemme fix that, that’s on me, no shade intended, meant to mean it’s not as bad as we feared, not sound condescending.
I’m actually really happy. Like, I respect Mutahars due diligence on most things and give a lot of information on top of it. But yea, no evidence found it’s spying on you, it’s removed when you uninstall, it’s the worst of the bunch but not sinister. That’s all what we just wanted to hear by someone who can voice it for the general public
My brain autopiloted into thinking you were being hostile for the sake of it, because its Steam forums lol, and I apologise for that assumption.
Especially in this forum? Dude, I don’t blame you at all. But yea, my b again. It’s a good day and this should put a lot of fears to rest
Probably means I don't have a reason to type in this discussion much anymore cause that isn't what this exact conversation is about. It's about switching away from Gameguard to something that is more known.
Don't think I'm gonna type anything long here cause you can just check my posts to see what I think about it all. For people playing HD2, I wish you a non-BSOD gameplay.
But I will buy the game as soon as GameGuard is changed for something else or removed.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/553850/discussions/0/7599331177365984423/?ctp=4
page 4 his stuff works again.
just like MSI afterburner but that happened much more quickly... more people use that.
ive read things like this past few days "it just worked outta nowhere idk what happened"
just gonna take a wild guess and say devs are whitelisting things in the background
devs are on it.
Maybe it was all the other 'bigger' games walking away that prompted them to do this.
And it's also because of your efforts that this is confirmed. This was a legitimate concern for this AC up untill HD2. Seems like again, INCA listened to concerns.
True, however, it is noteworthy that there's anti-cheat who are slightly more 'transparent' when it comes to letting people know what it can and cannot do and anti-cheat who has a bad rep, doesnt fix that bad rep, doesnt go online to alleviate concerns and expects their own customers to do that for them with their software. I find this a very very odd strategy on INCA's part, but it is what it is, for now.
And here's hoping that CVE's dont stay in rootkits for over 12 years before being patched.
There's still a few questions remaining as per my previous post, but it's ok to run this through Linux or a dedicated gaming Windows image.
And yet... That the community itself needs to validate what an AC can or can not do instead of the companies responsible (Arrowhead and/or INCA) still baffles me. They stay completely radio silent with even some devs in the discord trying to hint towards the "yeah the cheaters want us to remove the anti-cheat". What a tool.
The Tech directors post also makes me shovel this company onto the pile of "devs/companies you can't trust", which will make me think twice about any product they are trying to sell in the future.
My problem with nProtect and why I would never install it on my main system is not really whether it’s completely stopping after the game is closed, or that they may steal my data (which I’m pretty sure they don’t). On this point, the people defending it are right. Even checking it for malware does not make sense because, in a kind of why it is. It either would get flagged as a false positive or is on the detection whitelist of the AVs.
My problem is that the whole thing just looks and feels cheap.
They have a bad track record, the website and FAQ is a joke. Buttons not working, ♥♥♥♥ old GUI, bad translations. For a publicly facing entity, in terms, provider of security software that’s a nogo.
If the website is bad, I automatically feel or assume that the software quality is also cheap/bad.
For example, why do they clutter files all over the system.
Best example “C:/dp”.jfm. Why drop a file in the root folder of C.
For me this looks like they implemented some feature using this file and to make it easy they just but it on C:/ while in development environment, but when it got pushed to production no one bothered to change the paths to a more appropriate location like a temp folder or AppData. Man, they could even just hide it as a system file…
Which is the next problem I have with nProtect. It’s not so much what it’s doing while running but also what modification it does on my system on install without my notice, and not changing back after uninstall. And I bet you, they are doing modifications in the background. Cheap software does cut corners, to get things to run.
Changing some registry values, doing modifications to the NIC settings which in term affects other programmes even when HD2 is not running or even uninstalled.
Extreme hypothetical example. They don’t get a feature to work because of secure boot.
Instead of working around they just disable it. Again, hypothetical I don’t say they do it, but they could.
Real world example of another tool:
A friend of my used a tool called ExitLag a few years back which did what it should while gaming.
Problem is, he had also got connections and speed issues after the installation which even stayed after uninstallation. Well, the tool did some changes to the network stack in the background and modification to the NIC( disabling checksum offloading etc..) and oh wonder did not revert the modifications on uninstall.
So, cheap software, cutting corners -> bad for security, combined with P2P connections in the game is a cluster ♥♥♥♥. nProtect had privilege escalation exploits in the past.
Again, this now is also an extreme hypothetical(but not impossible) whatif, but I bet you there are currently some bad actors trying to find a new exploit and combine it with the P2P connections, which if they succeed would lead to a exponentially growing new botnet.
And this wouldn’t be the first time. Exactly such a case happened July of last year with the old CoD:MW2(also P2P)
Yea, i don't like the very plain terrible coding practice that INCA did with dp.jfm file either, it just feels sloppy.
That being said, as long as you play a p2p game, youre always going to have RCE exploits if people are willing to use that as an attack vector, which is terrible for pubs. I mean, look at GTA and BO3, those cheat systems are pretty sophisticated, and im pretty sure in gta, there was a point where cheat software could remotely shut down a targets pc, among other things.
Look, end of the day, regardless of what side someone is on, so long as they actually are productively contributing to this discussion, we can all agree, to a certain amount, that GG was the worst choice they could have gone with, we would all feel more comfortable with EAC as its been vetted and is used by every major game out there, and we want to make sure our voices are heard on the matter. However, there appears to not be substantial issues from a security perspective. As @LongTimeAgo said https://steamcommunity.com/app/553850/discussions/2/4206994023681304166/?ctp=110#c4339851902699323009 there are just questions we deserves answers for.
Arrowhead is, at 100 people, i wouldn't consider a small dev team. Thats like, < 20 people. This is a large studio, and its growing. Regardless of what their decisions to use GG were, it clearly doesnt work. I mean, wow, maybe they havent found a way to spawn super credits (i genuinely dont know if they can, i only hear about samples). But they will, eventually. I don't think there have been any reported bans that GG activates by itsself. So, like whats the point. If they made the decision for monetary purposes, which, maybe they projected 50k people would buy the game.. i don't know if this is stull true but.. https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-has-made-easy-anti-cheat-free-for-game-developers/ is EAC really free for devs? I mean sony themselves support epic some way or another. If the reason were for catching cheaters, why not use something like EAC which has a substantially better detection rate (though not amazing by any definition). Fact of the matter, is maybe they chose a tool that deters people from making cheats. I mean, how many cheat devs actively make tools for GG? Probably not many, but if they can crack vanguard, ricochet, EAC, battleeye, what makes AH think GG cant be cracked as well?
Theres just this major decision that no one seems to have an answer for, even the devs. You know what would make me say, "okay, i can accept GG?".. is if someone from AH, listed out the exact technical decision that lead to using it and why..
This to me, is not an acceptable answer. This is a marketing answer, meant to quell the sheep. TELL ME THE FEATURE SETS. Tell us what makes GG vastly superior to other solutions on the market.
I want to know...
Is it stopping cheaters more effectively and what proof of that does AH have
Is it making it so they cant get super credits and how extensively did they test that
Is it blocking RCE?
Is it harder to develop cheat software for?
Is it more budget friendly compared to the others?
Did the game engine play better with GG and if so what others did AH test?
Does it have features that others don't have?
like.. I think we all want a technical answer. I don't see why we can't get one. Then again, thats just the world we live in as gamers. Shut up, stuff this down your throat, and say "thank you, may I have another"