Denuvo has literally no purpose in NieR anymore, remove it

[A D L]

Denuvo's only purpose is to ensure no one but legitimate customers can play Denuvo titles. Now that is no longer true, there is literally no point to keeping it around. At this point, it only affects legitimate customers in a variety of ways, most dangerous is how it could prevent even paying customers from playing the games they paid for. Remove it.

I'm not an anti-DRM crusader, I take no issue with Steamworks because Valve has stated repeatedly that they have measures in place for the day Steam goes down. I take issue with the way Denuvo is authentication server-based and if that authentication server goes down, we're S.O.L.

I also take issue with how it prevents WINE/Parallels emulation. Imagine if the original Doom used Denuvo. You wouldn't even be able to buy it on Steam since the copy being sold on Steam uses DOSbox.

I like to think I take a very reasonable stance on the subject of DRM. I just don't think it should impose those restrictions, especially once Denuvo's entire objective (as stated on their website) failed meaning it's literally useless.

Denuvo Anti-Tamper technology prevents the debugging, reverse engineering and changing of executable files to strengthen the security of games. It is not a DRM solution, but rather, Denuvo Anti-tamper protects DRM solutions, such as Origin Online Access or the Steam license management system, from being circumvented.

[pvthoch]

Originally posted by Macula:

Originally posted by Revan1er:

Oh? Why he is ALWAYS coming in EVERY anti-denuvo thread? I can give a long list of forum when this guy come and defend Denuvo as it is his life... So tell me how we can call a person like this? A SJW may be? The defender of the poor denuvo company?

And btw, Denuvo IS a drm. It limit my access to my games, period. When I wanted to play Rise of the TR during a trip, I can't because... Denuvo RE-activation... (I had already more than 10 hours of playtime so steam drm was already activated and didn't need an other one).

And please, kaldaein, you are not in position to question my knowledge about drm. You may be a good programmer but you lack a lot about law and interpretation. You should not try to come at me without being prepared.

Because of Alex, because of people like Alex that spreads misinformation about Denuvo.

Every now and then some smartass blames god only know how much problems on Denuvo only to find out in end it wasn't the cause at all. But who cares you just want to Denuvo to be removed and if you say a little white lie now and then and no one will notice it right? WRONG.

You can argue if you want but don't blame everything on Denuvo until you actually done some real research about everything that been said and already debunked first.

Denuvo shill spotted

[ZK]

edit: nvm I see you're aware of that, should read better next time

[Aemony]

Originally posted by Kaldaien:

That is DRM unequivocally. And it reinforces what I've said before about Denuvo, that they have multiple products and not clearly identifying these products is them being stupid :P Denuvo is the company name, we just call all of their products Denuvo as well because we know no other name.

Ah, I see. And Denuvo seems to have updated their website to better reflect their various products: https://www.denuvo.com/img/infografik.png?v=2

---

ANTI-TAMPER

Works on top of any digital distribution platform, preventing debugging, reverse engineering and changing the application without any limitation on the legitimate user.

Denuvo hardens conventional systems to the maximum extent based on the binary Codefusion Engine and DeepBinding.

---

ANTI-CHEATING

Protects executables from taking secrets of an application which gives the cheater an unfair advantage over other users.

Denuvo protects the application in live-mode and thus provides a runtime application self-protection (RASP).

---

APPLICATION LICENSE MANAGEMENT

Controls access and restricts usage of copyrighted works deployable on any application.

Denuvo’s engine includes floating / single-use license management and online encryption toolkits.

---

OPTICAL MEDIA PROTECTION

Provides disc copy protection technology based on advanced code encryption combined with an application license management system. The application license management system contains activation algorithms ensuring that only legally purchased DVDs, BDs and most recently UHDs can be used.

---

So basically:
Denuvo Anti-Tamper - Not DRM
Denuvo Anti-Cheating - Not DRM
Denuvo Application License Management - DRM
Denuvo Optical Media Protection - DRM

[ZK]

Originally posted by Kaldaien:

That doesn't jive with what Aemony just described.

see my edit, I read too hastily :P

[Kaldaien]

Originally posted by BattleDonut:

Originally posted by Kaldaien:

That doesn't jive with what Aemony just described.

see my edit, I read too hastily :P

Sorry, just deleted my hasty response to your hasty response :)

But.... I would say that what Aemony describes is unequivocally DRM, and also a product that might be related to, but is different from their anti-tamper stuff.

The problem with Denuvo is they don't give their products names. They want to be as invisible as possible, while having no fewer than three different products that we all just call Denuvo :) That'd be like calling Microsoft Office and Microsoft Windows simply Microsoft.

Marklar, anyone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzq4YDt7V-o

[😎Macula😎]

Originally posted by high ping disavantage:

Originally posted by Macula:

*snip*

Denuvo shill spotted

And now I am shill... what is shill anyway? If it's zit can you pop it for me?

[Aemony]

Originally posted by BattleDonut:

Originally posted by Kaldaien:

That doesn't jive with what Aemony just described.

see my edit, I read too hastily :P

Yeah, those that I described seems to be the most common in eastern Europe. I haven't stumbled upon one myself here in Sweden. Here[i.imgur.com] is a screenshot of how Redeem.exe looks like. Apparently it made quite some consumers pissed when Square Enix mistakenly bundled the wrong DLL file[www.eurogamer.pl] with Redeem.exe on the retail discs.

NieR:Automata's retail copy is protected by this scheme in some eastern European countries.

[Kaldaien]

Originally posted by Macula:

Originally posted by high ping disavantage:

Denuvo shill spotted

And now I am shill... what is shill anyway? If it's zit can you pop it for me?

Originally, shill meant someone who speaks positively for a company because they are compensated in some way.

Now, however, it just means "someone who disagrees with my preconceptions."

[Dinghy_Dog]

Originally posted by Aemony:

NieR:Automata's retail copy is protected by this scheme in some eastern European countries.

I got one of those, Australian retail disc Redeem.exe, punch in the code on the leaflet get a steam key.

[😎Macula😎]

Originally posted by Kaldaien:

Originally posted by Macula:

And now I am shill... what is shill anyway? If it's zit can you pop it for me?

Originally, shill meant someone who speaks positively for a company because they are compensated in some way.

Now, however, it just means "someone who disagrees with my preconceptions."

So shill gets paid?! WHERE IS MY MONEY!!!!!!!

[deathmaster snikch]

Originally posted by Macula:

Originally posted by high ping disavantage:

Denuvo shill spotted

And now I am shill... what is shill anyway? If it's zit can you pop it for me?

Your Idol Is and what is funny is that he's not even getting paid for it the guy shills for free

Originally posted by Macula:

Originally posted by high ping disavantage:

Denuvo shill spotted

And now I am shill

Nah you are just one more of this Dude Ego stroker

Originally posted by Macula:

I do know that he isn't Denuvo defender nor any other similare gimmic title you want to bestow him.

Rime Steam Discussions says otherwise

[Kaldaien]

Well, that's the simplest form of compensation, yeah... but anything beneficial between the two parties could theoretically qualify.

It's such a ridiculous notion to believe that anyone on Internet forums could be a shill for a secretive company. They don't need people speaking for them, they will just remain silent on all matters because that's the best way to ensure the internal workings of your software aren't leaked.

[Kaldaien]

Originally posted by Burst Fire:

Originally posted by Macula:

I do know that he isn't Denuvo defender nor any other similare gimmic title you want to bestow him.

Rime Steam Discussions says otherwise

Right? The one where I've been working on that game's performance and even got a mention in Digital Foundry's performance analysis?

I'm glad your head's screwed on ... backwards. Where would we be without your unique insight?

[Kaldaien]

Originally posted by Burst Fire:

Originally posted by Macula:

And now I am shill... what is shill anyway? If it's zit can you pop it for me?

Your Idol Is and what is funny is that he's not even getting paid for it the guy shills for free

Sorry, that violates the definition of the word shill. If I get nothing out of it, it's not shilling.

You also have to ask yourself, why would Denuvo compensate me for pointing out problems and stupid things they do frequently? Surely you're not that insane?

[Erebus]

Originally posted by Kaldaien:

This is why the phrase anti-tamper was created,

Anti-tamper isn't a good phrase either, you know considering that ties in heavily to their sales pitch... which your own work disproves. And the authentication whatever you want to call it aspect controls "distribution" and "access" more than something like GOG does (which you somehow do consider DRM).

Given the overly broad DRM definitions being slung around, don't you think limiting it solely to "b-b-b-buh copyright license" is missing the plot a bit? :/

do you consider anti-cheat DRM?

There's no good way for me to give my opinion on that. There is a hell of a lot of variation among anti-cheat setups and some tie into other systems. Take Diablo 3 where do you draw the line between anti-cheat, DRM, and etc?