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edit: dammit, Steam's mangling the link parameters, change `&` to just `&` to get where you're supposed to go there.
They ruined the game with the 2.0 update and lots of the old players left. They have added a lot to the game, but at the expense of a lot of liked features. Also the game runs really slow now.
In particular with the r-mining loop you basically had to cheat the game to get it to work (forcing sector reload mechanics) and it was a _huge_ pain in the space-ass to get it to work. Once you figured it out it was okay, but up until that point it's a load of banging head against brick wall.
Trading is loads easier to find a good route without breaking out the spreadsheet. Now I love a spreadsheet as much as the next man (probably loads more actually), but now the game does all that for you and so you don't need to, and people are angry ... I dunno.
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In theory the game is a lot easier to get into since the bar on the two primary early-mid game economic activities has been lowered. (Stations (and especially chaining them together) is late game (at least as far as economics goes because they're basically a way of printing money, but you have to have a lot of money in order to set them up))
In practice there's still a huge amount of nuance, a lot of which goes unnoticed.
E.g. with an r-miner (i.e. an r-miner on the galaxy map mission) I can easily get say 50k resources an hour. But with just a few tweaks I can crank that up to 260k resources per hour. And while the UI _does_ hint at you what and how it thinks you can improve, there's still some stuff that's not immediately obvious.
E.g. returns are higher outside of core faction areas. (This is a bit of a 'well duh' thing, but is also one of the few areas where the otherwise very detailed simulation of the old r-mining loop breaks down)
E.g. running a scouting mission over the area first
E.g. equipping a mining module
E.g. getting efficiency up to 90% on all your r-mining lasers
E.g. having sufficient but not crazy pants storage on the ship
E.g. having the right kind of captain (including beneficial perks)
E.g. stacking mining ships as escorts to cheese ambush chances.
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Another one I have looked at the code for but haven't been able to verify is that mixing mining and salvaging lasers on the same ship tanks your returns from the mining mission. I tried looking for it in the code but it gets kind of gnarly at that point.
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Anyway, I hope that this list helps to understand why when a lot of the 'old guard' switched from 1.4.7 or whatever it was (1.4.3?) to 2.0 and _weren't_ doing any of that stuff (because they didn't know that they needed to in order to get good/decent returns), they suddenly saw their mining revenue crash by about 80% and went "this sucks I quit".
Basically, it's a skill issue. :D
Ignoring that here are the facts of the peoples views from the time. I might also point out that the link I provide is just one of many of the ongoing threads at the time. It was also "locked" for no reason months later because it was so popular. You can also check the games ratings and will notice that they took a huge nose dive during this time with about 1/3 negative reviews.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/445220/discussions/0/3038230013022426703/?tscn=1631887461
Many players never came back, many of the players here now are new or liked the changes. The games multiplayer flopped hard. This is just an excerpt from the linked thread:
" 2.0 gutted the game. These features are gone now:
The 2.0 changes needed to stay in beta. The QoL changes are overshadowed by removing features from the game that removes lots of the ways to play.
The changes of 2.0 don't affect you, if...
...you only pilot one ship and only fight.
...mining was a nuisance to you.
...you never built an economic empire.
...you never installed a red trading upgrade before deciding which sector is gonna get 20 factories.
...you want to cheese through the game.
...you never had more than 6 mining ships.
...you're easily impressed and have no soul but suddenly found your calling trying to discredit everybody who dislikes the forced changes onto Avorion, especially Multiplayer (there's currently not a single 1.3.8 server).
These things, however, are completely gone from the game, which really removes alot of the things to do:
Creating full production chains doesn't work anymore. Ambient Shuttles are too slow. Placement of factories doesn't really matter anymore.
Using your own ships for logistics. For example Steel Factories and Solar Power Plants produce more than they can move. You needed to use your own ships to fill your factories in the same sector. Since buy and sell orders are f**ked, that's gone.
Using your own ships to sell produced products in multiple sectors. Example: Ten Water Collectors in a single sector supplying an entire agricultural region of a faction. (Multiplayer friendly due to only 2 alive sectors)
Permanent passive mining income. It was quite tricky on multiplayer with fighter limits per sector and alive sector limits, but it was a fun problem to solve. The new system just keeps getting in your way. Avorion was always a slow paced game, now you have to keep re-starting orders / micromanage. There are (used to be) many things to do, You don't want to have to micromanage your miners
Analyzing ship performance, for example it made no sense to put mining turrets on a ship with mining fighters, as the ship would never get into range before the fighters mined the asteroid. Another example is stacking mining upgrades on a ship so it actually empties sectors from asteroids so they instantly respawn on leaving the sector. Allowing good mining results in multiplayer with just 2 sectors.
Making many low-tech ships in the starting area to stay longer in the starting area.
Making large low-tech ships to stay in the starting area longer and build a small empire there.
Farming resources with automated R-Salvaging (I guess non-R salvaging can still be done with in-sector orders). So that while you build multiple factories, the pirates in your sector are converted into upgrades.
Building mining fleets in multiplayer for core sectors that had escorts to defend against raids (when players joined the sector) or players themselves.
All your previous ship designs are dysfunctional now. Especially the optimized early game designs.
In insane difficulty you would build a business empire before moving. This is now made annoying by the lack of mining automation. If you focus on business / missions you'll still have to micromanage even a small amount of mining ships for no reason. If you don't build a business empire you still can't build many ships due to the artificial limits.
Showing turret material levels as colors. Finding the right mining/salvaging turrets is a mess now.
Making ships move by chaining orders. While chaining them is still possible, my ship with multiple hyperspace upgrades and 10s cooldown spends minutes within a sector for no reason.
Going out and back into sector overview resets the scrollbar on the right. So if you are in a sector of >20 stations and you want to do something with your ships, you'll go insane from the scrolling.
Building that multi billion business empire to have the funds to not only craft good turrets, but turrets with Independent Targeting without the damage debuff.
Building just that perfect fighter for mining and taking the price of replicating it. Now you can make a minimal fighter. It's speed does not matter, only it's dps/effectiveness are taken into consideration. It won't be actually mining. Not that it would matter much, since you are mostly held back by carrier upgrades and the max 72 useful mining fighter "limit" (?) in the expedition code.
In general:
The artificial limits on ship amount and ship size make harder difficulties less challenging. There are less ways to complete it. You don't feel like playing in a simulated world anymore. Your mining ships will break, but at the same time you are stopped from haivng many ships, thus you can't have a large fleet, you can't build an early business empire due to lack of resources, you're forced to rush to the center JUST TO GET MORE SHIPS. (Reminder: Ship founding requires build knowledge when the founding fee includes said resource. Why?)
As long as your play style contains more than 6 ships + alliance ships, youll start to hate to stupidly micromanage.
Inb4:
tHeRe iS cLasSiC. All the above points still stand. Logistics are crippled. Automation is crippled.
tHeRe iS mOdS. The mods only inlude mining/salvaging orders. Station building, empire building and logistics are still broken.
Even more: Almost all MP servers either have too many mods or are vanilla. So you play on vanilla servers. But vanila servers are now ♥♥♥♥. Including my current >100hr favorite server. My like 70 factories are all ♥♥♥♥. They don't produce anyways, because they can't deliver to each other fast enough like they used to.
So, MP is ♥♥♥♥, see the above points to understand which mechanics are gone.
Empire building was always the endgame. Even if you took your time of playing a solo style for a thousand hours, you'd still learn to build an empire at some point. That's all gone now. If you never did it, count yourself lucky. It was a sandbox with freedom. Now there's only one play style left.
When you did everything you wanted to do you'd sit down and try to perfect everything. Make the "perfect turrets", "the perfect fighter", etc. That required billions. That's why you always ended up building business empires. Now with the new changes, your options are limited. It's become boring for no reason. Nobody asked for the changes. I can't even refund anymore.
EDIT:
Added further things that are gone.
Last edited by Shib; Sep 19, 2021 @ 3:32am "
Steamcharts says[steamcharts.com] that is, umm, omitting material facts[www.law.cornell.edu].
I should know. I wrote a bunch of them.
If that was true why would I bother modding???
Also, they can't afford me. :D
Also also I've given plenty of criticisms of 2.0, they're just not related to r-mining. I think people have rose tinted spectacles about how 'great' r-mining loops were, but they were a _proper_ pain in the space-ass to get working.
I try to help people learn about the game. So sue me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=889624474
have fun
You can just grab the old version from the betas.
In before Narn risks repeating themselves -> one of the complaints the older players have is that there aren't any SERVERS (for multiplayer) running the old version.
So there's a bunch of stuff they can't do anymore (except the r-mining loop, that's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ excuse and 100% a skill issue :-p ) ... e.g. micromanaging their trade ships to run a very particular route. By comparison the 2.0 traders is more like throwing a bucket full of mud at a wall. It's _theoretically_ possible that it'll make a portrait better than you could do by hand, but the odds are ass-tronomical.
Which is also kind of funny because the big complaint with miners is that they have to micromanage them (by touching a stack of 8 ships once every 8 hours ... waaah), whereas conversely they _want_ to micromanage the traders.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So what's the difference? Why micro good in one situation, and micro bad in another? The answer is that they want to AFK. So the essence of the complaint is that they can't leave the game running all day and _not_ be playing it?
Of course if your idea of fun is to walk away from a game and come back a week later to 20 billion of everything and 100 trillion in cash ... you _could_ just play creative ... and have infinite resources (and no building knowledge).
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah, EA has that serious problem. After the money stops flowing, I'm sure the motivation work on the project diminishes. Especially after years, and possibly running out of ideas.
I like this game and some other EA titles but there is an issue with development
How I feel about this game is if I were to buy an expensive watch. Imagine buying a nice watch that has the color you like and keeps the time well. The only issues you have with the watch the makers say they will fix for you soon. But the watch maker wants to "fix" your watch by replacing it. Their update method is as follows:
While you sleep at night they have a small troll enter your room and take your watch. The troll replaces the watch with another "updated" watch. The new watch does fix some of the issues you were having with the old watch BUT now it has missing features. Added to that the troll swapped your expensive $3000 watch with a cheep $10 knock off copy that has a broken screen and cannot keep time well anymore. Its not the watch you wanted or would ever have paid for. Its not even the color you like either. When you complain to the watch maker they say you cannot complain because they "updated" your watch. They also say that other new costumers who never had the old watch buy the new updated watch and they are happy with it. Would you think that is acceptable?
Another example:
Imagine having an old grandfather clock from the 1800s and its an expensive antique. Its gotten old and one of the gears for the second hand no longer works and some of the wood is beat up. You have a lifetime warranty with the company and they say they will fix it. A few months later they say its done and you go pick it up to find out that its not even the same. Its "updated" and "its now better; its grandfather clock 2.0" they say. They painted over the old expensive antique wood with a neon green coating. The antique clock face with gold inlay and gold hands has been gutted and removed. The clock face is replaced with a old school green digital readout that reads the numbers for the time. The clock no longer mechanically keeps track of the time nor does it chime. Its junk. When you complain they say you can use the "antique setting" for the clock face. The setting is nothing more than a neon green digital readout of a radial clock face.
Those two examples are how I feel about this game. The company replaced what I had gotten with junk. Its not even the same product I purchased. I would never have gotten this game if it is in the state is in now. I am very disappointed. The last version they leave you with if you want to revert has too many unfixed bugs and missed potential its painful to play it.
Its sad. Its disappointing. When a game company makes a game and then changes the core rules of the game AFTER its supposedly been released its disgusting.
Says a person who themselves writes volumes and volumes..
I've been playing this game on and off since EA for a total of 350ish hours. Imo the game has improved a lot, and is still very much enjoyable.
Last play through about a year ago with a ton of mods, which added a lot of fun content.
True. I do write a lot. To complain. I am not an apologist. As I said many of the players who did not like the changes made to the game quit playing a long time ago. I am one of those who stayed to keep stating my displeasure.
As I said, many players left, those who are here now either like the changes, or never knew how the game was before.