HBG is breaking my heart

[Netsa]

I'm one of those rare players that actually played HBG because it was fun, and not because it was strong. I loved customizing the gun, choosing and crafting ammo, testing its performance, all of those technical aspects that made it feel like a real machine. I used Normal 3 HBGs as secondary weapons in every game since 4 (3, technically, but that game had the build-a-beargun system).

In Wilds, the weapon feels streamlined to the point of... not being an HBG anymore. It's just not. It's a slow LBG. I don't want slow-LBG, I want the HEAVY. Where's the BEEF?! Why do the devs think I chose to pick up an irrationally large gun? So I could block with an SnS shield while I rapid-fire peanuts from my tiny te-, *ahem* clips? If I wanted to do that, I'd pick up an LBG!

No, I chose to forego the shield in every single game because I wanted a big barrel with big power. What is difficult to understand about this, Capcom?

Normals are forced to rapid-fire now, which is weird since HBG isn't a rapid-fire weapon. Recoil is gone, which means you can't reconfigure the recoil. Shields are permanently affixed, which means you can't reconfigure the barrel. Deviation certainly isn't a thing anymore. Wyvernsnipe has been turned into Slow Wyvernheart, so reconfiguring the special ammo is more of a formality than anything else.

Basic ammo types are all infinite, but that's a double-edged sword since any ammo level lower than the max level can no longer be used. That means you can't exhaust lvl 3 ammo and then switch to lvl 2 ammo to keep firing. You only have lvl 3, so you can only reload. Because that's what a GUN needs. LESS pewpew.

Several guns that used to be Normal 3 are now Normal 2 or not Normal at all. I built the first Normal 3 gun I saw, which was Arkveld's, but there's something peculiar about Arkveld's gun: it's stats make no sense. Even on it's maximum upgrade, and despite the fact that it can't fire any other shots besides Wyvern and Dragon, its base Normal clip is two. TWO. TWO?! This same gun has Tetrad Shot, which means any clip size below 4 is pointless. So it's either waste both customization slots on Normal Magazine, or switch to using Pierce or Spread 1 on what's supposed to be a Normal gun.

Not that the customization slots are being used for anything. What are my choices here? Slightly higher damage, 1 extra shot, or... that's it. That's everything. Who cares? Who would ever care?

This stuff is on top of losing basically everything from Iceborne, Rise, and Sunbreak. No special scope, no wyvernsnipe, no charged shots, and crouch fire removed AGAIN. In their place... I can now clash sometimes. And I got an offset! Woo...

Why didn't they just lower the damage?!
Why did they instead take a machete to every single aspect of the gun until it's a bloody, unrecognizable mess? This is the worst and most boring incarnation of the Heavy Bowgun the series has ever had.

[GornWicket]

Ursprungligen skrivet av LemonSoda:

why no wyvernsnipe

this

[GornWicket]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Begood:

HBG actually does an insane amount of damage with end game setup right now. It's so friggin tanky too. It took me some time to figure it all out. I don't think any youtuber caught on or they are too busy with other meta weapons.

But back to what the OP is saying. Yea it does suck they removed a lot of customization from guns. LBG also lost a lot of versatility as a support and that's what I used it for in World.

It is pretty easy and monotonous what HBG does now. It nukes from afar and procs paralysis just once if you went for that. Power clash capability is pretty exciting though.

I won't say they should bring back sticky ammo and cluster bomb build. That was fun but too op. But maybe they should bring back recoil mods for shotgun builds to pair it with guarding. Spread ammo is just not usable right now. Makes no sense. Or... I wonder if they wanted us to use it for the recoil to make distance after guarding lmao.

im sorry but they need to bring back cluster bomb build its what made it great and i dont think it was too op. plenty of other weapons way more op than it in world

[Begood]

DPS-wise maybe. But it had to be paired up with sticky ammo which was insanely good at knocking them down. Even better than hammer in a lot of cases. I'm sure you can't argue about that. Ranged, safe, better at knocking stuff down than hammer, and nukes like it does right now and guard for free? I mean I guess if they nerfed damage quite a bit from this point, it'd be alright to get those back. Don't get me wrong I was cluster bomb main in World. I also won't lie it felt like an easy mode.

You keep saying HBG is weak in Wilds. You should change up your setup. Probably haven't found out how it nukes. It's just monotonous. Not weak.

[The Vagrant Knight]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Begood:

HBG actually does an insane amount of damage with end game setup right now. It took me some time to figure it all out. I don't think any youtuber caught on or they are too busy with other meta weapons.

It does a lot of damage if used well for sure, the main problem is that it does so in a boring way and mostly due to many, many smaller numbers. Would be nice to have some options that do the same but feel more impactful. Normal ammo got close, but the rapid fire got in the way. Imo, the only thing that feels impactful rn is the status ammo. but status you'll only use once or twice.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Begood:

I won't say they should bring back sticky ammo and cluster bomb build. That was fun but too op. But maybe they should bring back recoil mods for shotgun builds to pair it with guarding. Spread ammo is just not usable right now. Makes no sense.

spread is technically usable, it's just not fun to do so. Every single shot means losing control for a whole second while being blasted backwards. This while already having the smallest critical range from the base ammo types. Recoil reduction would definitely help.

I'd also argue that sticky ammo and cluster have a place as well. Sticky ammo should be something to consider and not just deadweight. If not for damage regardless of range, like in worlds, then at least for stunning (kinda like a status type ammo). Even in that role it seems to fail as it takes just way too many shots to stun a monster with them.

Clusterbomb (and wyvernfire for that matter) don't feel worth it at all. I didn't find a way to increase their damage except for opening shot so they can't be built around. This means that you'll likely focus on base ammo or elemental. If you build for either of those, it's practically pointless to use cluster or wyvern as just 2-3 shots of base or elemental ammo will already outperform wyvernfire or cluster, all while being less commitment and way faster to dish out (also no ammo changing required). We already only have 4 shots if you don't count materials to craft ammo, and are rooted in place for both ammo types. There should be some kind of pay-off that makes them worth using, which there just isn't right now.

[Poyzo]

Bring back Spread 3 from World. Who cares if it was OP, we loved it!

[Toyosatomimi no Miko]

Massive downgrade from Rise. Where's my shrapnel ammo? Where's my crouching fire? Where's my recoil control? Where's my charged shots? All gone. Can't even keep crouching fire despite it originally being added games ago so HBG can keep up with LBG in regard to unique abilities.
I don't even get to have my silly melee slap.
Also, counter shot >>>> whatever the hell that stupid hard to use offset wyvernfire is.

I just want to use my big shotgun. All you had to do was nerf pierce again, not take a sledgehammer to the whole weapon.

[Begood]

I think they noticed how sticky ammo made hunts trivial by downing monsters constantly. So they killed it. They shoulda just made it weaker in stunning power and give it more ammo capacity than we have now. At least that way we can build for it with commitment and have more variety. The special ammos are super dumbed down too. That was definitely a mistake. I honestly wouldn't have minded if they nerfed some numbers and open up more variety. HBG users are all just Rambos rn.

I suggested recoil mod because I don't think we need any nerf to get that reasonably. Shotgun build had a nice playstyle. To add to that, special ammmos need some buff besides gattling gun. Anything beyond that, I don't think the devs liked how it all performed.

[Drakanen]

i am playing hgb normal amunation and i am quite happy with the damage i am doing, other may do more, but i just dont care, i like my 150 damage per shot on a weak spot of the arkvell

[Musica]

People are not understanding.

THE ISSUE IS NOT DAMAGE

It's the feel, we went from making every German player start spurging about war crimes when we slam fired spread at monsters in World. To it almost knocking us off our feet in Wilds. Then there is pierce, the monster has to be an exact distance away from you to receive good damage when before you could ram the barrel down their jaw and pull.

I would take a damage nerf over minimal range being removed or recoil being nerfed any day. At least then the gun would be fun again.

[Netsa]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Coth:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Netsa:

I'm one of those rare players that actually played HBG because it was fun

Did your mother not teach you that lying is bad?

It's true lol. I fell in love with it back in 3 because of Siege Mode, that's why I get ticked off when they keep removing it. The power of a gatling cannon, but also the strategy of finding time to be that in the middle of a solo fight. It was basically the ranged equivalent of Great Sword's TCS. Add onto that all of the complexities of the different bullet types and attachments, as well.

I had a friend I played World with who wanted to use HBG as, essentially, a cheat-weapon against Behemoth, and I literally had to teach him how to use it. How do I craft ammo quickly when, not if, I run out? What does the rest of my ammo do, especially Exhaust and other status shots, and when should I use them? How do I defend myself against attacks (even with the shield equipped, since the block window isn't obvious and changes based on recoil)? Are Recoil and Reload important? Cluster does a lot of damage, why shouldn't I use it when the monster is down?

You might be surprised how easily people cart when they try using HBG against most of the monsters in the game.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Lavis:

Is there even capacity up anymore?

Bows lost shot types and charge levels too. While bow is in a pretty good place damage and gameplay-wise, it is also super dumbed down.

Only as a customization option, which is ironically being used as an excuse to make main shot capacities extremely low (I bolded the "two" because all Normals, including Normal 3, have historically had very large magazines to counteract their lower burst damage, medium range, and lack of AoE).

Sorry to hear about what happened to Bows. I don't play them, but some of my friends do and they made it sound like it was pretty much the same so I didn't know.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Begood:

LBG also lost a lot of versatility as a support and that's what I used it for in World.

So ALL the ranged weapons got slammed? What the hell.

[FallenActual]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Netsa:

I'm one of those rare players that actually played HBG because it was fun, and not because it was strong. I loved customizing the gun, choosing and crafting ammo, testing its performance, all of those technical aspects that made it feel like a real machine. I used Normal 3 HBGs as secondary weapons in every game since 4 (3, technically, but that game had the build-a-beargun system).

In Wilds, the weapon feels streamlined to the point of... not being an HBG anymore. It's just not. It's a slow LBG. I don't want slow-LBG, I want the HEAVY. Where's the BEEF?! Why do the devs think I chose to pick up an irrationally large gun? So I could block with an SnS shield while I rapid-fire peanuts from my tiny te-, *ahem* clips? If I wanted to do that, I'd pick up an LBG!

No, I chose to forego the shield in every single game because I wanted a big barrel with big power. What is difficult to understand about this, Capcom?

Normals are forced to rapid-fire now, which is weird since HBG isn't a rapid-fire weapon. Recoil is gone, which means you can't reconfigure the recoil. Shields are permanently affixed, which means you can't reconfigure the barrel. Deviation certainly isn't a thing anymore. Wyvernsnipe has been turned into Slow Wyvernheart, so reconfiguring the special ammo is more of a formality than anything else.

Basic ammo types are all infinite, but that's a double-edged sword since any ammo level lower than the max level can no longer be used. That means you can't exhaust lvl 3 ammo and then switch to lvl 2 ammo to keep firing. You only have lvl 3, so you can only reload. Because that's what a GUN needs. LESS pewpew.

Several guns that used to be Normal 3 are now Normal 2 or not Normal at all. I built the first Normal 3 gun I saw, which was Arkveld's, but there's something peculiar about Arkveld's gun: it's stats make no sense. Even on it's maximum upgrade, and despite the fact that it can't fire any other shots besides Wyvern and Dragon, its base Normal clip is two. TWO. TWO?! This same gun has Tetrad Shot, which means any clip size below 4 is pointless. So it's either waste both customization slots on Normal Magazine, or switch to using Pierce or Spread 1 on what's supposed to be a Normal gun.

Not that the customization slots are being used for anything. What are my choices here? Slightly higher damage, 1 extra shot, or... that's it. That's everything. Who cares? Who would ever care?

This stuff is on top of losing basically everything from Iceborne, Rise, and Sunbreak. No special scope, no wyvernsnipe, no charged shots, and crouch fire removed AGAIN. In their place... I can now clash sometimes. And I got an offset! Woo...

Why didn't they just lower the damage?!
Why did they instead take a machete to every single aspect of the gun until it's a bloody, unrecognizable mess? This is the worst and most boring incarnation of the Heavy Bowgun the series has ever had.

this is what kept me from playing HBG this time around i heard they butchered it

[Netsa]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Begood:

I think they noticed how sticky ammo made hunts trivial by downing monsters constantly. So they killed it. They shoulda just made it weaker in stunning power and give it more ammo capacity than we have now. At least that way we can build for it with commitment and have more variety.

Might be a hot take, but I honestly don't think Sticky should have ever existed. It's not even really a functionality guns should have, that's Blunt's purview. At best, Sticky should just be a cool AoE explosion, not a way of stunning the monster.

I don't like it since it harms people's view of the weapon, opens up cheese tactics, and isn't even very fun to do. It's a status shot when it could and probably should be a damage shot.

[Lavis]

Bow is still in a good place, new moveset and mechanics play nicely and are fun -but I'm not a fan of further dumbing down the series. It's kind of like if they removed phial type from switch axe and made them all a universal phial. Not the end of the world but removes a lot of flavour and choice.

Bowguns though..while every other weapon has new fun movesets and mechanics, bowguns feel like they took 3 steps back between the lack of new moves, ammo types and customization options. I hope you guys get some nice additions soon because they don't feel good to play right now.

[Matt & the Cat]

Yeah, I tried hbg out and I wanna like it but theres no zinogre no recoil/spread3 tank machine

[Snacksville]

I miss Siege Mode, and my Daora Ceti