Insect Glaive is a BIG problem, and I don't think Capcom is going to fix it

[kukukachu]

I shouldn't have to play any game with a claw grip, and controls should be intuitive. These controls are completely clunky, and they feel bad, but that's not the only problem. You also have the fact that IG relies HEAVILY on wounds and hitting those wounds in order to replenish your buffs. This become as REALLY big problem when you're playing multiplayer...If all the other players are taking the wounds, there's no way to easily replenish those buffs after using your special attack. Capcom has made the new IG's focus around the importance of those wounds, yet has created a problem, where the IG cannot get a guarantee on them...And lastly, they got rid of the helicopter, maybe. I've heard rumor that there could be an item that you can get later that allows you to extend the amounts you can vault, but that's just rumor. From what I've played, there needs to be at least 1 more vault after the initial one so that the IG player can reposition better.

Right now, within this beta, it feels like they didn't thoroughly playtest the IG, not even close. Quite the oversight on many aspects of it. Disappointing. I'm hoping these issues are remedied before release, because if they're not, this is yet another Monster Hunter that is a No for me.

[Scipo0419]

Originally posted by Smug Kot:

Originally posted by Fraktal:

This lmao

I had issues with almost every weapon I tried….at first. I learned the controls and the differences and I ended up loving Lance/IG/GS/bowguns at the end of the beta. Oh hammer too.

I mean, doing only your lowest damage move, that was intended for dodging and mounting is as good as a HH user only cornering dotting healing songs. Both are helping, but they would help a lot more if they used their kit properly.

And guess what Capcom did? Nerfed the hell out of Corner Horning by boosting the aggro generated when playing songs and making your recitals do bonkers damage when they actually hit a monster. Plus in GU they added my favorite mechanic to HH (I wish they'd bring it back, but I understand why it doesn't work now) with double notes when you hit a monster with an attack, play a song comprised of all double notes? It plays the current song and echoes the last song you played! GU forward, HH had no reason to be corner Horning because Capcom hated that playstyle and made it much better to be in the monsters face. Kind of like what they did with IG, they aerial combat went further than they wanted so they toned it back and honed in on the bond with the kinsect. I love it!

[FuyuNoSora]

Originally posted by Goblin:

So a skilled aerial IG player was en par with a casual/poor ground IG player.

That's.. not a glowing recommendation for keeping aerial.

With casual I mean skilled people who are not speedrunners. Speedrunners represent the 0,00001% of players, and what they do heavily depends on many other factors and personal decisions.

Like Urkikk said, the low dmg of some IG players, stems from people taking 1-3 minutes just collecting the bug extracts, not hitting the monster at all. Yes, there are noob IG players too, who don't use Aerial gems, don't land the last hit on a weakspot, don't hit weakspots and hit air, not the monster.

The myth of helicoptering having no combos and doing no damage still exists, but I'm actively fighting it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la8WiJFCiVE

I think the most stupid think about IG in MHW is the extracts system. The bug should be able to collect white and red at once, and that a bit more with autoaim or a special attack, that makes it more easil. Instead it often turns into a "clutch claw" like "can't hit the right spot" thing, especially for players who have under 300 hours with IG.

[Poyzo]

Originally posted by FuyuNoSora:

Originally posted by JPM岩:

IG was NEVER designed to be an aerial weapon, it was designed in MH4 as a weapon that could self boost, and have an aerial dodge, while being able to mount easier. That's why it's aerial moves have always been so incredibly weak compared to ground. It's why kinsect has been buffed, and now part of combos.

incredibly weak, just shows that you never were interested in aerial. The dmg output for the casual player is on par with ground, but requires more skill and knowledge. Staying on the ground is easy, whily flying and doing damage, that's the hard and also fun part.

LOL x100. NO! Staying in the air avoiding ALL attacks aka to cheese them is not hard at all. Out of ALL of the weapons we have aerial IG is the easiest to use - no debate to be had.

[Urkikk]

Originally posted by FuyuNoSora:

I think the most stupid think about IG in MHW is the extracts system. The bug should be able to collect white and red at once, and that a bit more with autoaim or a special attack, that makes it more easil. Instead it often turns into a "clutch claw" like "can't hit the right spot" thing, especially for players who have under 300 hours with IG.

Insect Glaive in Iceborne is not as heavily rely on extract as much as other iteration did.
it still can pack a punch even without red and white due to descending thrust and kinsect drill.

In Iceborne, it's possible to still dish out a lot of damage without touching red extract at all in many match up to some degree with descending thrust and unenchanted aerial moveset, alone, due to unenchanted aerial moveset has less animation commitment, making it more mobile than enchanted counterpart, for more precise descending thrust attacks, etcs.

you can choose to do descending thrust while collecting extract along the way with kinsect drill, pair with a bit of other moves and now you know how to keep fighting without losing much momentum when collecting extract.

I just want Insect Glaive's extract mechanics to stay further from "charge the gauge and discharge all at once" kind of gimmick, and Iceborne has that thing going on with it, even if it's seem unintentional, there were reasons, advantage and disadvantage for have and not having certain extracts, and it was interesting.

But people are so into with " *monke noises* Triple buff good! otherwise bad! " and ignore the point of having 3 different extract to begin with.
if it keep going like this, they may as well just remove 3 extract thing and make it 1 color(not counting green extract) with fill the gauge mechanic, and sprinkle with Wild Switch Axe treatment instead. That's a funny idea actually.

[Poyzo]

Originally posted by Alphard:

Originally posted by Goblin:

So a skilled aerial IG player was en par with a casual/poor ground IG player.

That's.. not a glowing recommendation for keeping aerial.

nobody cares how optimal a playstile is, what everybody cares is that a weapon must be FUN. this is a game, not some engineering process you have to optimize ( even some people treat it as such). IG was vety fun, now much less

It was "FUN" because it was the easiest playstyle to be had: zero challenge, zero risk. Aerial IG users didn't want any resistance, any ounce of difficulty. They just wanted to cheese the fight which Capcom had come out and said it wasn't suppose to be used in that way.

Capcom: Movement and mounting
Bad players: NO! We are going to make it our main form of attack... actually, our ONLY form of attack!
Capcom: *removes it in Wilds*
Non-aerial IG users: LOL - good. Darn leeches who did zero DPS in multiplayer.

[Poyzo]

Originally posted by Smug Kot:

Originally posted by Fraktal:

This lmao

I had issues with almost every weapon I tried….at first. I learned the controls and the differences and I ended up loving Lance/IG/GS/bowguns at the end of the beta. Oh hammer too.

I mean, doing only your lowest damage move, that was intended for dodging and mounting is as good as a HH user only cornering dotting healing songs. Both are helping, but they would help a lot more if they used their kit properly.

Aerial IG users weren't helping at all. If one was an aerial IG user during a Kulve or Safi hunt and time ran out, then that aerial IG users was the sole reason we ran out of time. Everybody else did 32% damage while that aerial IG user did 4% (if that!).

[Urkikk]

Originally posted by Poyzo:

Originally posted by Smug Kot:

I mean, doing only your lowest damage move, that was intended for dodging and mounting is as good as a HH user only cornering dotting healing songs. Both are helping, but they would help a lot more if they used their kit properly.

Aerial IG users weren't helping at all. If one was an aerial IG user during a Kulve or Safi hunt and time ran out, then that aerial IG users was the sole reason we ran out of time. Everybody else did 32% damage while that aerial IG user did 4% (if that!).

That's a dumb way to blame someone.

I saw an Aerial IG user contribute to 40% of overall damage on Fatalis, and not with low dps either. I can tell because I was using damage meter from multiple Fatalis hunt with other people to compare it, and that guy just appear like a sore thumb in it, that Fatalis hunt was only around 6 minutes too, so.

Aerial IG on MR Kulve is a good strat, feed your kinsect and kinsect drill in 1st phase, they can break the golden part before it even heated up.
Otherwise Kulve's entire body are still easy damage, so it's very unlikely for them to be burden unless they're bad at using IG at all.

Safi is not Aerial friendly to begin with anyway due to massive wings hitboxes and flinch, with maybe exception on final phase but it kinda pointless due to HZV are mostly for ranged weapon, and Safi wings cannot be tenderize in anyway, you can try break it back but that pretty much it.

[Wally]

I really dont see the problem, glaive just got stronger

[Mythily]

Originally posted by Poyzo:

Capcom: Turn it into a clunky longsword with kinsect gimmick cuz who wouldn't like another weeb stick right? XD

That's how it is.

[ホロ]

I understand why they removed the aerial attacks, and honestly, I'm fine with focusing on ground play using Ig .

However, my main disappointment is that some aerial attacks, like light attacks, feel disconnected, unsatisfying to land, or awkward to execute.

There should at least be a smooth transition after landing a light aerial attack, making it flow seamlessly into a follow-up ground attack.

[FuyuNoSora]

Originally posted by Poyzo:

It was "FUN" because it was the easiest playstyle to be had: zero challenge, zero risk. Aerial IG users didn't want any resistance, any ounce of difficulty. They just wanted to cheese the fight which Capcom had come out and said it wasn't suppose to be used in that way.

Seems IG is bugging you. If flying thorugh the air = cheese, then stop eating chicken or using airplanes, "flying is evil"!

This all reminds me of using Dedede in Smash Wii U, I was learning him, and the one move I used the most was the Gordo throw. I got it down so well, that I could hit an oponnent miles away, some could never reach the stage again, and naturally those people complained the most "noob!", "learn to play!" and many other bad words and phrases, just for losing...

IG users were always outcasts, they were always looked down upon and it will always continue this way, because it has the word "insect" in it, and many people have fear of insects. Some people even use anti-IG slang: "bugstick", as if it's some form of garbage.

IG only seems like an easy weapon, the freedom and speed you gain mean nothing if you can't control it, and that's the hard part of the weapon.

[Alphard]

Originally posted by Poyzo:

Originally posted by FuyuNoSora:

incredibly weak, just shows that you never were interested in aerial. The dmg output for the casual player is on par with ground, but requires more skill and knowledge. Staying on the ground is easy, whily flying and doing damage, that's the hard and also fun part.

LOL x100. NO! Staying in the air avoiding ALL attacks aka to cheese them is not hard at all. Out of ALL of the weapons we have aerial IG is the easiest to use - no debate to be had.

avoid all attacks? with broken hitboxes of most monsters it was often riskier to jump around the monster because you coulnt tell if an attack would connect the monster body mass to you or not

[FuyuNoSora]

Originally posted by Urkikk:

But people are so into with " *monke noises* Triple buff good! otherwise bad! "

Red extract gives more damage, white extract makes you faster + adds dmg combined with red, so this two are a must for me personally.

What I disilke: I understand that the buffs wane with time, but if you have 2 or 3 extracts blinking, and let's say your bug is carrying a red extract at that moment, and you call it back, but instead of recharing at least the red buff, it all blinks and vanishes together with your collected extract, this is bothersome.

It's also bothersome having to feed the bug slingershots every 3 minutes so it can carry two extracts at once and does more damage, this is too much work that is distracting from hitting the monster.

This are just 2 out of dozen other reasons why IG is such a hard weapon.

[JPM岩]

Originally posted by FuyuNoSora:

Originally posted by Poyzo:

It was "FUN" because it was the easiest playstyle to be had: zero challenge, zero risk. Aerial IG users didn't want any resistance, any ounce of difficulty. They just wanted to cheese the fight which Capcom had come out and said it wasn't suppose to be used in that way.

Seems IG is bugging you. If flying thorugh the air = cheese, then stop eating chicken or using airplanes, "flying is evil"!

This all reminds me of using Dedede in Smash Wii U, I was learning him, and the one move I used the most was the Gordo throw. I got it down so well, that I could hit an oponnent miles away, some could never reach the stage again, and naturally those people complained the most "noob!", "learn to play!" and many other bad words and phrases, just for losing...

IG users were always outcasts, they were always looked down upon and it will always continue this way, because it has the word "insect" in it, and many people have fear of insects. Some people even use anti-IG slang: "bugstick", as if it's some form of garbage.

IG only seems like an easy weapon, the freedom and speed you gain mean nothing if you can't control it, and that's the hard part of the weapon.

IG was actually rather strong, if you werent aerial spamming. Maybe in World they were "looked down on", but in 4th Gen IG was extremely strong, in MH4, it was horrendously OP.

[Urkikk]

Originally posted by FuyuNoSora:

Originally posted by Urkikk:

But people are so into with " *monke noises* Triple buff good! otherwise bad! "

Red extract gives more damage, white extract makes you faster + adds dmg combined with red, so this two are a must for me personally.

What I disilke: I understand that the buffs wane with time, but if you have 2 or 3 extracts blinking, and let's say your bug is carrying a red extract at that moment, and you call it back, but instead of recharing at least the red buff, it all blinks and vanishes together with your collected extract, this is bothersome.

It's also bothersome having to feed the bug slingershots every 3 minutes so it can carry two extracts at once and does more damage, this is too much work that is distracting from hitting the monster.

This are just 2 out of dozen other reasons why IG is such a hard weapon.

Ah so you mean that, this only is a thing with triple buff.

Triple buff is it own thing, once you enter the triple buff state, it will refresh all the extract duration but you can't refresh any of them during that state until it expire.
if you have 2 buffs, you still can refresh them as much as you wanted, which also mean you can refresh it duration when it blinking.

Also if you have 2 buffs are blinking but your next extract can lead to triple buff, it will also refresh the other 2 buff duration.
This rule still persist in Wild IG too when I play it in beta.

Red extract in Iceborne can be optional, it enchanted your combo but also slowed down aerial mobility by a good portion. yes red still lead to more damage, but there are some utility aspect in it non-red counterpart. Descending Thrust is always with you regardless in there, and experiment with all moveset even without red or white extract can be an interesting approach with enough understanding and proper matchup (which are plenty actually).

This is not the case in Rise Sunbreak due to unenchanted combo's MV got nerfed by roughly half and there are better way to move around like pairing with silkbind, making at least Red a must have in that iteration.

They reverted it MV back in Wild but locked Descending Thrust behind red extract in Wild, so, yeah Red is still necessary in there.

I like the slinger feeding one though, but I think it's a bit unbalanced because mostly I'll mostly just take a Glaive with Spirit & Strength bonus, with a rare occassion with Stamina & Healing