If this was isometric.

[=[T$CElite]= Mr. House]

If Fallout New Vegas was released as an isometric, turned based click and run game, do you think it would have stood against the old Fallouts? I personally think I would be a perfect game to turn into one.

It would be interesting to see at least, the landscape not being too different from Fallout 1 & 2.

All all new additions would still be implemented, such as faction reputation, faction disguises (not just Children of the Cathedral disguise and one offs) including the DLCs as well. I would love to see Dead money in that format.

I personally wouldn't want strong 3D graphics though, I enjoy high-res 2D for my Fallout classics.

[Sonny]

I'd definatly enjoy it more if it were isometric. It would be better in just about every way.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

I think so. With a resoration of SPECIAL and a low level cap I think it would be more in line with the intended Van Buren. Regarding graphics, I can go either way. Something with Unity along the lines of Wasteland 2 or Pillars would be just ducky, as would a style akin to the Infinity classics like Baldur's Gate or Torment.

[=[T$CElite]= Mr. House]

Originally posted by Two Bears:

I think so. With a resoration of SPECIAL and a low level cap I think it would be more in line with the intended Van Buren. Regarding graphics, I can go either way. Something with Unity along the lines of Wasteland 2 or Pillars would be just ducky, as would a style akin to the Infinity classics like Baldur's Gate or Torment.

We would even have Graham in there, though as the Burned Man not as the Hanged Man. I also feel the classic Fallout look is the way to go, I don't think the recent Pillars look would be, as it would remind me of Bethesda's 3D insertion which Obsidian were forced to follow constantly. I also find 3D isometrics off putting, I don't know why however.

We could even have a timer similar to Fallout 1 (before the 13 years patch) but this time with Hoover dam. The first being time to find Benny before he goes along with his plan and the second preparing for Hoover Dam.

Originally posted by Laudablecube56:

I'd definatly enjoy it more if it were isometric. It would be better in just about every way.

Yes, yes it would.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Originally posted by =T$CElite= Mr. House:

Originally posted by Two Bears:

I think so. With a resoration of SPECIAL and a low level cap I think it would be more in line with the intended Van Buren. Regarding graphics, I can go either way. Something with Unity along the lines of Wasteland 2 or Pillars would be just ducky, as would a style akin to the Infinity classics like Baldur's Gate or Torment.

We would even have Graham in there, though as the Burned Man not as the Hanged Man. I also feel the classic Fallout look is the way to go, I don't think the recent Pillars look would be, as it would remind me of Bethesda's 3D insertion which Obsidian were forced to follow constantly. I also find 3D isometrics off putting, I don't know why however.

We could even have a timer similar to Fallout 1 (before the 13 years patch) but this time with Hoover dam. The first being time to find Benny before he goes along with his plan and the second preparing for Hoover Dam.

Fallout-style grids would probably be best for most. I have a hard time with them with my old man eyes and hands. I have to play Fallout and Fallout 2 on my old Windows 98 machine for that very reason. I can't seem to click the spot I want to click on higher resolutions. In that sense, Wasteland 2's large grids were great for me.

I think that timers would be ideal, and exactly how you stated them. You've got X time before Benny is able to enact his plan and then later Y time before the Legion moves against Hoover Dam.

[hghwolf]

As long as combat stays at a fast clip I would definetly prefer that hypothetical version of NV. It`s my only bugbear with the old true turn based stuff; combat takes FOREVER sometimes, cause all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ neutrals gotta have their turn. For that reason alone I always try to be as peaceful as possible in New Reno.

RE: Timers, it might be fun to have quests open, change and close depending on the time elapsed since the start of the game or the time since you moved to the "prepare for Hoover Dam" part of the game.

For example Primm could be totally overrun or NCR occupied if you take too long to make your way there, or not even be Powder Ganger occupied yet if you hustle ass down there. Repconn could change quite a bit depending on when you get there, and the whole Boulder City standoff can`t last precisely until you decide to do something like it does now.

[DesertFox]

Personally, I wouldn't want to change it. I like the isometric style as well, but New Vegas as it exists is pretty much my favorite game.

However, if it was isometric, I'm sure it would have been great still.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

One thing I would like that differs from traditional Fallout is total party control, specifically tactical control in combat. The exclusion of this would not be a deal breaker, however.

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Two Bears:

Originally posted by =T$CElite= Mr. House:

We would even have Graham in there, though as the Burned Man not as the Hanged Man. I also feel the classic Fallout look is the way to go, I don't think the recent Pillars look would be, as it would remind me of Bethesda's 3D insertion which Obsidian were forced to follow constantly. I also find 3D isometrics off putting, I don't know why however.

We could even have a timer similar to Fallout 1 (before the 13 years patch) but this time with Hoover dam. The first being time to find Benny before he goes along with his plan and the second preparing for Hoover Dam.

Fallout-style grids would probably be best for most. I have a hard time with them with my old man eyes and hands. I have to play Fallout and Fallout 2 on my old Windows 98 machine for that very reason. I can't seem to click the spot I want to click on higher resolutions. In that sense, Wasteland 2's large grids were great for me.

I think that timers would be ideal, and exactly how you stated them. You've got X time before Benny is able to enact his plan and then later Y time before the Legion moves against Hoover Dam.

I've often thought about the timer for the legion invasion, makes the world more dynamic. The world moves along without you and you have to make the most of the little time you have.

I do wonder if there could be extensions to the timer, ala water caravans, and what they would be like. Basically which faction could/would benefit the most from having more time to prepare?

Another idea could be some sort of powerscale where actions against a particular faction could dynamically alter the final battle (or ideally the game world). Perhaps killing Caesar results in more legionaries at the damn fighting out of fury, etc. The beginnings are already there in regards to the ancillary faction like the boomers, khans enclave.

[talgaby]

If you would just put this as it is into the Fallout2/FOnline engine?
No. The character balance would be off, most of the map would be left completely untouched, and the quest would be lacklusting in number and in complexity. New Vegas was made to ensure you get enough play time and fun from this smaller overworld + FPS control concept. But even compared to just the Van Buren design documentation, it feels very short.

[Ladez]

Originally posted by Desert Survivalist:

Personally, I wouldn't want to change it. I like the isometric style as well, but New Vegas as it exists is pretty much my favorite game.

However, if it was isometric, I'm sure it would have been great still.

I'm one the fence about it, actually. On the one hand I prefer the isometric format, but on the other hand FNV is a damned good action RPG.

Originally posted by =T$CElite= Mr. House:

I personally wouldn't want strong 3D graphics though, I enjoy high-res 2D for my Fallout classics.

I could go with either. Mostly I prefer the flexibility of having an adjustable camera in a 3D environment, but on the other hand, 2D visuals tend to provide far more detail.

Originally posted by =T$CElite= Mr. House:

We could even have a timer similar to Fallout 1 (before the 13 years patch) but this time with Hoover dam. The first being time to find Benny before he goes along with his plan and the second preparing for Hoover Dam.

I'd like this. Would be nice to change the pace of the game from 'do whatever whenever you feel like it' to something that has real urgency.

Originally posted by hghwolf, minced pork river:

As long as combat stays at a fast clip I would definetly prefer that hypothetical version of NV. It`s my only bugbear with the old true turn based stuff; combat takes FOREVER sometimes, cause all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ neutrals gotta have their turn. For that reason alone I always try to be as peaceful as possible in New Reno.

That is one criticism of turned based play that I definitely agree with. Especially if you're forced to wait for all the animations... oh god... the animations. The worst cases are where you're facing a group of cakewalk enemies so there's no real tension.

I think some of these games could benefit greatly from having an option to resolve combat automatically, like in HoMM3 and some 4X games.

Originally posted by Two Bears:

One thing I would like that differs from traditional Fallout is total party control, specifically tactical control in combat. The exclusion of this would not be a deal breaker, however.

I'd like this as well. There's something to be said for building a party of adventurers, each with their own specific skillset.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Originally posted by Lysimarkos:

Originally posted by Two Bears:

Fallout-style grids would probably be best for most. I have a hard time with them with my old man eyes and hands. I have to play Fallout and Fallout 2 on my old Windows 98 machine for that very reason. I can't seem to click the spot I want to click on higher resolutions. In that sense, Wasteland 2's large grids were great for me.

I think that timers would be ideal, and exactly how you stated them. You've got X time before Benny is able to enact his plan and then later Y time before the Legion moves against Hoover Dam.

I've often thought about the timer for the legion invasion, makes the world more dynamic. The world moves along without you and you have to make the most of the little time you have.

I do wonder if there could be extensions to the timer, ala water caravans, and what they would be like. Basically which faction could/would benefit the most from having more time to prepare?

Another idea could be some sort of powerscale where actions against a particular faction could dynamically alter the final battle (or ideally the game world). Perhaps killing Caesar results in more legionaries at the damn fighting out of fury, etc. The beginnings are already there in regards to the ancillary faction like the boomers, khans enclave.

I think that the player action itself would serve as a delaying action. Dumping the waste on Searchlight or completing quests like Back in Your Own Backyard would cause the Legion to take alternative measures, causing a delay in moving on the Dam. This at the same time allows a player working with the other three paths additional space to complete objectives that serve their ends.

For Caesar's death, I would have it work as an accelerant, rather than delay. Killing Caesar puts Lanuis in charge, so now he arrives earlier and the Legion moves against the Dam earlier as well.

[Zamio]

Actually, I think I prefer FPS. Weird, but I honestly think that Fallout fits FPS very well.

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Two Bears:

Originally posted by Lysimarkos:

I've often thought about the timer for the legion invasion, makes the world more dynamic. The world moves along without you and you have to make the most of the little time you have.

I do wonder if there could be extensions to the timer, ala water caravans, and what they would be like. Basically which faction could/would benefit the most from having more time to prepare?

Another idea could be some sort of powerscale where actions against a particular faction could dynamically alter the final battle (or ideally the game world). Perhaps killing Caesar results in more legionaries at the damn fighting out of fury, etc. The beginnings are already there in regards to the ancillary faction like the boomers, khans enclave.

I think that the player action itself would serve as a delaying action. Dumping the waste on Searchlight or completing quests like Back in Your Own Backyard would cause the Legion to take alternative measures, causing a delay in moving on the Dam. This at the same time allows a player working with the other three paths additional space to complete objectives that serve their ends.

For Caesar's death, I would have it work as an accelerant, rather than delay. Killing Caesar puts Lanuis in charge, so now he arrives earlier and the Legion moves against the Dam earlier as well.

Yeah that’s the general idea I had

Major kink in the idea for me is that, in some respects, the Legion becomes like the master’s army and siding with them may preclude access to content.

It’s appropriate I suppose they are a conquering army but I'd like some hypothetical actions that you could take that would benefit the legion, merely attacking on time (or earlier) seems a little lacking.

As a side note I tend to think the idea of a timer potentially runs against the grain of the modern open world experience, I'd imagine it wouldn't be entirely popular as it might be seen as limiting the player’s agency.

This isn't a view I hold personally mind you simply that in my view a lot of games tend to focus so much of giving the players choices at the expense of having substantive consequences. A timed invasion represents a somewhat substantial consequence, and one that I’d expect not to be entirely popular.

[Zamio]

Originally posted by Lysimarkos:

Originally posted by Two Bears:

I think that the player action itself would serve as a delaying action. Dumping the waste on Searchlight or completing quests like Back in Your Own Backyard would cause the Legion to take alternative measures, causing a delay in moving on the Dam. This at the same time allows a player working with the other three paths additional space to complete objectives that serve their ends.

For Caesar's death, I would have it work as an accelerant, rather than delay. Killing Caesar puts Lanuis in charge, so now he arrives earlier and the Legion moves against the Dam earlier as well.

Yeah that’s the general idea I had

Major kink in the idea for me is that, in some respects, the Legion becomes like the master’s army and siding with them may preclude access to content.

It’s appropriate I suppose they are a conquering army but I'd like some hypothetical actions that you could take that would benefit the legion, merely attacking on time (or earlier) seems a little lacking.

As a side note I tend to think the idea of a timer potentially runs against the grain of the modern open world experience, I'd imagine it wouldn't be entirely popular as it might be seen as limiting the player’s agency.

This isn't a view I hold personally mind you simply that in my view a lot of games tend to focus so much of giving the players choices at the expense of having substantive consequences. A timed invasion represents a somewhat substantial consequence, and one that I’d expect not to be entirely popular.

This could be shown in gameplay by Legion presence not being as strong, their equipment downgrading and such. This way, you can see your actions are making a difference and you aren't hurried along in an annoying way.

[Incunabulum]

Originally posted by Desert Survivalist:

Personally, I wouldn't want to change it. I like the isometric style as well, but New Vegas as it exists is pretty much my favorite game.

However, if it was isometric, I'm sure it would have been great still.

I could go either way on 1stP or isometric, but it would have to be 3D either way - for modding ease, its too hard to add items with new gaphics to the FO1/2 engine.

Buuuut. FNV, great as it is, would definitely have been better with a time-limit pressure to the main story. At least the first few times around - then you could mod the timers out.

But it would allow (even *require*) the gameworld to change around you and not put you smack dab at the center of the universe - other people have their plans too and are working towards those goals so you had best stop screwing around or its gonna be Benny's world and you just living in it.