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Mount & Blade: Warband >  Workshop > Swyter's Workshop > The Last Days of the Third Age > Discussions
The Last Days of the Third Age
Description Discussions1816 Comments10401 Change Notes
SpitFire Aug 18, 2017 @ 4:44am
Gondor falls way to early
First of all I have to say I really love this mod and appreciate your effort to keep it alive very much. But for me it is very frustrating to the extent that it is nearly unplayable. I usually choose Rohan and managed to establish a troop that is quite capable of beating the Dunlendings and Isengard (which is already a pain in the ass because the Rohirrim lords' AI makes them be dumb af when it comes to battle). But even if we manage to quickly overrun all Uruk camps, the problem will be that Gondor falls very early (between day 100 and 200 it goes down because Minas Tirith gets captured) so Rohan stands alone against Mordor, Khand, Umbar and Harad (and if you were too slow still by Dunlendings or at least Isengard). This is usually the point where I quit, as it makes absolutely no more sense to continue - what can men do against such wreckless hate?
In my last campaign, I tried to assist Gondor against the overwhelmingly powerful opponents instead finishing off Dunlendings and Isengard when I recognized their faction strength was about 1400. There was no way to improve their faction strength: The lords were not recovering from their losses, instead running around with 10-20 men waiting to get finished off by the next nearby orc raiding party. The only lord with some decent troop was Imrahil, who was engaging some suicide attacks - more than one time I helped him out losing many men on my own, hoping to recover at least some strength for Gondor. Nothing, strength kept falling. The same for helping defend Minas Tirith, which at this point was permanently under siege. I fight and beat up many enemy lords, but faction strength of Gondor keeps falling below 1000.
As stated above, this is highly frustrating. I would wish some kind of rebalancing Gondor so at least they are able to hold some decent strength until Rohan is able to assist. Maybe the AI of the Gondorian lords could be fixed so that they recover and assemble forces instead of get killed instantly after leaving their places with small troops (btw I watched the same behaviour with Rohirrim lords after some lost battles).
At least, I would appreciate some kind of cheat to recover faction strenght.
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Showing 1-15 of 18 comments
RedLeshy Aug 19, 2017 @ 2:01pm 
I am having the very same problem and started a new game with even MORE special attention to Gondor, but it really feels like I am just babysitting them for the entire game at this point and it loses the "fun" element.

The problem in my game is that the enemies will conquer onnly a couple Gondor cities and than head straight for Minas Tirith with outrageous numbers. I wish the enemy would AT LEAST have to raze/capture all other Gondor cities first and save Minas Tirith for last, that would help ever so slightly.
#1
SpitFire Aug 19, 2017 @ 2:18pm 
Originally posted by gokengt:
I am having the very same problem and started a new game with even MORE special attention to Gondor, but it really feels like I am just babysitting them for the entire game at this point and it loses the "fun" element.

The problem in my game is that the enemies will conquer onnly a couple Gondor cities and than head straight for Minas Tirith with outrageous numbers. I wish the enemy would AT LEAST have to raze/capture all other Gondor cities first and save Minas Tirith for last, that would help ever so slightly.

Word. They take Cair Andros and West Osgiliath, maybe also Lossarnach, then they start siege-spamming Minas Tirith. This might be somewhat lore-friendly, but in the books the lords from the outer fiefs, lead by Imrahil, come to aid Minas Tirith. The behaviour of the Gondorian lords is what I hate most about this.

Again: I see that Gondor is supposed not to be able to hold against Mordor and the evil men, but within the maybe 100 days until Minas Tirith will fall is way too short to finish off Isengard and Dunlendings as Rohan.

I have changed the trigger for the war to start to level 16 to have some more time to establish some decent troops to do the job in Rohan a bit quicker and recognized that Gondors faction strength even went down over time when the war has not even begun...

What also grinds my gears about the sieges is that you kill off all of the enemies armys so that you would suppose them to have to take some time to recover and lick their wounds - but about 2 or 3 days they start the same siege with the same troops at 100% while the besieged city is still at about 50% of forces from the last siege...

I don't want this to sound like I hate this mod - actually I love what you did there, the scenes, the armor, all this stuff, even most of the mechanics. But the balancing ruins it for me after some in-game days.
#2
Kham  [developer] Aug 19, 2017 @ 4:25pm 
All of these are noted. We have been trying to balance Gondor, and if you can see, there is a pinned discussion with us asking for feedback after a few changes we made :)

For example, we have scripted Gondor Lord behaviour so that they will always group together (when they have hosts), instead of going at it alone. Another is that we added 2 more lords to Gondor! They have the most lords now! There are a few more tweaks, but these are the major ones.

Like you said, Gondor is not supposed to do it by themselves. If Gondor receives no help, they will be overrun. You either have to be really really good or you have to go and help the other factions finish their theater and have them help.

However, we are tweaking as we go. If you have other suggestions, please let us know!

Here are some new stuff (specific to your comments) in the coming update:
- You can choose at which level the war will start
- Gondor Lords get a bit more reinforcements after they lose a battle.

I'll look into the siege issue you mentioned.

Please continue with these valuable feedback. we do listen to them and try our best to deal with the issue.

Thanks again
#3
SpitFire Aug 20, 2017 @ 2:05am 
Thanks for your response, Kham. I think the biggest problem with Gondor is that the area it has to cover is so big. If you were willing to do some very fundamental changes, my suggestion would be to split Gondor into several realms with their own lords who are fighting their own battles. E.g. Minas Tirith, Cair Andros and Osgiliath as the heartland of gondor are at war with Mordor and Khand, which makes them still inferior, but able to last a bit longer. Meanwhile, the fiefs around Dol Amroth, lead by Imrahil, are at war against Umbar on their own, the southern fiefs along the Anduin (e.g. Lossarnach and Pelargir) are at war against Harad. When they manage to beat their particular enemies, they assist Minas Tirith by establishing advance camps. Just an idea.
By the way this was an idea I got while reading the return of the king again as the southern fiefs are not able to assist the besieged white city with full force as they are fighting their own wars. When Aragorn beat the fleet of Umbar, they all came and therefore forced the decision at the Pellenor fields. So this option would be somewhat lore-friendly ;)
#4
InVain  [developer] Aug 20, 2017 @ 4:08am 
We discussed just that a few months ago, but decided that it would be far too complicated to implement with a too low chances of success. But we'll continue thinking about how we can make Gondor hold out a bit longer.
Last edited by InVain; Aug 20, 2017 @ 4:08am
#5
SpitFire Aug 20, 2017 @ 4:49am 
However, it's good to know you're working on this issue. Keep up the good work!
#6
elliron.clark Aug 20, 2017 @ 2:10pm 
What about adding an extra 50-100 troops to Gondor's border cities at the start? That shouldn't mess with the balance to badly but increase the odds of Gondor holding out a bit longer at the start. Also it has the benefit of being easy to do.
#7
SpitFire Aug 21, 2017 @ 1:48am 
I like this idea, but at the siege rate I have witnessed (the siege-spamming I've mentioned) this would give Gondor barely an extra week before the Anduin is crossed.
#8
SpitFire Aug 22, 2017 @ 8:24am 
To give some feedback concerning the gondor issue for the latest patch: I started a new game and made the war start at lvl 20, taking some time to stabilize Gondor before war starts (hunting mordor parties etc.). This worked out quite well, Gondor did manage to hold most Cities and stayed above 2000 strength until Rohan (myself) finished off Isengard and Dunlendings. However, when they get under 2000 strenght (which at some point they will do) the problem with the suicidal lord parties is still a thing. So from this point, it only goes down, whatever you do to help them, as they are very encouraged to get themselves killed and you cannot babysit every single lord (and sometimes there are also 3 sieges at a time). So this is still kinda annoying, but the game remains playable.
#9
Kham  [developer] Aug 22, 2017 @ 8:43am 
When Gondor gets to 2000 str, the lords go off and attack parties?

I'll take a look at my gondor AI script, perhaps I should let them hold a center (Minas Tirith) when their str is that low.

The problem that could arise is that they could 'turtle', and stay indoors waiting for fac str to increase.
#10
SpitFire Aug 22, 2017 @ 9:39am 
I don't see them attacking, but the amount of enemy hosts running around is so high that they get tracked down quite quick and often. About 2000 strength is the point where it gets in some kind of downward spiral. Above that point the AI seems to hold up quite okay I think. They even managed to recapture Pelargir without my intervention after Harad took it and hold it for at least some time.
#11
Sturmdodo Aug 23, 2017 @ 2:22am 
To me the big problem with Gondor and Rohan seems to be the lords who constantly ride out with 20-30 troops and get defeated instantly. The other day i had 10-15 battles in row helping out my caravan and occasional lord i saw that boosted Gondor's strength a bit, only to have it instantly drop after 3 lords rode out and got defeated. Wouldn't it better for them stay in towns to defend until they reach a more tenable number of troops while the player rides around and fights.
We can fight the enemy, but not our allies as well :)
#12
Kham  [developer] Aug 23, 2017 @ 3:43am 
Turtling becomes a problem for the Evil playthrough, though. If the player is one of the Southern Evil factions and Gondor turtles, then they'd say, 'Oh it is boring, Gondor lords just stay in their castles'

I agree, lords shouldn't be fighting battles they cannot win, but we have to find a balance between people playing as gondor and people playing as any of the Southern Evil factions.
#13
SpitFire Aug 23, 2017 @ 9:19am 
I have to admit I've never seen it from this point of view...
#14
Sturmdodo Aug 24, 2017 @ 1:12am 
Oh, didnt know/think about that..
and btw, this mod is simply amazing, the artwork, maps, gameplay, music.... 10x better than vanilla game
#15
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