Mount & Blade: Warband

Mount & Blade: Warband

The Last Days of the Third Age
ajaxjs Nov 26, 2017 @ 8:25am
I beat the game as Good in only ~100 days: Guide
I was just able to beat TLD in under a hundred days as a Dunadain ranger, after discovering this on my Isengrad playthrough (which took ~300 cause I didn't find it out until way late).

Getting Strength 18/Ironflesh 6/Power Strike 6, and fighting a few battles without a shirt on, will get you Berserker very quickly. That gives +2 Strength, and more importantly, the ability to heal in battle.

After that, you can tackle impossible armies, like 1 vs a Mordor War Party, and just spam retreating to heal up.

That wouldn't be TOO bad, EXCEPT...Each time you retreat and re-initiate a battle, the game treats it as a second battle for ranking purposes. Thus, I was able to get ~900 rank with Gondor for one battle with a Mordor War Party.

This can be done with every faction. I managed to get rank 10+ with all of them except Erebor and Dale, which were at ~7. I was able to get enough influence for every item, and it also let me accrue a huge army. You can get a lot of it done before the war starts at level 8.

In my first playthrough, I used all of the influence to get armies to follow me around. But that's actually sub-optimal. Because once you pay for the authority to besiege a settlement yourself, you can no longer advise the marshal. That might be a bug.

What I ended up doing instead, was helping Rohan raze Isengrad's initial three outposts, then went to Gondor. I coached Imrahil into taking the Corsair Camp -> Khand Camp -> Haradrim Camp in succession. I was also able to use Berserker to solo-defend West Osgiliath. Then it let me advise him to take Morannon.

By day ~60ish, Morannon only has ~650 troops. It was definitely takeable. In my Isengrad game, it had ~1500 troops and was a HUGE pain to take. The game won't let the player besiege Morannon until every other Mordor castle is taken. But it lets the player advise the marshal to do it. There's a lot of clipping issues with the Morannon siege/defenders getting stuck in unreachable places, resulting in siege fail.

The key to ensuring the marshal's success is heavily recruiting with a decent trainer ranking (high enough to let you turn raw recruits into at least second tier troops in one night), and then constantly reinforcing them every chance you get. I managed to get Imrahil a ~465 size army, by dumping a 130 troops on him the moment it let me offer to reinforce. I did the same for every lord I could find.

You can do the same with West Osgiliath to ensure it repels the constant invasions. But I never had to.

Razing Morannon instantly destroys the Mordor faction.

Random Tips:

- If you're evil, you can get a quest to capture an enemy commander, and then...eat them. It basically lets you execute opposing lords. I did this to Gothmog, and the Mordor armies never recovered.

- If you're good, your best bet is to try and capture either Gothmog or Mog. You won't be able to eat them, but you can hold onto them for ~20 days, in which time Isengrad or Mordor's armies will be at a HUGE disadvantage.

There's a lot of free stat points in the mod. Ent Water gives +1 Str/+1 Charisma. Blessed (a random chance from praying at the grave of an ally) can give +1 Str/+1 Charisma/+20 Weapon proficiency. You can pick up +Strength, +Power Strike and +Agility items with influence.

- The Horn of Gondor, Silmarillion and Light of Galadriel together will give +1 Persuasion, +2 Charisma and +3 Leadership. I ended the game with Charisma 9, Leadership 6, and an army of ~170. I could have pushed it much higher, but the food intake gets crazy after ~150.

- Persuasion does nothing in this mod. Or else it's so obscure as to essentially be an easter egg.

- The Dunadan got his Weapon Master to 10, Athletics to 10 and Riding to 10 by level 30 (there are items which give +1 to each of these). Which combined with the Noldorin Bow and Westernesse Sword (Speed 130 + Power Strike) and ~400+ weapon proficiency. Allows you to basically one hit low tier archers by charging them with the Mearth Stallion, and to obliterate trolls by knocking them down, and then hacking them apart. Weapon proficiency and XP is acquired very quickly when you're routinely soloing large Mordor War parties.

- You can avoid the Nazgul by retreating until there's none flying in the air. I heard that Glorfindel is supposed to scare them off, but that never worked for me.

- You NEVER have to worry about the North. Gundabad/Rhun vs Erebor/Dale, and Imladris/Lothlorien/Mirkwood/Beorning vs Moria/Dol Guldur will be in a state of near permanent stalemate. Though, they'll often manage to raze the Troll Cave/Dol Guldur north outpost. All that matters is Rohan and Gondor. And in my playthrough, I actually destroyed Mordor before Isengrad.

- If you're evil...Gundabad North Clan Riders are level 20 wargs, and they're your best friends. An army of those can wipe out any army of elves or dwarves, pretty effortlessly. Wargs do crazy damage. They destroy elven archers.

- The best evil infantry is the humble Dunnish Wolf Guard. They come with wolf allies 40% of the time. Wolves are blazing fast. As fast as the Mearh stallion. They hit HARD. With ~100+ wolf guard, you can often have 50+ wolves on the field. Those wolves will often either win the battle, or annihilate the enemy's archer screen+cavalry, before your wolf guard ever catch up.

- If you're Good, you're better off just constantly recruiting/training/reinforcing. Doing this consistently and well behooves not getting attached to your own armies. But nothing really beats Rohan youths -> squires -> riders -> veteran riders. They're easy to train up, easy to find and recruit. Arnorian Horsemen or Dol Amroth Swan Knights are better, but Dol Amroth is nearly two days travel out of the way, and Rivendell is often far away from the fighting. You can grab a 100+ Rohan youths in half a day, and have em be squires by that night, riders by the next. Cavalry is devastating in TLD.

- The marshals for a faction will almost instantly regenerate, after a day or so, with a huge army. Constantly fighting them isn't worth your time. What mostly affects faction strength are war parties/caravans.

- Don't get attached to having a huge army follow you around in the early to mid game. It's often better to be able to zip around the map, racking up rank+influence, from demolishing war parties/scouts/caravans, jumping into strategic battles to help out. I only recruited big armies when when helping marshals with sieges and reinforcing them. Doing the Ring Hunters and Sorceror quest is nice, too.

- Abusing rank+influence grinding was the only thing that allowed me to complete my Isengrad game. Isengrad siege AI is horrible vs Mordor. They would only attack Mordor's advance camp, but Mordor's advance camp would keep respawning. I had to grind 100+ influence several times in a row, and then personally sherpa Isengrad's legions to castles beyond the advance camp. Because again, I no longer had the ability to give suggestions to the marshal, after paying the 100k Resources/35 influence to siege castles by myself. By this point in the game, the garrisons were huge, and losing a single siege costs you 250+ rank points and the ability to initiate sieges. You still can't give suggestions. you just have to grind and ask for permission again.

- Compared to that, my good guy playthrough was beyond easy. I never made the mistake of trying to lead sieges, and their siege AI works well.

Suggestions for mod team:

1) Change the Berserker trait to not give health
2) Do not allow infinite arrows
3) Give MORE rank, like at least five times what is given now, but not if someone retreats.
4) Tone down wilderness encounters. The one with the wolves always crashes the game.

I thought getting rank+influence was a horrific, soul-killing slog at first, from trying to do it solely via missions. But if wiping out a Mordor War party at 10 to 1 odds, gave say, 40 Rank, instead of 8, there'd be less incentive to abuse the system.
Last edited by ajaxjs; Nov 26, 2017 @ 8:46am
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Showing 1-11 of 11 comments
ajaxjs Nov 26, 2017 @ 8:39am 
The only thing I never found out, was how to get the 'Fell Beast' trait. I'm completely mystified by it.
InVain  [developer] Nov 26, 2017 @ 9:25am 
Great feedback, thanks! You obviously discovered quite a few of bugs, we'll look into that. No comments on the bug abuse :P

Just for the sake of completeness: Did you use any kind of cheats? Like also changing your player level via export/import or anything similar? I'm wondering how it's possible that Imrahil targets the Easterling capitals so quickly after the start of the war. Didn't you have to grind them down before?
ajaxjs Nov 26, 2017 @ 10:00am 
No cheats at all. Nor did I change the starting level of the war. Starting the war as soon as possible actually makes it easier, because garrisons aren't as large.

Pretty much everyone starts off as siegeable at game start. I've never seen the Easterlings get more than 4k faction strength. In fact, I never noticed faction strength keep any factions from getting sieged.

I do get a lot of messages to the effect that 'the war has broadened, siege requirements have been reduced'. But near as I can tell, even if left entirely alone, it's impossible for the second tier factions to get above that range.

I really think you ought to change Berserker to give like, +5 or +10 health, or maybe +1 Power Strike, instead of regeneration.

Having Berserker allowed me to solo Mordor War parties, which meant that I acquired a great deal of experience, and was thus already well into my ~20s, after a couple weeks of war. Using Berserker is how I discovered the retreat = additional rank gains.

That said. In the end, all it really let me do was spend more influence on advising the marshal. The real trick to winning the game was constantly reinforcing friendly lords, and letting them always take the freed prisoners. When the Easterling camps only have ~400 troops, and Gondor's armies have ~700ish, and the player is there to help, they really start to fall like dominoes. By constantly reinforcing them, giving them all my armies, and then going on a re-recruiting run, I was able to keep the campaign going. Once Imrahil goes back to Dol Amroth, he's worthless for like half a month.

If I were to play again, I would have spent time before the war kicked off, reinforcing West Osgiliath's garrison. That would've kept me from having to use Berserker to defend it.

I spent a lot of time just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ around. If I tried to win as fast as possible, I'm sure I could do it by day 50.
Last edited by ajaxjs; Nov 26, 2017 @ 10:08am
Kham  [developer] Nov 26, 2017 @ 11:41am 
I guess you are the same person as the one on reddit :)

(https://www.reddit.com/r/mountandblade/comments/7fnsc0/tld_berserker_trait_and_retreating_breaks_this/)

Thanks for feedback, we'll look into the bugs as InVain mentioned.
ajaxjs Nov 26, 2017 @ 11:50am 
Yah. I didn't realize the mod had its own discussion forum on steam until after I posted the reddit one. I figured it'd be seen here.
InVain  [developer] Nov 26, 2017 @ 11:57am 
Reinforcing garrisons and allied lords is actually something we want players to do. I'm actually thinking that we're not advertising it enough. (Although we recently added a quest that urges players to reinforce weakened centers.)

You're right about the berserker trait. I never got it so I didn't know it's so easily exploited.
Tuidjy Nov 26, 2017 @ 12:12pm 
Originally posted by InVain:
I'm wondering how it's possible that Imrahil targets the Easterling capitals so quickly after the start of the war. Didn't you have to grind them down before?
Recently the starting strength of Mordor's allies was lowered below the besieging limit, and their garrisons are between 200 and 300 men. Imrahil starts with a 700-800 man campaign, and in tactical combat obliterates any Evil campaign. With the player hovering nearby, helping him defeat the enemy in detail, and reinforcing him, he is unstoppable.

I won my first Good campaign on day 130. I stopped playing my last one because on week two, Khand and Harad were destroyed, and I felt like the bad guys from The Last Ringbearer.

-------------

As for berserk, I have been posting about it for months, but I guess it was in the general Steam discussions - I did not discover this forum until recently myself. Like all healing mechanisms (cleric spells in Phantasy, First Aid in Perisno, etc.) it completely break the game.

Stats, skill points in Iron Skin, Power Strike or Weapon Mastery are decent enough rewards. Healing in Warband is poison.

By the way, here is my Good character on day 130 something. Notice the 10s in skills governed by Strength, Agility AND Intelligence. He has not even gotten a number of stat/skill boosting traits like the ones you get for praying on mounds or having enemies defeated - no friends or enemies died whatsoever. I kept the friends alive, and I guess that enemies are never killed by the player.

The rewards in The Last Days are awesome already. There is no need for healing. By the way, the captain traits (when they used to work, I have not seen them work lately) are just as broken.
Last edited by Tuidjy; Nov 26, 2017 @ 12:25pm
InVain  [developer] Nov 26, 2017 @ 1:07pm 
Originally posted by Tuidjy:
Recently the starting strength of Mordor's allies was lowered below the besieging limit, and their garrisons are between 200 and 300 men.
Yes, but not below the siege threshould for capitals, which is 1000. So you're saying that right after the beginning of the war (lvl 8), the Khand, Umbar, and Harad Capitals can be sieged? This shouldn't happen, thanks.
Wendek Nov 26, 2017 @ 1:19pm 
Originally posted by InVain:
Reinforcing garrisons and allied lords is actually something we want players to do. I'm actually thinking that we're not advertising it enough. (Although we recently added a quest that urges players to reinforce weakened centers.)

You're right about the berserker trait. I never got it so I didn't know it's so easily exploited.

Hm speaking of reinforcing lords : is it intended that you don't get the dialog option if they're in town ? (At least I'm not getting it right now) In my current playthrough I can't reinforce two of the Rhun lords even if I want to because they are not leaving their camps anymore (despite their faction strength having recovered to 1600, Dale and Erebor are lower than that but their lords still get new troops every time they're defeated... something weird happening ?)
Tuidjy Nov 26, 2017 @ 1:56pm 
Originally posted by InVain:
Originally posted by Tuidjy:
Recently the starting strength of Mordor's allies was lowered below the besieging limit, and their garrisons are between 200 and 300 men.
Yes, but not below the siege threshould for capitals, which is 1000. So you're saying that right after the beginning of the war (lvl 8), the Khand, Umbar, and Harad Capitals can be sieged? This shouldn't happen, thanks.
I have seen it happen as soon as Imrahil makes his way from Dol Amroth to the Anduin.

Basically what happened was:
- a Corsair campaign was knocked off on the way to Anduin.
- a Mordor and Harad campaigns were destroyed under the walls of West Osgiliath
- East Osgiliath was besieged
- a Khand campaign was destroyed
- East Osdiliath fell
- I engaged and destroyed the Khand leader with Imrahil's assistance, but the others escaped
- the Khand camp was besieged, and fell without anyone coming to challenge us
- a Harad campaign was destroyed on the way to the Harad camp
- the Harad camp was besieged and fell

I know the exact sequence, because I was taking notes, videos and screenshots for a play-through, but gave up because it was too easy.

Now, it may have been that we did enough damage in that week and a half to bring Khand and Harad under the threshold - my faction strength notes were on paper, and are gone, so I cannot check. But no matter what, Khand and Harad fell like bowling pins.
Last edited by Tuidjy; Nov 26, 2017 @ 2:29pm
ajaxjs Nov 27, 2017 @ 7:15am 
What Tuidjy just described, I've also seen happen. For me at least, the major factor is whether the player is involved or not. If the player isn't involved, then Imrahil's first campaign will eventually be defeated. Because the Umbars/Khand/Haradrim just keep coming at him, and returning immediately when destroyed. And AI armies tend to fail their first siege attempts regardless.

However, in Imrahil's case, if a player is there to push them over the edge, they can easily take out a camp. Reinforcing is key.

I never bothered reinforcing with my evil game. As just being evil meant that the weight of history would slowly swing in my favor. But with my good game, I spent most of my time recruiting/training/reinforcing. Once Mordor is destroyed, the game is won.

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