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Total War: WARHAMMER III >  Workshop > Conflagration's Workshop > Lustria Rises - Lizardmen Overhaul > Discussions
Lustria Rises - Lizardmen Overhaul
Description Discussions18 Comments908 Change Notes
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
Conflagration  [developer] Mar 1, 2023 @ 9:49am
Nakai the Wanderer changes
Spirits of the Jungle Lords now capture settlements for the Spirits of the Jungle faction and the Defenders of the Great Plan vassal has been removed. These settlements are capped at Tier 3.

Spirits of the Jungle's Temple of the Old Ones Itzl Tier 2 unlock "Blessed Saurus Spears (Shields)" now grants a Saurus Spears of Quetzl unit instead of a Blessed Saurus Spears (Shields) unit and has been renamed accordingly.

Spirits of the Jungle's Temple of the Old Ones Quetzl Tier 2 unlock "Blessed Saurus Warriors (Shields)" now grants a Saurus Warriors of Quetzl unit instead of a Blessed Saurus Warriors (Shields) unit and has been renamed accordingly.

Spirits of the Jungle's Temple of the Old Ones Quetzl Tier 4 unlock "Blessed Kroxigors" now grants a Kroxigor of Quetzl unit instead of a Blessed Kroxigor unit and has been renamed accordingly.

Spirits of the Jungle's Temple of the Old Ones Xholanka Tier 4 unlock "Blessed Temple Guards" now grants a Temple Guard of Quetzl unit instead of a Blessed Temple Guard unit and has been renamed accordingly.

Nakai the Wanderer can now recruit Kroxigors from the Restored Ziggurat of Caxuatn building, but their Recruitment cost is increased by +35% until the Reactivated Ziggurat of Caxuatn building is built.

Nakai the Wanderer now has the "Kroxigor" Attribute and the "Spawn-Kin" Passive ability.

Nakai the Wanderer's unique talisman "The Ogham Shard" now additionally grants now grants him +1000 Barrier hitpoints, and +5% Ward save when fighting against armies that spread Corruption (Lord's army).

Nakai the Wanderer's "Golden Tributes" Passive ability now once again grants Perfect Vigour.

Nakai the Wanderer's unique item set bonus "Jungle Trinkets" now additionally requires the "Sacred Blade of Quetzl" weapon to be unlocked.

Nakai the Wanderer now has access to a unique weapon, the "Sacred Blade of Quetzl", which is acquired from a mission offered at Rank 16.

Nakai the Wander's innate trait "First Spawn" now additionally grants him +20 Armour.

Nakai the Wander's unique skill "Legendary Warrior" now grants him +10% Weapon strength, +10 Charge bonus and the Strider Attribute.

Nakai the Wander's unique skill "Daemon Crusher" now grants him the "Discouraged" Contact effect, -10 Leadership for enemy Daemon armies (local region), and +8 Melee attack when fighting against Daemons of Chaos (Lord's army).

Nakai the Wander's unique skill "Cold-Blooded Reflexes" now grants him +5 Melee attack, +5 Melee defence, and +10% Speed (Lord's army).

Nakai the Wanderer's unique skill "First Spawning" has been renamed to "Primordial Being" and additionally grants him the Frenzy Passive ability, and reduces recruitment duration for Kroxigor and Sacred Kroxigor by 1 turn (Lord's army).

Nakai the Wander's unique skill "Adornments" has been renamed to "Plague Breaker" and now additionally grants him -3 Wound recovery time, and +3 Horde growth (Lord's army) has been replaced with +2 Horde growth (Factionwide).

Nakai the Wander's unique skill "The Sacred Wanderer" now additionally grants him the "The Sacred Wanderer" Passive ability.

Nakai the Wander now has access to the skill "Dealer in Death" at Rank 12.

Nakai the Wander now has access to the skill "Meat Shield" at Rank 12.

Nakai the Wanderer uses a different animation set and wields a special bladed weapon to bring him more in line with his tabletop ruleset.
Last edited by Conflagration; Mar 26 @ 4:59am
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Showing 1-15 of 25 comments
Vagabond™ Mar 3, 2023 @ 12:54pm 
He could use Trespass Immunity as in This and a resizing for him (and other units) as in This
Last edited by Vagabond™; Mar 3, 2023 @ 1:09pm
#1
Conflagration  [developer] Mar 3, 2023 @ 1:22pm 
Originally posted by Vagabond™:
He could use Trespass Immunity as in This and a resizing for him (and other units) as in This
There's no reason why he should be immune to trespassing. And Kroxigors aren't that big.
#2
Lucid Z Mar 3, 2023 @ 3:51pm 
Originally posted by Obsidian:
Originally posted by Vagabond™:
He could use Trespass Immunity as in This and a resizing for him (and other units) as in This
There's no reason why he should be immune to trespassing. And Kroxigors aren't that big.

Okay, so what reasons do you have as to why he shouldn't?

Nakai starts just outside of Grand Cathay. The Moon Empress knew of his appearance. Some wanted to go deal with him, but the Moon Empress instructed them not to. Like many factions, they stand against Chaos.

Both Nakai and Oxyotl hate Chaos. Oxyotl though is the only one of the two who gets trespass immunity. I'm pretty sure that most factions who hate Chaos would be okay with a giant Lizard passing through their lands to go deal with the Chaos forces who might soon be at their gates. (Like Grand Cathay.) That's less stress on them. And I'm pretty sure the main reason why the Moon Empress told her people not to engage him.

So what reasons do you have that he shouldn't?
Last edited by Lucid Z; Mar 3, 2023 @ 3:53pm
#3
Conflagration  [developer] Mar 3, 2023 @ 4:04pm 
Originally posted by Lucid Z:
Okay, so what reasons do you have as to why he shouldn't?

Nakai starts just outside of Grand Cathay. The Moon Empress knew of his appearance. Some wanted to go deal with him, but the Moon Empress instructed them not to. Like many factions, they stand against Chaos.

Both Nakai and Oxyotl hate Chaos. Oxyotl though is the only one of the two who gets trespass immunity. I'm pretty sure that most factions who hate Chaos would be okay with a giant Lizard passing through their lands to go deal with the Chaos forces who might soon be at their gates. (Like Grand Cathay.) That's less stress on them. And I'm pretty sure the main reason why the Moon Empress told her people not to engage him.

So what reasons do you have that he shouldn't?
Nakai starts outside of Grand Cathay because CA wanted a different Lizardmen start position. There is no logical reason for Nakai to be there, none at all. He is a defender of the Lizardmen realm, he doesn't go traipsing across the continents.

Oxyotl gets trespassing immunity because he's incredibly stealthy. This is meant to represent him travelling unseen. Nakai is not stealthy, he is a gigantic crocodile who smashes stuff.

All Lizardmen hate Chaos. That doesn't mean factions would be okay with them just wandering across their lands, why the ♥♥♥♥ would they? They don't exactly have established diplomatic channels, and most people have forgotten they exist or would otherwise see them as a horde of giant carnivores invading their lands.

And from a game perspective even Kroq-Gar has diplomatic penalties applied to Mazdamundi, his direct master, if you trespassed as Hexoatl in his territory.

There is absolutely no reason for him to have it and I have no interest whatsoever in giving it to him.
#4
Fenrir4life Mar 4, 2023 @ 3:23pm 
While I'm hesitant to pile into the trespassing conversation since Lucid went pretty rude pretty fast, there, I'll note that Nakai struggles with diplomacy in general as a faction that cannot make trade agreements or do much of anything to 'sweeten the deal' like trade settlements, so while him needing to make access agreements makes sense, it's often harder than it feels like it should be to do so.
Not sure what I'd do about that, but it's not why I came here, anyway.
Just wanted to note that while I love having the Sacrifices mechanic as a factionwide thing, a lot of them don't function well for Nakai- specifically, the ones that key off of owned regions rather than lords/armies.
#5
Conflagration  [developer] Mar 4, 2023 @ 3:36pm 
Originally posted by Fenrir4life:
While I'm hesitant to pile into the trespassing conversation since Lucid went pretty rude pretty fast, there, I'll note that Nakai struggles with diplomacy in general as a faction that cannot make trade agreements or do much of anything to 'sweeten the deal' like trade settlements, so while him needing to make access agreements makes sense, it's often harder than it feels like it should be to do so.
Not sure what I'd do about that, but it's not why I came here, anyway.
Just wanted to note that while I love having the Sacrifices mechanic as a factionwide thing, a lot of them don't function well for Nakai- specifically, the ones that key off of owned regions rather than lords/armies.
Well, when I rework Nakai properly he'll have settlements so that won't be such an issue.
#6
HvnterVMLV Mar 7, 2023 @ 11:24am 
Figured I'd chime in since it appears my mod got linked here; I gave Nakai trespassing immunity mostly to address practical issues. The fact that he cannot actually get military access pacts (since he doesn't own any territory) makes diplomacy really difficult for him, even with other order factions. His starting location and nearby factions don't really help with this, either. Trespassing penalties also are weighted pretty heavily and have some pretty sweeping repercussions.

So, basically, in vanilla, he's locked into either A) trespassing - B) moving through vassal territory - B) being at war - or C) becoming allies. If I'm being honest I just kinda think that Nakai's faction hasn't found a good place yet in WH3 and is just kinda awkward. The start position is awkward, his diplomatic options are awkward, his faction mechanics are awkward. My mod exists as bandage for a (IMO) broken faction, not to fix it. Fleshing out his faction better and giving him territory would solve the problem without needing workarounds like giving him trespassing immunity.

If I had the time/energy/resources/help to just entirely redo Nakai's faction mechanics I would have done that rather than slapping him with trespassing immunity, because ultimately I don't think that's the best solution, it was just an easy option.


So, TL;DR I actually mostly agree with Obsidian here. Also, great work, stoked to check out all these changes in game.
Last edited by HvnterVMLV; Mar 7, 2023 @ 11:27am
#7
Vagabond™ Mar 8, 2023 @ 10:30pm 
Originally posted by Obsidian:
Originally posted by Vagabond™:
He could use Trespass Immunity as in This and a resizing for him (and other units) as in This
There's no reason why he should be immune to trespassing. And Kroxigors aren't that big.

I've seen two different sizes for them, one said twice the size of saurus (who were said to average eight feet tall), and the other said two stories tall. . .

As for the trespass immunity, I can't really justify anyone having it, except for mechanical reasons. . . I just thought it was a mod that made playing Nakai less murder-hobo. :D
#8
Conflagration  [developer] Mar 9, 2023 @ 8:11am 
Originally posted by Vagabond™:

I've seen two different sizes for them, one said twice the size of saurus (who were said to average eight feet tall), and the other said two stories tall. . .

As for the trespass immunity, I can't really justify anyone having it, except for mechanical reasons. . . I just thought it was a mod that made playing Nakai less murder-hobo. :D
7th Edition states that "were one to stand upright, they would be twice the size of a Saurus Warrior". 8th Edition states that Saurus Warriors are 8 feet tall. Storeys are not an exact number but from what I gather that would be approximately 15-20 feet depending on the building, which would be about the same ballpark I suppose.

If you look in game at Sacred Kroxigors, which do stand upright, they are indeed approximately twice the height of a unit of Saurus Warriors, meaning that the CA ones are fairly accurate.
#9
GsCreed Mar 18, 2023 @ 12:20am 
Btw, when I reach to turn 5 playing him, the game crushed. Any idea about this? I might need some data for this
Last edited by GsCreed; Mar 18, 2023 @ 12:28am
#10
아즈 Apr 11, 2023 @ 11:11pm 
this is very good mod, most of part. but I miss Nakai's original charge animation
#11
Conflagration  [developer] Apr 12, 2023 @ 7:46am 
Recruit a few Kroxigor Elders and you'll see it more than ever before.
#12
moster8604 Jan 6, 2024 @ 3:07am 
Hey bro, seems like Nakais quest for the spear is bugged, it did not initiate in my champaign. can i initiate it by a console command or can you have a loook? Thanks
#13
moster8604 Jan 6, 2024 @ 3:17am 
Oh... one more thing. I have probably 3K hours in totalwar 2, and 3 - but i havent had this much fun in a champagn a long time - also first time playing with him. With the vassals taking away the teddious part of the end game i can see that the defenders of the great plan will have a world conquest in the old world.

I was just thinking, maybe the old world mod causing that the quest not initiate!
#14
Conflagration  [developer] Jan 6, 2024 @ 3:59am 
Originally posted by moster8604:
Oh... one more thing. I have probably 3K hours in totalwar 2, and 3 - but i havent had this much fun in a champagn a long time - also first time playing with him. With the vassals taking away the teddious part of the end game i can see that the defenders of the great plan will have a world conquest in the old world.

I was just thinking, maybe the old world mod causing that the quest not initiate!
The mod isn't designed to be used with Old World, only IE. Any issues that arise on that campaign are out of my hands, sadly. You can indeed give him the Sacred Blade via console commands though.
Last edited by Conflagration; Jan 6, 2024 @ 3:59am
#15
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