The only way obtaining more resources during a campaign is playing in a lower difficulty level, also you can set a higher number in mod settings.

You can't extract resources anymore, you just obtain a fixed number after completing those six missions.

Ancient weapons were renamed to Impossible weapons and only Living Crystal crossbow is silent, Scorpion, Shard gun or Rebuke are not.

Repeat here since here are more comfortable to discuss.

More then strange decision, since there only one goal for this kind of weapon - to make playthrough with ally pathetic stupidrion not so expensive.
Scorpion have only 1 advantages - he dont need ammo. Absolutely useless 10 shred, Instead of of pirsing, make less damage than Raven, and especially Gungnir.
Scyther - useless since need 2 hands (dont work with adrenaline).
Shard Gun - 25*12=300 damage, Harrower - 280, if target have 20 armor the first will do 180 damage, second will have 274 damage. So it is also specialized for infiltratir/assault class weapon (because "Weak Spot" skill give additional shred)
Rebuke - useless since dont have shred damage(when you need grenade launcher it will be Vidar, Ragnarok or Fury-2 = 1 AP and shred)
Crystal Crossbow - have lower damage then Psyche CRB - in comparison with second dont have any advantages, more over Psyche CRB are usefull for killing "fat" target like scylla and corrupted node, Crystal hase no such possibility.
Reaper - hase no control, it make necessary to have Shock lance, and almost the same damage like Dagon's Tooth. 5 weight in comparison with 2 for lance and tooth, make them also situational.

In conclusion we have not an outstanding weapon, in many ways even situational or absolutely useless, the only advantage of which is the absence of the need to buy ammunition. Dont think that such weapon need additional penalties for its obtaining.
It will be normal if it will need Tech resource for production, but nothing more.

Spend time for ancient quest line to equip 1-2 teams when you need to equip 6 of them to protect full Earth hard to name "a good idea"

It also cant be a "last mission weapon" since in you have better chouse.

And one more question, is the laser weapon silent like it is in ingame description?
And the same information for Gungnir.

I only agree about Scorpion, range 58 is great, damage not so much, the rest I don't.

The goal is access to different weapons, with special abilities or not requiring reloading during mission or spending resources in ammo.

Check again TFTV wiki
http://wiki.phoenixpoint.com/Terror_from_the_Void#Weapons

Check things like Rebuke Fire 20 or Reaper Vampiric 80, ideal for berserker mutoids

Shard gun is about decreasing enemy Will as well, Scyther can destroy an enemy destroying limbs and inflicting lot of bleeding

so if you are looking for raw damage, OP, you have to look elsewhere because these weapons are special, but nerfed, although now it is early to mid game missions instead of late game, and the process is more straightforward.

Originally posted by al.aguilar:

I only agree about Scorpion, range 58 is great, damage not so much, the rest I don't.

Ok, scorpion is not a Top weapon. If Pythagoras are silent but Scorpion not ofcourse I will take Pythagoras for dangerous mission like killing scylla or corrupted node.

Originally posted by al.aguilar:

I
The goal is access to different weapons, with special abilities or not requiring reloading during mission or spending resources in ammo.

So the goal which was achieved - is to make something like "farm weapon"? About abilities I will write below.

Originally posted by al.aguilar:

I
Check again TFTV wiki
http://wiki.phoenixpoint.com/Terror_from_the_Void#Weapons

I reed it, and even make some test.

Rebuke fire damage - if you play with mod better enemies then when you achieve rebuke most enemy will have 20+ armor for almost all body part, so fire will not make any dangerous fo them, Moreover on laters game artrons may have ability "replace fire to mist" it make this 20 fire even harmful for my team.

>Shard gun is about decreasing enemy Will as well,
For which target it will be necessary?
Harrower kill with 2 shots: all trions, artrons, mirmidons, sirenas - many of them have 20+ will. I speeck about 2 shots because after killing you can escape from enemy attack line, and receive back 2-5 will.
With 2 mutation and 4 delirium or with vengeance torso, Harrower disable with 2 shots herons abdomen - after that it is not intresting how many wills it have. Scylla have 200 will, she will die faster in any case.

>Scyther can destroy an enemy destroying limbs and inflicting lot of bleeding
The same question, For which target it will be necessary?
For example berserk/hevy can in 1 turn use jet jump + 2 time hit with Dagon's Tooth and 1 with shock lance, even heron will take 500 damage +100 bleed and will be stuned. Small target like trions/artrons/sirenas will die.
With Scyther you have to use 1-2 time dash, and make 160 damage +60 bleed, target which will be dead in other case will be damaged, but you have a good chance to make them not harmful, (with sirena you has no such chance)

>Reaper Vampiric 80, ideal for berserker mutoids
Berserker without adrenaline... doth think that it is good idea at all, it is looks like very very exotic. Mutoids are not suitable to make damage, but it is very good controllers. Moreover limbs cant be healed during battle, so if mutoid try to tank, it will be crippled very fast.
But it is good for conception "farm weapon" because you will save resources on first aid kits or mutagen.

Btw, Scorpion with 140 base damage hawe 210 damage with Sneak Attack. For destroy many obstacle you need to do 200+ damage with 1 hit. Raven can do the same only with delirium/mutation or vengeance torso.
Not so big deal like for exotic weapon, but still some tactic benefit.

While making some test, find out a bug. If you launch game, and load inbattle save, then ancient weapon will have vanila parametrs.

Originally posted by finnwalTD:

Btw, Scorpion with 140 base damage hawe 210 damage with Sneak Attack. For destroy many obstacle you need to do 200+ damage with 1 hit. Raven can do the same only with delirium/mutation or vengeance torso.
Not so big deal like for exotic weapon, but still some tactic benefit.

Sneak Attack will be gone soon
And Adrenaline will no longer reduce Jet Jump cost as well

Originally posted by finnwalTD:

Ok, scorpion is not a Top weapon. If Pythagoras are silent but Scorpion not ofcourse I will take Pythagoras for dangerous mission like killing scylla or corrupted node.

Pythagoras is not a silent weapon. In fact, there are no non-silent weapons in PP as of now. We are working on fixing that bug.

Originally posted by finnwalTD:

So the goal which was achieved - is to make something like "farm weapon"? About abilities I will write below.

What is a farm weapon? Pitchfork? ;)
The desing logic is this. LOTA content in TftV now comes much earlier than in Vanilla. We are aiming at this being full alternative to Symes storyline, so the player should be engaging in first Ancient Sites somewhere in the middle of January. The difficulty of them has been also adjusted accordingly and a lot of new mechanics added.
In regards to weapons this means they will have to be something around tier 1.5 - tier 2 weapons (Tier 2 being Harrower / Piercing Weapons etc). They cannot replace Tier 2 weaponry but can serve as alternative.
Another design goal is to make them attractive to characters with lvl4 proficiency. So, for example, non-sniper with SR proficiency can Shred like sniper, Mutoid can heal with Reaper, non-berserkers can disable Sirens in one Swing of Scyther etc.

Originally posted by finnwalTD:

I reed it, and even make some test.

Rebuke fire damage - if you play with mod better enemies then when you achieve rebuke most enemy will have 20+ armor for almost all body part, so fire will not make any dangerous fo them, Moreover on laters game artrons may have ability "replace fire to mist" it make this 20 fire even harmful for my team.

Fire damage is great against Umbra, which is abundant in TftV. And even if the fire does not deal damage it still slows enemies down significantly. It's also a powerful Grenade Launcher that does not cost otherwise expensive Ammo. The vulnerability to armor is on purpose. Sniper can use that with Armor Break skill, or another soldier can toss a shredding grenade first. May be not how you play, but its viable and so far a lot of feedback about Rebuke has been very positive.

Originally posted by finnwalTD:

>Shard gun is about decreasing enemy Will as well,
For which target it will be necessary?
Harrower kill with 2 shots: all trions, artrons, mirmidons, sirenas - many of them have 20+ will. I speeck about 2 shots because after killing you can escape from enemy attack line, and receive back 2-5 will.
With 2 mutation and 4 delirium or with vengeance torso, Harrower disable with 2 shots herons abdomen - after that it is not intresting how many wills it have. Scylla have 200 will, she will die faster in any case.

Shard Gun is supposed to come earlier than Harrower, it also deals more damage and will panic most enemies (especially if you aim at the head) or soften up for mind control (for example on a Priest with SG proficiency). You can also use it from longer ranges for the purpose of Willpower damage instead of the kill. The math is really weird there too, you can apply the same Harrower+VT+Delirium logic to any weapon, but you still use other weapons, don't you? There are different combat situations and playstyles.

Originally posted by finnwalTD:

>Scyther can destroy an enemy destroying limbs and inflicting lot of bleeding
The same question, For which target it will be necessary?
For example berserk/hevy can in 1 turn use jet jump + 2 time hit with Dagon's Tooth and 1 with shock lance, even heron will take 500 damage +100 bleed and will be stuned. Small target like trions/artrons/sirenas will die.
With Scyther you have to use 1-2 time dash, and make 160 damage +60 bleed, target which will be dead in other case will be damaged, but you have a good chance to make them not harmful, (with sirena you has no such chance)

Adrenaline will no longer give discount in AP for Jet Jump. As for the target, with just a small +10% damage buff (like vivisection) Scyther will disable all Siren bodyparts it will hit, usually killing or rendering it useless. As I've explained earlier thats for a different situations besides Adrenaline Zerker. Off class with proficiency, Zerker without willpower or just choosing not to use willpower, heavy delirium builds, AoE damage against multiple clustered targets, you name it.

Originally posted by finnwalTD:

>Reaper Vampiric 80, ideal for berserker mutoids
Berserker without adrenaline... doth think that it is good idea at all, it is looks like very very exotic. Mutoids are not suitable to make damage, but it is very good controllers. Moreover limbs cant be healed during battle, so if mutoid try to tank, it will be crippled very fast.
But it is good for conception "farm weapon" because you will save resources on first aid kits or mutagen.

Other people have reported enjoying new Mattock/Reaper as well as using Mutoids as tanks etc. This is a weapon, like others, with situational use. For example your Bersker got hit by a Scylla. you activate adrenaline, strike to heal, switch to other weapon and keep bashing. Your Heavy with melee proficiency took some damage, then jet jumps and Heals the damage up while killing the enemy. There is a lot of fun scenarios with that. If you percieve everything through the prism of broken combos that's either a problem with your attutude or a "broken" combo needs to be nerfed.

Originally posted by Belial:

Sneak Attack will be gone soon

Today Sneak Attack is only one thing which keep stupidrion alive.
Play true alliance with Any have advantages with cheep killing.
Play true alliance with NJ have advantages with easy saving soldier.
It will be intresting to see stupidrion without any benefit.

Originally posted by Belial:

What is a farm weapon? Pitchfork? ;)

It is weapon which are more cheep to use, than top weapon available to you. For example ammo for Gungnir more then 2 time expensive them for cyclop, all time use Gungnir will spend alot of resources and it will slow down your development.
Also farm weapon are all paralize weapon, since in many cases there are only 1 reason to use it - obtain food.

Originally posted by Belial:

Shard Gun is supposed to come earlier than Harrower,

To produce Shard Gun you need to complete Tier 2 Viral weapon = 75+ alliance with Anu.
To produce Scorpion you need tier 2 vehicle - Armadillo.
For Scyther you need Restricted Bionics Technology - also not easy to get in january.

Originally posted by Belial:

In regards to weapons this means they will have to be something around tier 1.5

So "Impossible weapon" will be worse then tier 2, but with limit for resources and with many additional mission and research which slow you on the way to top weapon, it can be said exclusively for the curious.

Originally posted by Belial:

Fire damage is great against Umbra, which is abundant in TftV. And even if the fire does not deal damage it still slows enemies down significantly. It's also a powerful Grenade Launcher that does not cost otherwise expensive Ammo. The vulnerability to armor is on purpose. Sniper can use that with Armor Break skill, or another soldier can toss a shredding grenade first. May be not how you play, but its viable and so far a lot of feedback about Rebuke has been very positive.

Purgatory GL have 40 fire damage, in comparison with 20 rebuke, since umra have 500 HP and dont have limbs even if she run true 3 cell he will get 120 damage. Fire damage are very good for burning limbs.
Since I have resources limit rebuke will be the last things to made, since fire grenade do the same job.

Originally posted by Belial:

you can apply the same Harrower+VT+Delirium logic to any weapon, but you still use other weapons, don't you?

I Play on legend with "better enemies" and "better vehicle" without any save and restarts, i try to use only most effective ways. "Better enemies" make ancient robots more stronger, dont know if it possible to pass this site if to not use bug with stealth.
I dont use many of the weapons in game, since they are not usefull, for example Jormungandr Cannon are less affective then Deceptor MG.

Originally posted by Belial:

For example your Bersker got hit by a Scylla. you activate adrenaline, strike to heal, switch to other weapon and keep bashing.

Not a good Idea to take any damage from scylla since she have 16 paralize damage.

Originally posted by Belial:

Other people have reported enjoying new Mattock/Reaper as well as using Mutoids as tanks etc.

I trid to use Mutog like a tank, pandoras fastly use on them poison, acid, acherons cast powerful debuffs, even 1400 HP mutog are not anoth for tanking. Only vehicle can take as may damage, because many immune, more armor and fast moving.

Originally posted by Belial:

There is a lot of fun scenarios with that. If you percieve everything through the prism of broken combos that's either a problem with your attutude or a "broken" combo needs to be nerfed.

I percieve through the prism of ballance between different ways to win. Way to win thru stealth squad, which are main idea of stupidrion, become less and less playlable.

"Better enemies" make ancient robots more stronger, dont know if it possible to pass this site if to not use bug with stealth.

- Better Enemies do not change Ancients at all, there are changes in TftV , but those are aimed at changing and making Ancient Automatas easier.

Both me and Etermes above (al.aguilar) play Ironman Legend with BE and restrictions and use all kind of weapons. During the development I streamed my Ironman campaign for some time. We use weapons you deem useless, like Jormungandr cannon and others, as well as both me and Etermes find synedrion alliance very desirable with lots of good upgrades, such as nanotech, sentinent AI, paralysing weapons and mist repellers (which are a huge game changer). I think its a matter of different playstyles.

Still I have noted your feedback, thx for reporting your impressions, it's very important to us.

Originally posted by Belial:

[both me and Etermes find synedrion alliance very desirable with lots of good upgrades, such as nanotech, sentinent AI, paralysing weapons and mist repellers (which are a huge game changer). I think its a matter of different playstyles.

Mostly i spoke about fractional playstyle.
NJ - have weapon and armor for strong row firepower, and maximum protection.
Any - have weapon and armor for close combat and control.
Sinedrion - have weapon and armor for give maximum damage from long distance outside of perception range (all weapon are more accurate, all armor have stealth or has no penalties for stealth, mounts for armor like nightvision or repeller to not be detected by mist).
So if you remove "Sneak Attack " dont know if it will be possible to kill all enemy which are close to detect you especially when you have 350+HP trions with double perception. At list it will be intresting to try when you finish this change.

It will be strange if I start with Infiltrator in first team, but I did not bet on the development of stealth and damage outside the detection zone. Today this way is a most harder.

All necessary tech you can buy on Bazar, it will be not so fast but at time.

Originally posted by finnwalTD:

Originally posted by Belial:

[both me and Etermes find synedrion alliance very desirable with lots of good upgrades, such as nanotech, sentinent AI, paralysing weapons and mist repellers (which are a huge game changer). I think its a matter of different playstyles.

Mostly i spoke about fractional playstyle.
NJ - have weapon and armor for strong row firepower, and maximum protection.
Any - have weapon and armor for close combat and control.
Sinedrion - have weapon and armor for give maximum damage from long distance outside of perception range (all weapon are more accurate, all armor have stealth or has no penalties for stealth, mounts for armor like nightvision or repeller to not be detected by mist).
So if you remove "Sneak Attack " dont know if it will be possible to kill all enemy which are close to detect you especially when you have 350+HP trions with double perception. At list it will be intresting to try when you finish this change.

It will be strange if I start with Infiltrator in first team, but I did not bet on the development of stealth and damage outside the detection zone. Today this way is a most harder.

All necessary tech you can buy on Bazar, it will be not so fast but at time.

I belive its paralysing and poison weapons that is Synedrion kick, not long range/damage or anything like this. We also have adjusted some of the Hybrid tech to favor Synedrion alliance. Advanced Laser Weapons now require Synedrion late game research and Advanced Melee Weapon (shock lance) require Synedrion Paralysing Weapons. Also I believe the game is not about sticking to single faction hard and ignoring everyone else, its about getting various tech from different factions via Diplomacy, Reverse Engineering, Marketplace or Raid.

Originally posted by Belial:

I belive its paralysing and poison weapons that is Synedrion kick, not long range/damage or anything like this. We also have adjusted some of the Hybrid tech to favor Synedrion alliance. Advanced Laser Weapons now require Synedrion late game research and Advanced Melee Weapon (shock lance) require Synedrion Paralysing Weapons. Also I believe the game is not about sticking to single faction hard and ignoring everyone else, its about getting various tech from different factions via Diplomacy, Reverse Engineering, Marketplace or Raid.

Since I started this discussion and you pointed some idea for future, i think it will be acceptable for me to write my thinking.

For my opinion in vanila and TfTV there are a bug with full palazed enemy - they still discovered hidden operative. It will be acceptable if perception will decrease in proportional with paralize level, and full paralizet target hase very low perception or dont have it at all. Today this problem are solved with instant killing from long distance.

You cant paralize bleeding artron or trion if you dont know the void ability (Umbra, mark of death, call reinforcement), because if severals turn after paralize mob become with void and ability will be reinforcement you will receive many problems. This way you will be forced to kill each paralized mob with bleed "second time"

Since we have not many poison weapons, will be good to make same cooperation with other classes. For example poison may have 2 time more damage if target were hited with poison on disabled body part.

Poison crossbow have anomous high ammo price.
6 arrow = 540 damage on firs turn, 780 on the second, 1010 on the third...1830 on the seventh.
In price it is equal 1 ammo for Pythagoras or deimos = 1800 damage instantly - and this is vorst weapon in game for parametr = damage/(ammo price)

where in mod settings do you change # of exotic resources? Are they removing jetpack for 1 AP from adrenaline rush? If so I wouldnt want to dual class a berzerker into heavy anymore