I sure hope so : Using Prop Joe's Mod Manager

@Rustic "Kalessin" Citrus Ok, thanks. I'm not sure how mods which add units work exactly, but if it is indeed just through inheritance then I don't see why this wouldn't work, assuming this mod is earlier in the load order, which I assume it is in your case?

Idk if my 2 cents help, but... I think so? My original comment was made (and still is) while also using Sigmars Heirs https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2890463744 , and guns of the empire https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2856619530

@< blank > I would say probably not, because this mod works by modifying individual unit stats. However, if the mods which add units first inherit from base game units (which are modified by this) then it might work.

Put this mod earlier in the load order and try it?

works with units adds by mods?

@Rustic "Kalessin" Citrus Thanks a lot man, glad to know its still basically working despite me not updating it. Just so you know, any gun unit that's been added since 5.0 won't be covered by this mod, which I don't think is many. I'll get around to patching it eventually but it will still work on 99% of units.

This mod is SO tasty on ranged armies. I love seeing a volley of xbow bolts and gunfire of different paces and arcs, smoke filling the screen... Thank you for the great and simple work!~ <3

Ah that makes sense. Thank you for clarifying.

@PIXY_UNICORN in a nutshell, when I first made this mod I didn't really account for knockback changes. This meant a lot of infantry units would get knocked over more easily, therefore triggering their invincibility frames and making them harder to kill.

As I said though, this is no longer a problem, I've addressed this by adjusting projectile mass accordingly and now the knockback is the same as the base game.

"There was an issue before where knockback was increased but that's been fixed."
Why is this an issue?

Thanks for clarify

@Helion Halion This mod changes very little, two variables on units which have guns. So compatible with just about anything. Only exception would be other mods which change projectile speed/force.

It does make the bullets faster and therefore slightly more accurate yes, but still not so fast that they cant be dodged by really fast units that could already dodge the slower bullets.

My understanding is that this mod is high compatible isn't it ?

So it also depend on accuracy and not only bullet speed

@Helion Halion No. Mostly a visual difference.

There was an issue before where knockback was increased but that's been fixed. Might be slightly harder to dodge projectiles, but most fast units that could already move out the way of bullets basically still can.

Will this effect the unit's strenth

@Grichka Bogdanoff new patch coming this week. Will also be correcting issues with projectile force. No plans for making any different mods at the moment, updating this one is annoying enough.

Hello, waiting for new patch to try all new gunpowder units. I was wondering I you planning to do this kind of mod for arrows/bolts? It sometimes feels like they traveling in slow motion and speed bump would be greatly appreciated.

@ジャックAfter looking online the KE formula KE = 1/2 mv^2 does show that I would need to quarter the mass rather than half it, if that is indeed what they used. Problem is I don't know if that is the formula they've used.

I think when I update the mod after 5.0 I'll take the mass down to a quarter, then if it seems like knockback is reduced from base game I'll take it up to a half in a future update.

@ジャック When 5.0 comes out I'll update the mod to include the new units and see if I can lower projectile mass to correct the knockback issues.

If I may ask anyone who is good with physics, if I'm doubling velocity then surely I should cut the mass in half rather than a quarter? If I was making the force calculation I would use f=ma, because thats basic and simple for me, so do we think CA would use the same or a more complex calculation, which scales the knockback froce exponentially in some way? Which is why I assume a quarter is being suggested rather than a half.

Can confirm that doubling the velocity massively increases pushback on infantry sized units, if CA's KE calculation is right projectile mass should be moved down to a quarter of vanilla to keep the same end result

@One Esk Nineteen Interesting, I'll look into it and see if there's a way to adjust knockback force as a separate modifier on the units (I'll cut it in half.)

I haven't noticed this personally as I normally use musket units to deal with large entities to which physics is irrelevant. Don't expect an update soon as I've slightly fallen out of love with this game and updating all the units projectile force would be tedious, for now its just something you'll have to take into account if you're using the mod.

In terms of balance, assuming what you report is correct, I don't think it "ruins" musket units as much as it changes how they can be utilised. Having higher knockback force can be disruptive to enemy formations as well as delay advances, and as I said it makes no difference to countering large entities.

I think the mod is still perfectly usable for now to anyone else concerned about this.

This mod is a lovely idea, but it ruins musket units. I think it's a result of the faster bullets landing harder and causing more knockdowns per volley, which then activates iframes for entities.

I've tested this a bunch in the last half hour and when this is enabled, a lot of entities ragdoll, but the damage the unit takes is less, and the casualties are *way* less. Empire swordsmen charging Chaos Dwarf fireglaives take about a quarter health damage and lose 0-4 entities before melee start with this mod enabled. Without the mod enabled they lose about 1/3rd health and 20-30 entities.

Lovely idea. I wanted it to work, but unfortunately it's not working out given the physics of the game.

I see. I might do that. I dont think it would be terrible imbalanced, and infact would be a nice buff to what I often feel is underpowered artillery for the empire, as well as being more realistic. The AI itself never dodges artillery, so the game clearly is not balanced around that. It would force any players fighting against AI cannons to be more careful with where they position their monsters and how they advance them, since dodging would be harder.

@SouthSideSaxon There are perhaps some foreseeable balance implications with changing speed on artillery projectiles, such as no longer being able to dodge strikes, which make me hesitant to add artillery units to the list.

However if that's something you want in your game, you could always change the values yourself, its surprisingly easy! I made this mod because none like it existed and I knew absolutely nothing about modding before I started. After watching one 10 minute youtube tutorial I able to quickly and easily make this mod, because any mod which just changes values is very easy to make. I recommend looking into it, its not as much hassle as you might imagine.

Hm could you make a mod like this for artillery as well? Cannons and such ya know. I recall how much quicker artillery shots were in Shogun and such

Yipee!!!

@Delta-118 Every value in the unit data tables that this mod changes is exactly the same as base game apart from muzzle velocity value, so if 17 is default then yes I would say this mod is overwriting anything SFO changes, assuming you load this mod afterwards in the order.

For you and anyone else with issues like this, the only thing I can say is try and move this mod earlier in the load order so any values from SFO or whatever are prioritised and hopefully the muzzle velocity from this mod is not overwritten. If it is overwritten however, I don't see what I can do about it, sorry.

Doesn't seem to be compatible with SFO, at least while I was running it changed the missile strength of the Empire Handgunners to 17 from SFO's 21.

@Vircyo Thank you, yes that was the whole point of this mod. I really was baffled by the fact something like this did not already exist with all the mods there are and how simple this is to make.

Perhaps that's the reason why every mod that changes bullet speed also messes with game balance, because the creators thought changing speed was too simple on its own.

about time someone made this mod without adding their take on "balance" to it.

CA already screws us enough with how buggy guns are

@Kyokamaru Good to know, I thought as much.

seems like the calculation is as you said automatic so no real problems nice mod.

@Helion Halion In the old days, both range AND height difference between units would be taken into account when calculating damage from projectiles, say like in Medieval 2. I suppose the developers logic is that accuracy falls off over distance, therefore damage does as well, which is just lazy. People need to understand that these games, on a mechanical level, have gotten worse over time. This is partly why mods like this exist, not to improve or build upon game, but to RESTORE things that have been stripped away from previous titles.

Just to be clear, this mod does not affect damage, and should not affect accuracy to any meaningful degree.

CA should implement damage to range factor
In the early age of gunpowder the closer you are the better the damage done to your enemies
20m vs 40m the damage done will be so different that you will be shock
Total War do take accuracy into account though

@kyokamaru Thank you for testing it for me. I should let you know however that if there is a problem with how aim is calculated, I do not have the knowledge nor motivation to fix it, so it will be something you will have to consider when playing. I doubt it will be an issue though, in my own testing aim seemed to be fine on moving targets.

iff it isnt then iff units move sideways most of the shots will arrive before the units are there, there for missing. but hope its as you said calculated automatically i will test it.

@kyokamaru I imagine the function which calculates aim takes into account the muzzle velocity variable when finding final aim angle, so the new velocities I have set should theoretically be passed in and aim adjusted accordingly. Even if it isn't, because the bullets are faster now, they should still hit their target before they are able to move away.

when units youre firing on are in motion your gunners usualy pre aim and calculate where the enemy units will be to hit them, since you doubled the projectile speed dont they just pre aim at the wrong place now? Especially when the units are moving sideways to your gunners.