@Noodle Don't criticize without suggestions. How do you think those traits should be changed to make them "balanced"?

@nicebagdad

Smoker: a bunch of points for a debuff that forces you to consume a consumable that is extremely common

Alcoholic: basically the same, though alcohol is a little more rare and takes more space but is still stupidly common and this "debuff" removes fatigue so no downside to getting drunk ( not really anyways )

@TheSparta I don't see any good arguments for this.
Just don't choose it if you don't like it, you'll only lose one point.
thanks fur suggestion anyway

slow reader would be a cool trait to have eventually disapear the more you practice reading books

@Rustillery I have this trait in work but code limitations are eh. Trait will out when I will find the way how to manage it well.
Until now you can simply remove comfort in sandbox.

do you take suggestions? I've had this idea of a trait brewing in my mind for a good while. One that makes you more resistant to getting uncomfortable from armor. Name could go something like "used to discomfort" or such. A negative trait like that could work too, that makes you get easily uncomfortable.

Out of curiosity, what don't you think is balanced about smoker and alcoholic? @Noodle

Yeah it's compatible but definitely not balanced ( looking at you smoker and alcoholic ).

its compatible with lifestyle but not very balanced

@tilarium can't tell you that, sorry.

Anyone know if this is compatible with Lifestyle? It adds it's own traits and such, so not sure if they mesh well or not.

@noodle, I know plenty of functional alcoholics who never get sloppy drunk or misbehave. They just get antsy if they go a few days without a drink.

It would be nice as option at least. But it's your mod so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@Noodle Alcoholic like Smoker, kinda problem only if you can't get the drink/smoke.
You almost cant drive with drunk moodle because of control.

Sorry never responded. Yeah it would be nice if alcoholic was actually a debuff. It's only a debuff if you try to get clean. Otherwise, no fatigue just raid a bar and take sips you're good to go forever.

I suggest making being drunk to occasionally cause you to yell out loudly and for fatigue to work as it does normally to give an incentive to get clean. Also random jerks while driving would be cool. If you were to add this I would definitely make it give more points.

@hea I see, thank you for your swift reply!

@Knuckol disabled in b42

Between the sadows (ninjaway) is not showing on the trait list for me at all, tried looking at the lua's files but i'm pretty basic.

@RedMars13 Yes, permanent. You get 3 points for losing them.

In traits like Overweight/Underweight is the -1 fitness/strength permanent after getting to a normal weight like in vanilla?

@Viper you're welcome, thanks for report

@hea Thanks very much for the B41 fix!

@snunes_92 im not using github

github? Cant enter a sv that didnt update rn XD

@hea: Yes sir, thanks for pointing that out, maybe I've missed it.

@Gojita Description says: SOTO and ETE are not compatible mods.
I have no clue how SOTO works with any other trait mods right now. I do not recommend use any other traits or occupation mods with SOTO.

@hea: WDYM you're not? If you misunderstanding, let me be a bit more clear:

- I'm currently install this mod (SOTO) & Extra Trait Effect (ETE).
- The author of ETE said that SOTO & ETE are not conflicting with each other (function-wise).
- But I'm having the issue stated below.
- Yet, I cannot sure if it because of ETE or SOTO, so you may have look?

@Gojita no idea, im not author of this mod

Not sure if this is a bug or an issue caused by this mod or the Extra Trait Effect mod, but some players on my server are reporting a way to "cheat" the trait system.

I’m still unclear on the exact method, but according to them, it involves adding and removing a trait in a certain way that causes two identical negative traits to appear. The game then gives them extra trait points (as if they had two negative traits), but only one of the negative effects actually applies.

So in short: they gain extra points from duplicated negative traits without receiving the full penalty.

update: fixed issue with b41 alcoholic trait

@Viper unfortunately, you're right. I will fix it in like 8 hours.
Somehow I disabled alcoholic drink function in b41...
My apologies.

@hea

And I also just noticed another thing: my Stress levels from going more than 24 hours without drinking alcohol are not going away after drinking that beer. So yea, something definitely broke recently. I've been running Alcoholic characters a lot lately and it wasn't this way for the past few months.

@hea

Yea, I dunno man, I ran a test just now (B41) and as soon as I drank a beer, I rapidly gained fatigue. Something definitely changed recently. Please double-check you didn't accidentally alter the B41 Alcoholic trait.

@андрей я не думаю. зачем оно вообще?

Привет а можно ли получить версию этого мода до сегодняшнего обновления

@Viper
Mod has separated mod versions for b41 and b42.
In b41 alcohol counts as eat.
In b42 alcohol counts as liquid.
tldr: b41 and b42 uses different functions for that.
I do not touch anything about b41 version.

@hea

"liquid functions" ? I don't know what you mean. So, the way you've got Alcoholic set up in B41 is that the trait still prevents the player from getting fatigue from alcohol? Or am I misunderstanding something?

@Viper impossible, b41 don't even have liquid functions.
@Jzn without sharing logs I can't help you. I didn't saw any myself.

@hea

the changes to alcoholic appear to have taken effect in B41. Was that intended? I just did my normal morning get-out-of-bed-and-drink-some-wine routine, and ended up needing a nap a few minutes later.

b42, mod is installed and throwing up errors, was working fine previously, havent changed mods. new update issue?

@hea Yeah... from a gameplay perspective it wouldn't really work - it'd either be really easy to get at random, which wouldn't make for a fun experience generally, or it'd take a LOT of alcohol to get in which case it wouldn't show up in normal play. So... agreed, lmao

@Danaeri the Sweeper i just think that suddenly getting alcoholic wich you need fix for 45 days is not great idea.

Actually, alcohol addiction *can* happen within as little as a few weeks, but doesn't always. Some people do indeed take years, but it varies wildly from person to person. You do, however, need to drink *heavily*, with multiple drinks a day and/or several drinks a week, to really risk it.

In general, I want to somehow figure out the system of gaining and losing traits so that they do not break the spirit of balance.
The possibility to get all the traits during the game sounds cool, but it turns the player into an unstoppable killing machine. I don't want to see that.
In the future, I plan to rework this system, but how - I can not yet answer. I have been thinking about this for over a year, but so far I have not found the ideal solution.

@Foster It's more about personal preference to disable earning for Alcoholic. Not code limitation.
I just decided that getting Alcoholic in game is kinda weird. To become real alcoholic you like have to drink for years. So well...

I'm also just happy to see it re-enabled regardless, it's a must-have for a particular build of mine

I'm curious; Is there some kind of engine limitation with the fluid mechanics that prevents Alcoholic from being earned through gameplay in the B42 version like you could B41, or is there another reason for it like a bug or just personal preference, balance, etc?

I don't mind that much since if I want to experience that trait I tend to just take it, but I find it peculiar to remove a dynamic trait functionality like that unless there's some reasoning behind it that isn't readily self-evident.

@qqppbb b41 alcoholic working as intended, try to search problems in your mods.

b41

@qqppbb we talking about b42?