This is ridiculous.

[Indurin]

So like many people, I bought Elden Ring. I had some money on my PayPal account, so I used that during the payment process, but there was an error that resulted in my bank account being charged instead. I reported this to both steam support and paypal, I made it clear I did not want a refund for the game, only that I wanted the correct payment method charged. Steam told me they couldn't help me, Paypal said they needed to look into it.

Fast forward two weeks. Today I recieved an email from paypal saying they 'decided in my favor' and are refunding the purchase. That's not what I wanted or asked for. At the same time I got an account alert on steam saying my account is locked due to PayPal disputing the charge. So now the game is revoked from my account, and my steam account is unable to make purchases so I can't purchase the game again with the correct payment method.

I made it clear with both organizations that I did not want a refund. That I only wanted the glitch that happened with the payment method fixed. It's been 12 hours since I submitted the request to unlock my account to steam, haven't heard anything back.

[KalGimpa]

Originally posted by brian9824:

Yeah i would have just moved the money from paypal to your bank account, its easy and free. Paypal and disputes about steam purchases never work well.

this is what i was thinking. i closed my paypal account years ago, but if they had access to the account, why not just have paypal put whatever money was in there back into the bank account?

not sure what else could have been done. paypal was not going to be able to make steam return the money with a promise that op was going to buy it again.

they were not going to give them the money from the paypal account and then get the money back to put back in the bank account.

now, paypal could easily have said this to you, op.

"we can put your paypal account money back into your bank, if that would suffice" or some such

[crunchyfrog]

Originally posted by kalcuey-freehk:

Originally posted by brian9824:

Yeah i would have just moved the money from paypal to your bank account, its easy and free. Paypal and disputes about steam purchases never work well.

this is what i was thinking. i closed my paypal account years ago, but if they had access to the account, why not just have paypal put whatever money was in there back into the bank account?

not sure what else could have been done. paypal was not going to be able to make steam return the money with a promise that op was going to buy it again.

they were not going to give them the money from the paypal account and then get the money back to put back in the bank account.

now, paypal could easily have said this to you, op.

"we can put your paypal account money back into your bank, if that would suffice" or some such

Yup, they absolutely can. A return to a transaction can ALWAYS be done. Just not a new one instigated.

This is precisely why the ball is in Paypal's court. But they've been notirious for being arseholes just over this one issue for years.

I always caution to not use Paypal for this very reason. As they're not a bank they are free to skitr regulations that banks are bound by too.

[Satoru]

Originally posted by InnerPhoenix:

this is more common then people think, personally ive watched steam go down hill over the past 5+ years, just last week was talking to someone that had their account screwed over with by steam of course, and was steams fault, yet they push blame on user, these companies get away with too much.

Note given your personal vendetta of constantly insisting that your trolilng of the Rocket League forums is your god given right, and you keep insisting the moderators are 'out to get you'. you'll excuse me if your claims are less credulous than the drunk ♥♥♥♥♥ out hobo outside the dumpster at BestBuy

[KalGimpa]

Originally posted by Satoru:

Originally posted by InnerPhoenix:

this is more common then people think, personally ive watched steam go down hill over the past 5+ years, just last week was talking to someone that had their account screwed over with by steam of course, and was steams fault, yet they push blame on user, these companies get away with too much.

Note given your personal vendetta of constantly insisting that your trolilng of the Rocket League forums is your god given right, and you keep insisting the moderators are 'out to get you'. you'll excuse me if your claims are less credulous than the drunk ♥♥♥♥♥ out hobo outside the dumpster at BestBuy

damn, i just checked their history and it seems that they have been angry since at least 2012

[crunchyfrog]

Originally posted by kalcuey-freehk:

Originally posted by Satoru:

Note given your personal vendetta of constantly insisting that your trolilng of the Rocket League forums is your god given right, and you keep insisting the moderators are 'out to get you'. you'll excuse me if your claims are less credulous than the drunk ♥♥♥♥♥ out hobo outside the dumpster at BestBuy

damn, i just checked their history and it seems that they have been angry since at least 2012

What a dumpster fire!

Thye mental gymnastics involved are quite bizarre.

Imagine being that annoyed with something that you continue your made up stories for years afterwards.

I can't imagine what such people's lives must be like.

[KalGimpa]

Originally posted by crunchyfrog:

Originally posted by kalcuey-freehk:

damn, i just checked their history and it seems that they have been angry since at least 2012

What a dumpster fire!

Thye mental gymnastics involved are quite bizarre.

Imagine being that annoyed with something that you continue your made up stories for years afterwards.

I can't imagine what such people's lives must be like.

no kidding. i have been irked by games and developers. even lashed out. that is some next level stuff

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by kalcuey-freehk:

Originally posted by brian9824:

Yeah i would have just moved the money from paypal to your bank account, its easy and free. Paypal and disputes about steam purchases never work well.

this is what i was thinking. i closed my paypal account years ago, but if they had access to the account, why not just have paypal put whatever money was in there back into the bank account?

not sure what else could have been done. paypal was not going to be able to make steam return the money with a promise that op was going to buy it again.

they were not going to give them the money from the paypal account and then get the money back to put back in the bank account.

now, paypal could easily have said this to you, op.

"we can put your paypal account money back into your bank, if that would suffice" or some such

The OP said their account was overdrawn due to Paypal taking the funds from there and not their Paypal account.

Simply moving the funds from their Paypal to their Bank won't remove the overdraft fee most banks charge for being overdrawn. This can be over $60+ depending on the bank and the person's history with that bank.

So having it ruled a mistake or some such would remove the overdraft charge.

Honestly, it is a complex situation between the Bank and Paypal. Only reason Valve got involved is due to the chargeback that Paypal evidently didn't even tell the OP they were doing.

Paypal could have admitted the mistake and send the money back removed it from the Paypal account instead and the OP could have received an e-mail to send to the Bank from Paypal... but that would require Paypal to admit they made a mistake, something they are not know for.

In the US, Paypal is not registered as a bank and only has to follow some of the regulations surrounding banks, yet they continue to act like they are a bank.

[KalGimpa]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by kalcuey-freehk:

this is what i was thinking. i closed my paypal account years ago, but if they had access to the account, why not just have paypal put whatever money was in there back into the bank account?

not sure what else could have been done. paypal was not going to be able to make steam return the money with a promise that op was going to buy it again.

they were not going to give them the money from the paypal account and then get the money back to put back in the bank account.

now, paypal could easily have said this to you, op.

"we can put your paypal account money back into your bank, if that would suffice" or some such

The OP said their account was overdrawn due to Paypal taking the funds from there and not their Paypal account.

Simply moving the funds from their Paypal to their Bank won't remove the overdraft fee most banks charge for being overdrawn. This can be over $60+ depending on the bank and the person's history with that bank.

So having it ruled a mistake or some such would remove the overdraft charge.

Honestly, it is a complex situation between the Bank and Paypal. Only reason Valve got involved is due to the chargeback that Paypal evidently didn't even tell the OP they were doing.

Paypal could have admitted the mistake and send the money back removed it from the Paypal account instead and the OP could have received an e-mail to send to the Bank from Paypal... but that would require Paypal to admit they made a mistake, something they are not know for.

In the US, Paypal is not registered as a bank and only has to follow some of the regulations surrounding banks, yet they continue to act like they are a bank.

gotcha. that would blow. so glad i stopped using them

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by kalcuey-freehk:

this is what i was thinking. i closed my paypal account years ago, but if they had access to the account, why not just have paypal put whatever money was in there back into the bank account?

not sure what else could have been done. paypal was not going to be able to make steam return the money with a promise that op was going to buy it again.

they were not going to give them the money from the paypal account and then get the money back to put back in the bank account.

now, paypal could easily have said this to you, op.

"we can put your paypal account money back into your bank, if that would suffice" or some such

The OP said their account was overdrawn due to Paypal taking the funds from there and not their Paypal account.

Simply moving the funds from their Paypal to their Bank won't remove the overdraft fee most banks charge for being overdrawn. This can be over $60+ depending on the bank and the person's history with that bank.

So having it ruled a mistake or some such would remove the overdraft charge.

Honestly, it is a complex situation between the Bank and Paypal. Only reason Valve got involved is due to the chargeback that Paypal evidently didn't even tell the OP they were doing.

Paypal could have admitted the mistake and send the money back removed it from the Paypal account instead and the OP could have received an e-mail to send to the Bank from Paypal... but that would require Paypal to admit they made a mistake, something they are not know for.

In the US, Paypal is not registered as a bank and only has to follow some of the regulations surrounding banks, yet they continue to act like they are a bank.

Ah missed that last post on page 3. Then yeah, i never have paypal pull from a bank, always use a credit card for that reason as a card has more protection. yeah its a crappy situation, but its really paypal at fault, not Steam.

Sadly it seems that paypal has a very inflexible system of handling this which doesn't deal well with steam's inflexible system of handling it.

[battlezoby]

Wait... people keep talking about "chargebacks" and "possible $100 chargeback fees"...

But we're talking about PayPal, not a credit card. Does PayPal even charge "charge-back" fees, and if so, how much?

P.s. I think Ebay used to own Paypal... I'm wondering how many other companies have been merged with them since...

Btw... a several years ago, Bank America sued someone I know for money an Abitration Decision (that didn't even contact her for her side of the story(*) gave them. Turns out that:

a) State law said that an Arbration Award had to be from the same state, but the crooked Judge just ignored that in court, saying "Hmmm... that's in interesting interpretation." (Yea.. "interesting" in that it was a overt and literal prima-facie interpretation.)

b) Bank of America couldn't even produce a bill showing she owned anything whatsoever, other than the bank-fees based on the (alleged) charges they were based on, with no proof of the base charges. Friend wasn't sharp enough to catch that in court, and then, because of a crooked Court-reporter, couldn't get the court transcript in time for an appeal. I know... she did own them something, and I can imagine who many people would say "Yea... so the big company deserved to win", but on the other hand, what if it was her suing the big company with ZERO evidence they ever actually owned her anything before she starting charging them fees? We all know what would happen... virtually 0% of her winning. Why is protecting big companies so much more important than protecting individuals?

c) This is the great one... turns out that Bank of America OWNED the Arbitration Company that gave them the reward!

My friend didn't find out about "c" in time, being too distracted by trying to fix "b" instead.

Happy Ending is she eventually went Chapter 7, and Bank of America got nothing.

---

* - I'm such an idiot. I took me years to realize that part. Of course, an honest Judge, if such a thing still exists anywhere, might have asked Bank of America about how they got the Arbitration Award, or asked her how/if she responded to claim, at which point, she would have said "I didn't do anything... nobody told me they were going into Arbitration until they sued me to enforce it..."

[cinedine]

Originally posted by battlezoby:

Wait... people keep talking about "chargebacks" and "possible $100 chargeback fees"...

But we're talking about PayPal, not a credit card. Does PayPal even charge "charge-back" fees, and if so, how much?

"PayPal" doesn't. Neither does *your* credit card. The bank Valve uses for payments charges the fees.
PayPal is nothing more than a middle man for payments. You say to the merchant that you'll pay with PP, they tell PP how much they expect, PP makes sure you are a customer of theirs and that what the merchant told them is the correct amount and then they pay the merchant.
That's why merchants prefer payment providers like them. They get the money. No matter what happens.

The payment provider then collects the money from you. Either by charging your account or CC you have registered with them or by using any money stored on your account with them.

That's why Steam was entirely the wrong adress to talk to for TC. They have nothing to do with where from PP receives their money from you.

But to answer your question: yes, PayPal also raises chargeback fees. 20 USD unless you have seller protection. They might also limit or even freeze your account ... which they can do anyway without any reason. And then just seize it entirely. Which is why so many people hate them or don't even use them.

[idk]

Maybe not

[battlezoby]

Oh... here's a related story:

I once called up the company for one of my credit cards about some hypothetical question and said "So, what would happen if I wanted to charge-back <whatever>" and they said:

"No problem. It's done."

I was like: "What the? I didn't ask you to charge it back, I just asked hypothetically WHAT IF I wanted to."

"Sorry. It's too late."

WTF?

Really.

---

Wish I could remember what the charge was for.. it was over 20 years ago. It was probably either something I wanted to negotiate with the company, or maybe I was just worried that something might go wrong with some service if I did whatever and wanted to know if I'd have the option to do a charge-back if things went south. I totally had zero intention of charging back at that time.

[no154370]

somehow, it looks like majority of us totally forgot got a Steam Support article here providing information on

1) Payment disputes and Chargeback

here is the link to it

https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/783F-5E0F-9834-22D2

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Payment Disputes and Chargebacks

When a cardholder or financial institution disputes a purchase made through Steam resulting in a payment reversal, this is considered a chargeback.

Why do chargebacks result in account restrictions?

Chargebacks typically occur when someone identifies unknown charges on their bank account, or finds purchases that were made without their consent.

In order to protect our users from additional unknown charges, accounts associated with chargebacks are restricted while disputes are reviewed.


How can I remove the restrictions from my account?

The quickest way to remove the restrictions is for the purchaser to contact the financial institution associated with the disputed payments in order to close them; doing so will restore access to the disputed content, as well as remove the restrictions from the account.

Depending on the institution associated with the payments, it may take several weeks after closing a dispute for the content and account features to be restored.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and also, there is a PayPal Chargeback article here too.

https://www.paypal.com/us/brc/article/customer-disputes-claims-chargebacks-bank-reversals

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do disputes occur?

A buyer may file a dispute for two different reasons:

1) Item Not Received (INR). In this case, the buyer is claiming they ordered and paid for an item but didn’t receive it.

2) Significantly Not As Described (SNAD). In this type of claim, the buyer is stating the item they received is significantly different than they expected, based on the seller’s description. For instance, maybe the buyer ordered a red sweater but received a blue one instead.

How can I help prevent a dispute?

Good communication is important to help prevent disputes.

i) Start by providing detailed, accurate descriptions of items for sale and include pictures from multiple angles.

ii) When a purchase is made, ship items promptly, and provide tracking information.

iii) Post customer service contact information, including working hours and response time frames. A toll-free phone number is preferred over an email address.

iv) Offer a refund and post your return policy where customers can see it.

v) If a customer contacts you, be professional, helpful, and courteous.

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by no154370:

somehow, it looks like majority of us totally forgot got a Steam Support article here providing information on

Helps if you read the OP's post, if you had you'd know what you posted was useless. The issue is the result of paypal's policy conflicting with steam's policy and both being inflexible.

OP never asked for a chargeback or ever wanted one.