Best/Worst starting relic trades?

[DizzyLizard]

just wondering what peoples thoghts on this is, from my experance velvet choker is one of my favorte trades and the the coffe/hammer is my least (lizard tail i hate becuase its disapointing even if it isnt that bad) and i tend to kill myself trying to get black star to work.

thoughts?

[Zu]

Calling Bell, no contest.

[Nixmachine]

Tiny House can go die in a corner

[lytemare]

Ectoplasm (can't gain gold for the entire run) is probably the worst trade. For the Silent it may also be Coffee Dripper (since Silent doesn't have heal).
Lizard Tail and Tiny House are also quite sad trades for any of the starting relics.

As for best, an early Snecko Eye, Runic Pyramid or Inserter can allow you to build an insane deck around it. Any energy without a considerable downside is also great.

[burningmime]

Originally posted by Zu:

Calling Bell, no contest.

True dat, although I have won a run where I traded Defect's starter relic and got a Calling Bell. The bell gave me Thread & Needle, so I thoght "what the hell" and it turned out OK. Was A7 or something; probably would've died at A15.

[Salt Miner]

Tiny house is probably the worst in pure power, but i like that it always at least helps you. Sneko eye is bleh in anything other than ironclad.

I would say busted crown is the worst.

[Whalefat]

The worst boss relic to trade for is honestly Busted Crown and here is my reasoning. The start of the game (first floor) is all about gaining momentum to take on the next floors via card choice, relic aquisitition, aquiring potions, and upgrading cards. Taking busted crown means less card choice from fights, which cripples your chance at getting cards from enemy drops and dampers your ability to really get a good deck going. It basically is the equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot when you start the game in return for an extra action each turn. As for the best, it depends on your charecter. For the silent- Runic pyramid or Snecko hands down. For the Defect, Inserter and Snecko are probably the best. As for the iron clad, you probably shouldnt trade his relic because its so damn good, but if you were to trade it youd probably hope for Snecko.

[My Name is Mud]

Snecko Eye is the worst relic in the game.

Any trade that doesn't net extra energy is a fail, and even then Philosopher's Stone is trash without an incredibly specific setup. Busted Crown and the new Coffee Cup thing I don't remember the name of are also both good relics, but not good *starter* relics as they rely on you more or less having your deck ready to rock. You're basically rolling to hit Sozu or Cursed Key, let's be real here. Most of the other outcomes range from "bad" to "well it doesn't suck but the risk doesn't make a ton of sense given the odds and I'm doing this to amuse myself".

Trading your starting relic is dumb and bad. Stop.

[Drecon]

Snecko eye is the best to start with probably. It's pretty easy to abuse, although it requires some experience. Worst used to be Runic Pyramid, but maybe the new version is a bit better. I haven't used it yet.

Most energy relics are really strong and any relic that fundamentally changes the way you approach the game tend to be abusable as well.

[CATGIRL]

Originally posted by Death From Above:

Snecko Eye is the worst relic in the game.

Snecko Eye is probably the best boss relic in the game. You should default to taking it unless your deck isn't compatible with it, rather than not taking it.

Trading your starting relic is good if you're The Silent or The Defect. The only one it's actually bad on is Ironclad, because Burning Blood is amazing.

Source: http://spirelogs.com/stats/ironclad/boss-relics.php
http://spirelogs.com/stats/silent/boss-relics.php
http://spirelogs.com/stats/defect/boss-relics.php

Snecko Eye is in the top 5 win% reward from start AND boss 1 for all 3 characters. Drawing 2 more cards per turn is incredible, and the Confusion typically doesn't matter to most decks, and is a super net positive once you understand that cost doesn't mean anything anymore.

[Requiem31]

The one when you double clicked too fast on it.

["Donut☆]

I didn't like it when I got that relic where you can't rest anymore.

Also, am I the only one who always trades in the starting relic of the Defect? I think his starting relic is very underpowered.

[Zu]

That's certainly one way of losing out on 16 damage for 1. LUL

[Scrof]

Originally posted by Death From Above:

Trading your starting relic is dumb and bad. Stop.

You win some, lose some, it's all the same to me.

[Songbird]

Originally posted by Touko:

Originally posted by Death From Above:

Snecko Eye is the worst relic in the game.

Snecko Eye is probably the best boss relic in the game. You should default to taking it unless your deck isn't compatible with it, rather than not taking it.

Trading your starting relic is good if you're The Silent or The Defect. The only one it's actually bad on is Ironclad, because Burning Blood is amazing.

Source: http://spirelogs.com/stats/ironclad/boss-relics.php
http://spirelogs.com/stats/silent/boss-relics.php
http://spirelogs.com/stats/defect/boss-relics.php

Snecko Eye is in the top 5 win% reward from start AND boss 1 for all 3 characters. Drawing 2 more cards per turn is incredible, and the Confusion typically doesn't matter to most decks, and is a super net positive once you understand that cost doesn't mean anything anymore.

The game does not work anything like "just play high-cost cards and win". The fact that you can and will get turns where you're looking to take 40 damage and can only play one card from your hand is AWFUL. Consistency matters hugely in this game. Something like 75% of the cards in the game are 0, 1, or X energy and will have their cost increased or remain the same. Even 2-cost cards only have a 50% chance of cost reduction and a 25% chance of cost increase. Draw cards normally cost 0 or 1 energy so you can play cards after them; now they are dead half the time. You are giving up all this just to make Demon Form or whatever easier to play most but not all of the time. The only time Sneko will be consistent is with a Meteor Storm deck because you're actually guaranteed to generate energy in that case, or in a deck with high density of Bullet Time (in which case, just take an energy relic and throw in a Backflip and/or Acrobatics instead).

Literally every time I've taken Sneko on Ironclad or Silent I'd be cruising along playing 2-cost cards for cheap for a while, but having a turn every one or two combats where I'd just get hammered because everything in my hand would cost 2 or 3. That is significantly worse than what you get in an average run.

[Zu]

Originally posted by Lupus Albus:

Literally every time I've taken Snecko on Ironclad or Silent I'd be cruising along playing 2-cost cards for cheap for a while, but having a turn every one or two combats where I'd just get hammered because everything in my hand would cost 2 or 3. That is significantly worse than what you get in an average run.

You're misleading yourself by focusing on the outliers rather than the average performance throughout the run. That one shítty turn is redeemed by the turns when you're playing 5 energy worth of cards facilitated by the +2 card draw, which is a huge deal. It's like drawing and playing two innate copies of machine learning.

So besides generating a flat 2.5 energy of tempo every combat, you're cycling faster so removing strikes is less important, meaning that you can spend that gold on other things. And contrary to your evaluation, cards that do nothing but draw you more cards are still very serviceable because they give you more chances to cheat the system.

TL,DR:
You had a few bad experiences with the relic so you're writing it off with the excuse of the 1.5 energy average, but that's like saying rampage is a bad card since it works so much better if you have 4 energy rather than 3.

Keep trying, check out a few Snecko runs if you're stumped, and you'll see it's a reasonable pick.