Struck a steel wall getting past Ascension 11: any suggestions?

[eternalreturn]

Last year I decided I'd just try to get all the non-character-specific achievements with the Ironclad.

Things were going fine until I got Ascend 10 last April; I cannot, for the life of me, complete 11; and I keep failing all the other remaining (non-character specific) achievements.

I've gone with the Defect a few times, when my frustration with failing Ironclad hits a breaking point, and I'm pretty sure Focus will be attainable, especially if I really put a measured effort in (Defect is still at 1, so no real challenges, per se).

But.

I decided I wanted to use the Ironclad to go 20, and gah, It's killing me.

So, any suggestions to get through this steel wall I seem to have encountered, much appreciated Also, one quick word to say I really shoulda gotten Minimalist with Purity, but I accidentally got stuck with a curse before the final battle.

Thanks, for any advice/shared experience

[melphel]

This isn't specific to ironclad or ascension 11.

In general, slow down and think through the best way to mitigate the damage you will take every turn. That doesn't necessarily mean that you need to prioritize block cards, sometimes killing an enemy results in less damage taken than just playing defends. Many enemies get stronger the longer a fight goes on, trading hits with them early on can result in higher overall HP by the end of the fight. Do some math and weigh your options.

Remember that you can look at what cards are in your draw and discard piles, plan ahead.

Its hard to give advice on this, but try to get a sense for which cards are the most helpful at the time. For example, Cleave might trivialize act 1 encounters against groups of slimes or gremlins, and it might be a better early pick than some rare cards even if the rare card would fit well in an endgame deck.

In the three sentries elite fight, focus on one of the sentries on the end first so you don't have to block two sentries on their turn.

Save fruit juice potions until you need the HP or you really need to pickup another potion. Using fruit juice after sacrificing max HP for the vampire Bite or Apparition events is better than using the juice beforehand and losing part of the HP from the juice.

[mldb88]

Yea A11 was a rough spike in difficulty when climbing with Chaddicus, since it starts really forcing you to think about deck composition a lot more now that bosses are even stronger. Some general tips to help carry you through to A20:

1-if you’re still thinking in terms of archetypes and going for “builds” like a strength deck, an exhaust deck, a block deck, etc, stop that lol. Shift your thinking more in terms of synergies with what you already have available. For example I’ve run both corruption dead branch combo with strength scaling due to the relics I had at the time working well with both. TLDR don’t limit yourself to one “type” of deck.

2- in act 1, a good offense is your best defense, and if you want to tackle a ton of elites while the goings easy, you’ll need some efficient damage early. Most act 1 elites are damage races (nob punishes blocking, lagamuffin punishes stall by debuff, sentry fills your deck with crap). Depending on your boss encounter add more block towards the later 1/3rd of the act especially in preparation for guardian.

3- don’t be afraid to add a one off power that doesn’t synergize just to cover a weakness. Up against slimer or hexa act 1 and you see a fire breathing along side two sub-par cards? Snag it if you feel your deck might not have the damage output. Having a well rounded yet consistent deck (balance of cards that do similar things to fit your strategy) is key.

4- The skip option is your friend. Didn’t really sink in for me until A20 so saving you the headache here if you get this down early lol.

5- make the most of upgrades. As your ascension levels get higher, odds are you’ll get less opportunities at campfires where you’re not stuck healing. Chads the one exception but I still tend to assume I’ll only get one upgrade campfire per act so I make the most of my upgrades. Bash is usually a pretty solid bet early.

6- don’t rely on “finding” that one card. For example, if you see a rupture, a pommel stroke and a feel no pain early, grab the pommel. Everything else will be dead weight unless you find something to work with it (which, with my luck, normally didn’t happen).

7- weigh the risks for events. As I climbed higher I stopped even risking certain events (tomb is almost never worth, reach for relic usually cost too much health for a crap relic, snake gold depends on if a shop is near to immediately ditch doubt for profit). Many events that offer risk/reward are already traps at high ascension, not to mention after a certain point they’re downright rigged against you.

Hope this helps some!

[Spawnling]

Don't pair ascension climbing with achievement hunting (maybe I misread this).

The change from a10 to a11 reduces potion slots by 1.
If you have a hard time completing a11 that might mean you're using your potions ineffectively:
- Hoarding them until you really need them, thus skipping a lot of potions offered to you.
- Not discarding potions for better ones currently offered.

Potions are occasionally dropped as a reward after combat. The default chance of a potion dropping is 40% and resets at the start of each Act. If a potion drops, the chance decreases by 10%. If a potion doesn't drop, the chance increases by 10%. [slay-the-spire.fandom.com]
After every 3-5 fights you'll get a new potion, using one in this time span to reduce damage taken by 10-15 in a normal fight, instead of saving them exclusively for elites will reduce damage taken over the run significantly.

Hope that helps.

[Obamenau]

Pick damage cards in act 1 , fight lots of elites, remove strikes if possible.

Keep an eye out for these cards: offering, whirlwind, spot weakness,feed, battle trance, corruption, feel no pain.
Not that these are the only good cards but most ironclad decks like them.

[Songbird]

Originally posted by mldb88:

4- The skip option is your friend. Didn’t really sink in for me until A20 so saving you the headache here if you get this down early lol.

6- don’t rely on “finding” that one card. For example, if you see a rupture, a pommel stroke and a feel no pain early, grab the pommel. Everything else will be dead weight unless you find something to work with it (which, with my luck, normally didn’t happen).

Hope this helps some!

Regarding these two: skipping too often is also bad and a common mistake. If you skip a bunch of cards in act 1 and 2 because they aren't "good enough" then you will face elites and the act boss with a deck that is barely stronger than the starter deck. A card that incrementally makes your deck stronger is usually worth taking, unless your deck already wins a huge amount of the time as long as it draws a particular card in time and the card you are taking makes that happen less.

In that particular example for 6, it's worth noting that 21 of 75 Ironclad cards directly generate block from Feel No Pain, Ascender's Bane does too, and two of the cards I didn't count are Reckless Charge (which blocks later) and Corruption (which only indirectly makes block from FNP even if it's probably like 40-60 block). Also, Sentries, Slime Boss, Chosen, all three act 3 bosses, and the act 4 boss all give you FNP triggers from their status cards. It's such a power card that you really want to ask there if you can get away with taking it over the damage card.

[eternalreturn]

Thanks everyone for the excellent reminders and tips... despite it all
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2708314363
(although this is the closest I've been in quite some time, therefore, words are defo helpful)

[melphel]

Originally posted by Songbird:

Regarding these two: skipping too often is also bad and a common mistake. If you skip a bunch of cards in act 1 and 2 because they aren't "good enough" then you will face elites and the act boss with a deck that is barely stronger than the starter deck. A card that incrementally makes your deck stronger is usually worth taking, unless your deck already wins a huge amount of the time as long as it draws a particular card in time and the card you are taking makes that happen less.

In that particular example for 6, it's worth noting that 21 of 75 Ironclad cards directly generate block from Feel No Pain, Ascender's Bane does too, and two of the cards I didn't count are Reckless Charge (which blocks later) and Corruption (which only indirectly makes block from FNP even if it's probably like 40-60 block). Also, Sentries, Slime Boss, Chosen, all three act 3 bosses, and the act 4 boss all give you FNP triggers from their status cards. It's such a power card that you really want to ask there if you can get away with taking it over the damage card.

I respectfully disagree. The advice here is intended to avoid deck clutter. Every card has some intrinsic value, but thinking that every opportunity to add cards is an incremental improvement is a slippery slope to a huge unwieldy deck. If you have fewer cards, you cycle through to the good ones more often. There are far more chances to add cards than to remove cards, and the merchant cost for removing increases the more you do it. Busted Crown is a a favorite of mine because the drawback is less than other energy-granting relics, once you have a good deck, you shouldn't need more cards.

Its also important to avoid fixation on the end game. FNP is a great card that synergises well, but the priority should be to make your deck serviceable ASAP. Early on decks desperately need more damage output, and drawing FNP instead of an attack could mean that you take longer to reach lethal and take more damage in the process. Its a big boon for the sentinels elite, but is a liability against gremlin nob or lagavulin.

[eternalreturn]

Aye, am pretty sure deck clutter and the FNP I grabbed because I knew it was Donu & Deca had nut to do with this fail (it very likely did; I skipped a Rupture in favour of the FNP, not due to comments here, just it seemed the thing to do at the time, and I vaguely recall thinking, upon picking up my 21st card, well that's 4 hands to get through it, mebbe you've got enough cards.... but then that immolate popped up and the card game happened at a ? and.... well... there ye gae ) (also, the bash in the screenshot was unfortunately one of the results from the card game (at least it wisnae a curse or negative status, I reckon), my original had been upgraded at my first rest stop)

[Songbird]

Originally posted by melphel:

Originally posted by Songbird:

Regarding these two: skipping too often is also bad and a common mistake. If you skip a bunch of cards in act 1 and 2 because they aren't "good enough" then you will face elites and the act boss with a deck that is barely stronger than the starter deck. A card that incrementally makes your deck stronger is usually worth taking, unless your deck already wins a huge amount of the time as long as it draws a particular card in time and the card you are taking makes that happen less.

In that particular example for 6, it's worth noting that 21 of 75 Ironclad cards directly generate block from Feel No Pain, Ascender's Bane does too, and two of the cards I didn't count are Reckless Charge (which blocks later) and Corruption (which only indirectly makes block from FNP even if it's probably like 40-60 block). Also, Sentries, Slime Boss, Chosen, all three act 3 bosses, and the act 4 boss all give you FNP triggers from their status cards. It's such a power card that you really want to ask there if you can get away with taking it over the damage card.

I respectfully disagree. The advice here is intended to avoid deck clutter. Every card has some intrinsic value, but thinking that every opportunity to add cards is an incremental improvement is a slippery slope to a huge unwieldy deck. If you have fewer cards, you cycle through to the good ones more often. There are far more chances to add cards than to remove cards, and the merchant cost for removing increases the more you do it. Busted Crown is a a favorite of mine because the drawback is less than other energy-granting relics, once you have a good deck, you shouldn't need more cards.

Its also important to avoid fixation on the end game. FNP is a great card that synergises well, but the priority should be to make your deck serviceable ASAP. Early on decks desperately need more damage output, and drawing FNP instead of an attack could mean that you take longer to reach lethal and take more damage in the process. Its a big boon for the sentinels elite, but is a liability against gremlin nob or lagavulin.

What does "you cycle through the good cards more often" even mean? If you have fewer cards you cycle through your strikes and defends more often, but if you have a lot of cards that are all pretty decent and have some card manipulation plus the right balance of defense and offense, you don't really need to draw exactly one card multiple times, or at least not the same card in every given fight, and your average hand will be better than one where half your deck is basics. Normally you just want a way to set up powers quickly. Unless you have something like an Entrench/limit break cycling combo or are playing Watcher, you generally aren't going to have a portion of your deck that's significantly better than another portion unless you add like 6+ crappy attacks to it. A deck that balances what it needs and takes any card that makes it better early tends to do way better than a deck that skips 3-4 times in act 1. I mean, you still skip if all the cards offered make your deck worse (e.g. low-power skills in the first half of act 1, attacks that are worse than what you already have and don't solve any problems for you, powers that are too slow or awkward to use which you don't need anyway), but generally it's very rare that there is no card that you should add to a given deck unless it goes infinite block + damage reliably and also outpaces Time Eater per 12 cards.

You start out with badly needing to add damage in this game, then add defense and cards to get better hands consistently as well as scaling so you can survive being attacked for 60-80 while dealing hundreds of damage given a little time to set up. It's extremely rare to have a deck that will beat everything in the game before act 3 without adding more cards unless you've already found all the scaling you need and can also draw everything consistently.

[mldb88]

Originally posted by eternalreturn:

Aye, am pretty sure deck clutter and the FNP I grabbed because I knew it was Donu & Deca had nut to do with this fail :sts_ironclad: (it very likely did; I skipped a Rupture in favour of the FNP, not due to comments here, just it seemed the thing to do at the time, and I vaguely recall thinking, upon picking up my 21st card, well that's 4 hands to get through it, mebbe you've got enough cards.... but then that immolate popped up and the card game happened at a ? and.... well... there ye gae :cozycastondeath: ) (also, the bash in the screenshot was unfortunately one of the results from the card game (at least it wisnae a curse or negative status, I reckon), my original had been upgraded at my first rest stop)

Funny enough I wasn't even mentioning FNP as a direct critique to your deck but just because it's what came to mind lol, same with bash lol, more just general tips that by random chance lined up with the run haha.

As for the whole FNP topic, I still don't take it if it's not something that will already work towards my deck in its current state. Sure, 1/3 of the cards roughly have an exhaust keyword or function for chad, but grabbing an early-ish FNP now forces me to build around FNP to justify it, and possibly pass up on cards that might be better in the pool just to make it 'work'. Again, as a general rule, picking up a card your deck has no synergies with that NEEDS other cards o be useful is just a bad play imo, and relying too much on future RNG or leads to 'forcing' a deck. Ok sure, after A10 you start with ascender's bane.. thats 3 block, once, assuming its your only exhaust card (which some runs where I've steamrolled, it totally has been).

Cycle through your good cards means cycling through your scaling cards or hitting the cards that make the most impact more often. For chad this can be things like spot weakness, whirlwind, immolate, hemokenesis, perfected strike, the cards that will bring you closer to ending the fight and continue to fuel relics/powers already in play as well as get those powers in play faster. Also any player worth their salt is USUALLY getting rid of their basic strikes and defends unless:
A: they got perfected strike
B: they got the event that upgrades them all and took that option
C: keep blocks in because of corruption or not enough defensive choices showing up yet

Also, all of your examples of FNP uses are hyper specific and rely on even SEEING the right cards show up. So if you don't' see corruption, no crazy combo, but corruption is useful on its own. FNP is just dead weight until you try to shoehorn exhaust cards in, and some aren't even worth running even WITH an exhaust theme because of how hyper specific they are (sever soul says hi).

As for bosses:
Slime boss puts a whole 5 slimes in your deck at A20.... and they cost 1 energy to exhaust. You're literally better off just playing a block unless there's 3 in your hand. Still does nothing for hexa or guardian. As for elites, only helps with sentries which are easy to tank anyway without taking much damage, and requires cycling through the entire deck taking uneccessary damage anyway just for the sake of seeing those dazed cards show up.

Act 2 has.... no elites that combo off it and no bossess that combo off it

Act 3 has Awakened one adding ONE VOID... into a deck that has probably 30+ cards? 1/30 chance to trade an energy for 3 block? sounds like a terrible trade to me.

And same logic applies to the Heart, yes it adds one of each status, 2 of which actually exhaust.

[melphel]

Cycling is a matter of how many turns it will take to see a card. In OP's screenshot, they have a deck with 35 cards in it. At 5 cards per turn, that means it will be 7 turns before the deck shuffles assuming they don't play anything that draws cards. Each card in the deck will be seen only once during those 7 turns. It also means that any single card might not appear until 7 turns into the fight. That can be a long time to wait if you really depend on a card.

More frequent cycles means you could come across a Clothesline+ often enough to keep an enemy permanently weakened. A larger deck might need multiple copies to have the same effect, which is more copies to upgrade, and then you are at the mercy of drawing them at the right times. Its more likely to draw lopsided hands with all attacks or all defends in a large deck. To be fair, a larger deck is more resilient to enemies adding status cards, but that's what exhaust cards are for.

I don't think you should be skipping 3-4 cards in act 1, but you definitely should not take a new card every time one is offered, especially in the later acts. You should however be taking every opportunity to remove the starter cards. Drawing a strike means you didn't draw a more useful card.

When I was new to the game, I was eager to add new cards and reluctant to remove cards. Its a hard habit to break, but changing that behavior had a noticeable effect on my runs.

[eternalreturn]

The glut occurred in act 2 and 3. near the beginning of of act 2, the gremlin with the card game showed and I got 3 cards. I'm a sucker for the gremlin. then shortly after, I was offered immolate, likewise cannae resist it, especially not in this game as it was very applicable, Don't look at 35 and assume that's act 1. I came out of act 1 with 12 or less. Please do note, I got Purity some time back, and that was actually rather easy, especially compared to the single relic run. I think getting out of 11 is much worse than the single relic run.

[eternalreturn]

...and as I stated above, Purity would have been Minimalist, as well, but I accidentally picked up a curse near the end in some scenaraio I didn't realise would land me with a curse. I don't do youtube tutorials and such like unless I'm positively fkt, and that's rare; you seem to be talking to me as if I've been studying how other folk play, whilst no even having a wee keek at the achievements I have done. not all who are noobs are "new to the game."

[melphel]

I meant no offense. That was a personal anecdote about how I personally played the game when I was a new player. I wasn't insinuating anything about you.

You asked for advice and shared experiences, that's what I posted.

[eternalreturn]

I'll make it easy for you
https://steamcommunity.com/id/eternalreturn/stats/646570/achievements/
Yeah, I just started playing this month. not.