the 4th floor

[Burningskull]

i just came back to slay the spire a few days ago and found there is a new fourth floor. I kinda think that once you unlock the 4th floor you should have to collect the fragments again. Once you beat the game with that character you should just have them. Just my opinion anyway.

[dOuOb]

The creators of the game have a thing with artificially increasing the difficulty, the key pieces help them to that end.

[Nightmyre]

I kinda agree. The key pieces generally make the game more difficult to beat, since you either have to fight stronger elites or you have to pass on relics. However, the 4th floor isn't required to get the next ascension level, so I always just skip it.

[K E N N I]

I think there should be an option to turn off act 4 altogether. The elites with key pieces are there even if you have no intention of going to act 4, so climbing ascension has been made more difficult for everyone.

[Xgpmcnp]

I don't think this is right. They key pieces are easy enough to gather on just act 1 without really changing your route so much, only removing you from 1 chest relic and 1 camp fire. If you want to avoid it, it's super easy to avoid too. I see no issue with collecting them again.

[Burningskull]

Originally posted by Xgpmcnp:

I don't think this is right. They key pieces are easy enough to gather on just act 1 without really changing your route so much, only removing you from 1 chest relic and 1 camp fire. If you want to avoid it, it's super easy to avoid too. I see no issue with collecting them again.

My personal issue is I like to use campfires to upgrade cards. You only get so many campfires in the first place so forcing you to chose a keyy piece over a upgrade or a needed rest is kind of annoying. 2nd I hardly ever unless necassary fight elites. So loosing a relic from a chest or having to fight a super elite is also more trouble than it ends up being worth.

[peanut078]

How can I download this game

[GalloglassCA]

Skill issue. Learning when to time your key grabs is part of learning how to get to and best the heart in a run.

[mldb88]

Originally posted by CW:

Skill issue. Learning when to time your key grabs is part of learning how to get to and best the heart in a run.

I mean while blunt, it's pretty much this. Act 4 takes planning, and having to get the keys each run and sacrifice a rest stop, item and face a super elite is part of that planning ahead. While it does make the run a little harder, it's not a huge spike, and its usually pretty clear when it's best to go for each key piece in a run (chest that has a relic that does nothing for your current setup, early super elite while they're easy or act 3 if your deck is in a position to handle it because lets face it, if you can't handle an act 3 super elite odds are your deck isn't beating Act 4, and a rest stop where your health is in good shape or where healing is detrimental like before Hexaghost).

Also there's usually enough alternate pathing to easily path around the super if you really don't want to deal with it. Act 4 and the path towards it are meant to be an extra challenge. If you don't want to engage in Act 4, it's simple enough to just not engage with them.

Originally posted by dOuOb:

The creators of the game have a thing with artificially increasing the difficulty, the key pieces help them to that end.

I don't think you understand what artificial difficulty means. The keys add an extra layer of thought and planning, as well as necessitating sacrificing essentially one of each type of benefit during a run to reach Act 4 (an upgrade/rest, an item chest, the choice of bypassing elites through strategic pathing). If we were talking about some of the ascensions like just giving ♥♥♥♥ more health or more damage, then yea you might have a point.

[LHGreen]

Originally posted by peanut078:

How can I download this game

wtf? Why post a question like this in a completely unrelated thread from 2019?

[Khor]

Originally posted by mldb88:

Originally posted by dOuOb:

The creators of the game have a thing with artificially increasing the difficulty, the key pieces help them to that end.

I don't think you understand what artificial difficulty means. The keys add an extra layer of thought and planning, as well as necessitating sacrificing essentially one of each type of benefit during a run to reach Act 4 (an upgrade/rest, an item chest, the choice of bypassing elites through strategic pathing). If we were talking about some of the ascensions like just giving ♥♥♥♥ more health or more damage, then yea you might have a point.

Funnily enough, as roguelike, StS is full of trial-and-error difficulty.... which is a prime example of Fake/Artificial difficulty...

on the other hand, "giving ♥♥♥♥ more health or more damage" ie Stat Checking, is just a widely complained form of difficulty
(and it`s not considered Artificial unless we are talking bullet-spongifying, which is not the case here)

[Nibbie]

Originally posted by Khor:

Originally posted by mldb88:

I don't think you understand what artificial difficulty means. The keys add an extra layer of thought and planning, as well as necessitating sacrificing essentially one of each type of benefit during a run to reach Act 4 (an upgrade/rest, an item chest, the choice of bypassing elites through strategic pathing). If we were talking about some of the ascensions like just giving ♥♥♥♥ more health or more damage, then yea you might have a point.

Funnily enough, as roguelike, StS is full of trial-and-error difficulty.... which is a prime example of Fake/Artificial difficulty...

What does this even mean? It sounds like "unless I'm told everything I'm going to face ahead of time, its artificial difficulty", which I assume isn't what you are trying to say, because that would mean 99% of games are artificially difficult (an utterly stupid term in the first place, but anyway). I can't really think of what else you could mean with that though. Do you consider learning the game to be artificial difficulty?

Unrelated: this thread is from 2019, consider when responding.

[Khor]

It`s more like: unless everything I'm going to face ahead is solvable with the information currently available, it's artificial difficulty

A.k.a:
What number I'm I thinking?
a- 3+3
b- 4(x + 4) + 3(x -3) = 2(x -3) + 12
c- a number between 3 and 8

a is easy
b is difficult
c is fake difficult because it requires you to get lucky or die and replay

Like the (old) Champ fight
if you triggered the Execute phase without a way to kill him quickly.
(and that`s why we strongly encourage save and quit, lol)


Games based on replayability can mud the definition a bit
but if we want to call something "fake difficult" that`s probably it

[mldb88]

Originally posted by Khor:

It`s more like: unless everything I'm going to face ahead is solvable with the information currently available, it's artificial difficulty

A.k.a:
What number I'm I thinking?
a- 3+3
b- 4(x + 4) + 3(x -3) = 2(x -3) + 12
c- a number between 3 and 8

a is easy
b is difficult
c is fake difficult because it requires you to get lucky or die and replay

Like the (old) Champ fight
if you triggered the Execute phase without a way to kill him quickly.
(and that`s why we strongly encourage save and quit, lol)


Games based on replayability can mud the definition a bit
but if we want to call something "fake difficult" that`s probably it

That analogy falls apart once you try to apply it though, because sts doesn’t actually do that at all. It never asks “hey if you don’t land an exact number of block you lose”.

Almost all of the enemies have some kind of pattern players can pick up on, and the few who don’t either have damage values low enough to where it’s not an extreme threat unless the player put themselves in a bad spot through play errors already or the player has some agency in dictating what the enemy will do (see spaghetti monster).

Hell sts even tells you roundabout what enemies are gong to do each turn. With the exception of pure damage sure it’s kind of vague (status, block, flee or buff) so even from that perspective your analogy just doesn’t work.

The fact the game doesn’t hold your hand and tell you every single pattern and mechanic of each and every fight and leaves it up to the player to learn through experience doesn’t make it fake difficulty, it’s literally what most games expect of its playerbase.

[Khor]

Originally posted by mldb88:

I can give you that the worst stuff got ironed out with time
but the Execute example is pretty hard to dispute

and so is a bunch of other stuff that only works because the whole "roguelike experience" presupposes multiple playthroughs.


Much like "good cards" and "under-the-threshold-cards" this is just Classical Game Design Theory
you can agree or disagree, but that`s on you
it`s not like it`s a real science anyway lol

It`s like the "Roguelikes" e co...
there`s an actual definition(of questionable authority), but that doesn`t stop half the internet from disagreeing with it

[1.2M | Missingno.]

Is any use of hidden information 'fake'? Because then we can extend this argument to not knowing what relics will drop, what's in the ? foor, even not knowing what cards you'll draw next turn.