Writhing Mass is too disruptive!!!

[Bullfrog12]

Why? BECAUSE IT CAN ADD A CURSE TO YOUR DECK PERNAMANTLY!!!!!
ARE YOU SERIOUS??? IT WILL MAKE YOU LOSE YOUR NEXT CARD REMOVAL, AND
IT'S HARD TO KILL, AND IT'S JUST A NORMAL ENEMY!!!!!!!!!!

It needs to be an Elite, or better yet, removed from the game entirely!!!

[Zu]

It's almost like getting the 1 in 6 curse from the roulette, isn't it?

:thonk:

If you wanna call bs, at least call bs on the intent not changing sometimes when you attack it LUL

[JellyPuff]

Originally posted by Zu:

If you wanna call bs, at least call bs on the intent not changing sometimes when you attack it LUL

What if does change it's intend, but it just randomly chooses the same attack?

I also think, that the Writhing Mass is just a tad too strong, but here are a few tips: Dark Shackle/Piercing Wail can disable it completely for a turn. If it doesn't do it's multi-hit, just attack it, until it does do that.

If you can already mitigate it's damage in a turn, just don't attack it. Passive forms of damage (Juggernaut, poison, orbs, thorns) are especially good against it, so you can focus on defense and only attack normally, when you want a more favourable attack from it.

Or just hang on to a smoke bomb.

[PPPPPPPP270]

The only thing they could probably do is at least make it so it will always change its intent
to be different every time it takes attack damage. Maybe make it allow do the same move twice in a row.

[Ivydoom]

He changes his intent when he gets attack damage. For that he need to lose hp, so he won't change intent if you remove part of his block.

[Songbird]

This is easily one of the most unfun enemies in the game, honestly, if you are playing a deck that has to attack him to kill him. While you CAN one-shot him or kill him with Juggernaut, Thousand Cuts, poison, orbs, etc., the only winning strategy with attacks against him is to do absolutely nothing unless you can play tons of attacks that will break his block in one turn, in which case you might play one or two of them and then stop unless he's doing something really bad.

[itssirtou]

I'm not so mad about the curse as I am about how hard he hits. When he turns into the same thing. His interaction with Runic Dome, which has become one of my favorite energy relics... And this stupid ass steam bug that made me have to type this entire comment through my little profile popup not going away.

[posthuman]

deffo should be an elite, not a normal enemy.

[Machaeus]

I agree that it should be an elite, but dude, OP?

You really need to learn the power of rarity. Less rage, less bold, less underline, less italics. Tone it down about 3000 notches or it just looks like impotent rage.

I know WM sucks to fight. You're still making an assbutt of yourself. And removing it isn't an option, nor is it "helpful criticism." It's just taking a sheet and putting it on the nice developers that gave us this awesome little game. If you catch my meaning by "sheet."

[Bullfrog12]

Originally posted by Machaeus:

I agree that it should be an elite, but dude, OP?

You really need to learn the power of rarity. Less rage, less bold, less underline, less italics. Tone it down about 3000 notches or it just looks like impotent rage.

I know WM sucks to fight. You're still making an assbutt of yourself. And removing it isn't an option, nor is it "helpful criticism." It's just taking a sheet and putting it on the nice developers that gave us this awesome little game. If you catch my meaning by "sheet."

I'm sorry for that outburst. But I'm still really angry.

The focus of this thread wasn't the WM's power in terms of damage, but rather the idea of a NORMAL enemy adding a CURSE to your deck. It's a horrible idea. The rewards of the WM won't cover the cost of paying to remove a card from your deck. Not to mention the 3 Max HP loss.

The "hard to kill" part means that the WM takes very long to kill with a normal deck, and it's nearly impossible to Turn One Kill it, meaning it has more time to add its Parasite to your deck.

If I nerfed the WM, I'd remove the curse move, rather than nerf its damage.

[bulbatrs]

I found that the best way to beat it is to use the smoke potion. worth saving one just for that encounter.

[van the man]

act 3 has so much weird stuff that hard counters specific deck types in it these days, that smoke potion can be run saving

[Bullfrog12]

You're not going to get a Smoke Bomb in ALL runs.

[bulbatrs]

Originally posted by Bullfrog12:

You're not going to get a Smoke Potion in ALL runs.

not all runs struggle with the mass, some decks just crush it. you don't always run into it as well.

[alon.ori]

I think the curse should stay, given that on most turns you can avoid it by being careful with your attacks, and if you happen to pick any curse synergy relic recently it's a nice opertunity.

the whole encounter is potencialy less aggresive then other late act 3 normals once you know it's moves.

dont let it debuff unless you can/have either: artifact, kill next turn, block big hit next turn.
the vulnerability is a huge chunk of his daamage and can be worse then the curse, especially late ascension.
if you have 1 attack in hend and his intent is a regular attack be vary causius about taking that roll.

as for forcing him to change into a truly different move each time:
while rolling triple curse have some comedic value, fixing it would probably be wise...

[Aluminum]

each enemy encounter is supposed to pose a unique challenge to the player.

E.g.:

- Orb walker's strength scaling and mediocre HP tests how quickly you can end a fight and whether your deck is robust against statuses (either by being fast enough to where the burns never become significant, or have enough discard/exhaust etc. to handle them)

- Spire growth has no damage scaling, but consistently deal 20~30 damage with attack+constrict, this plus its meaty HP pool tests whether you have competent defense (or, if applicable, insane damage)

- Transient is a even more blatant example of the game testing your ability to output damage quickly--whether you have increasing DPT or just consistent high damage.

- The little shape constructs (spiker, exploder etc.) can seem a bit trickier to analyze--each test something different; exploder for quick output, repulsor for status-resistance, spiker for either indirect damage output (posion, orbs etc.) or strong single attacks. The fact that they show up together mixes things up and requires you to discover different priorities depending on your deck.


So, the writhing mass, by the same idea, may be there to test if you have a few things:

1. insane defense - which negates your need to control its intention by attacking it, if you can block its high damage turns.

2. deck versatility - whether you can get it to do low damage attack using what attack you have in your hand, while being able to block the relatively low, but not insignificant amount of damage.

3. deck robustness - whether your deck will break down for having just a few dead cards. E.g., a unceasing-top infinite deck consisting of entirely [slice] and [deflect] will be shut down easily by unplayable cards, but a 35 card deck with discards and exhausts will hardly feel the curse.

The fact that the curse is [Parasite] also seems like it's been designed to be something that is annoying only if you are anxious about not having any curse in your deck. If your deck is sufficiently robust, [Parasite] is pretty insignificant for its functioning.

Personally, I find both the variable intent and persistent impact of the W.M. to be interesting departures from the earlier encounter designs, which seem more isolated, and favorable to the "thin-deck" meta. Some people might react negatively to the fact that certain designs features punish the thinness, because they had subconsciously come to consider the thinness a prescriptive requirement to playing the game well, whereas it is, and should be regarded as no more than a strategy that works out well in some situation.