Finally beat the game with all 3 characters.

[Euphytose]

And the Silent is really subpar. The game's nearing 1.0 and this character is still trash compared to the others.

With the other two, reaching Act 3 isn't even a question, the first boss is a formality, and the second one is a decent challenge but nothing crazy.

With the Silent, I already need to use pots on the first boss, and I lose on the second boss very often. I tried shiv builds, poison builds, 0 mana builds, it doesn't matter. The cards just don't work well enough together.

It's also the only character on which I always use the boss relic starting bonus, since the base relic is trash. And it's a shame because I love DOT builds in games, that's my stuff. Playing poison feels nice, but it's just not powerful enough.

[Zu]

Originally posted by Euphytose:

It's also the only character on which I always use the boss relic starting bonus, since the base relic is trash. And it's a shame because I love DOT builds in games, that's my stuff. Playing poison feels nice, but it's just not powerful enough.

And to think this is coming from an A0 player where you can totally afford to sit back and relax while fumes & co. do most of the work.

Quick advice:
She gets more out of relics than the other two, so try to learn the elite matchups and be a little more daring when hunting them down.

[Euphytose]

I do. Twice I got the black star and killed 2 elites on A1. It got me a bit further in the end, but ultimately she runs out of breath on A2 bosses, at least for me. I've played countless times with her, more so than the other two.

[Zu]

Well, my win rate with Chad's a bit worse, but it shouldn't be anything to write home about. Different players, different approaches. You'll get the hang of it eventually. Take a Silent break. Maybe watch someone else play.

[Nibbie]

I think she is somewhat more reliant on combos than the others, but she is good. For poison, the biggest tools are Catalyst and Burst. If you get both with a Deadly Poison or even just a Noxious Fumes, you just about auto win. Then its just about defense, with Footwork taking mvp there imo, and backflip getting an honorable mention. Also, the starting relic helps your initial draw consistency a lot, getting powers and combos going sooner, and a boss relic can upgrade it to drawing one extra card every turn. I would get rid of the Defect's relic before the Silent's.

[Neon Black Interactive]

Firstly, there's no reason what so ever the classes would need to be balanced against each other so they're all on the same power level. It's a single player game. You play the class you find most fun. It's not like the silent is losing runs because "oh defect too op". No, that doesn't happen. All of these classes exist independant of each other besides a few fringe cases.

Second and lastly, the fact that you feel okay with the ironclad and defect but can't even clear A0 with the silent without getting really lucky indicates to me that you're trying to play the silent as though she were the ironclad or the defect. She's not though, and out of the three classes I would say that in terms of how you want fights to play out the defect and ironclad are much, much more similar than the silent is to either of them.

You need to approach the silent from a completely different perspective than the other two classes. This is simply the way it is. I can assure you the silent isn't a weak class. Though she may have somewhat lower win rates than the ironclad or defect she is not weak and she can certainly clear the game at any difficulty level. I play her almost exclusively because the other two just don't appeal to me nearly as much. Right now I have about a 20% winrate on A20 with her. If I can clear A20 with her 1 in 5 runs then she can certainly clear A0 without breaking a sweat and with no luck involved.

So basically, you just need to learn the class. If you're playing her completely incorrectly, that's not the fault of the silent.

[Khor]

Originally posted by Urilbedamned:

Right now I have about a 20% winrate on A20 with her.

oh wow and here i`m complaining about my godawful 50% with Silent




I kinda agree on Silent being weaker, but as others have said, she isn`t that bad.
She lacks a clear card-only win condition (except for Poison) and therefore requires some lucky pulls or some relic support.
All this is mostly a high Ascension problem thought . If you have trouble finishing a normal game... we are in "GiT GuD" territory here, no real way to put it nicely

[Songbird]

Originally posted by Khor:

Originally posted by Urilbedamned:

Right now I have about a 20% winrate on A20 with her.

oh wow :wow: and here i`m complaining about my godawful 50% with Silent




I kinda agree on Silent being weaker, but as others have said, she isn`t that bad.
She lacks a clear card-only win condition (except for Poison) and therefore requires some lucky pulls or some relic support.
All this is mostly a high Ascension problem thought . If you have trouble finishing a normal game... we are in "GiT GuD" territory here, no real way to put it nicely:conwayshrug:

Stacking Footwork with Blur/Dodge and Roll or Accuracy in a shiv deck are pretty solid card-only win conditions since your turns become so hyper-efficient it's hard to lose (e.g. play one Dodge and Roll for 10+10 block or one Cloak and Dagger+ for 6 block and 28 damage). Burst Malaise is very solid against bosses and elites as well.

Afterimage x2 is so potent it's basically a win condition in itself. Combos with Wraith Form, Blur, lots of relics, Apparition, etc.

Small decks can also get pretty nutty with Concentrate, Acrobatics, Expertise, Calculated Gamble, and Tactician, either going infinite or having ludicrous draw power without sacrificing energy to use it. Obviously on ascension 20 you need more than this, like Afterimage and something like Skewer to terminate your combo in a big way against Time Eater.

[Khor]

Originally posted by Lupus Albus:

Stacking Footwork with Blur/Dodge and Roll or Accuracy in a shiv deck are pretty solid card-only win conditions since your turns become so hyper-efficient it's hard to lose (e.g. play one Dodge and Roll for 10+10 block or one Cloak and Dagger+ for 6 block and 28 damage). Burst Malaise is very solid against bosses and elites as well.

Afterimage x2 is so potent it's basically a win condition in itself. Combos with Wraith Form, Blur, lots of relics, Apparition, etc.

Small decks can also get pretty nutty with Concentrate, Acrobatics, Expertise, Calculated Gamble, and Tactician, either going infinite or having ludicrous draw power without sacrificing energy to use it. Obviously on ascension 20 you need more than this, like Afterimage and something like Skewer to terminate your combo in a big way against Time Eater.

Uh.. yes, that...Silent needs a bit too much comboey stuff to win relying only on average card pulls.
In your examples you are requiring some very specific cards and in some you are even lacking a win condition.
Now, those decks can work but are much harder to assemble than a comparable Ironclad/Defect deck

[Neon Black Interactive]

Originally posted by Khor:

Originally posted by Lupus Albus:

Stacking Footwork with Blur/Dodge and Roll or Accuracy in a shiv deck are pretty solid card-only win conditions since your turns become so hyper-efficient it's hard to lose (e.g. play one Dodge and Roll for 10+10 block or one Cloak and Dagger+ for 6 block and 28 damage). Burst Malaise is very solid against bosses and elites as well.

Afterimage x2 is so potent it's basically a win condition in itself. Combos with Wraith Form, Blur, lots of relics, Apparition, etc.

Small decks can also get pretty nutty with Concentrate, Acrobatics, Expertise, Calculated Gamble, and Tactician, either going infinite or having ludicrous draw power without sacrificing energy to use it. Obviously on ascension 20 you need more than this, like Afterimage and something like Skewer to terminate your combo in a big way against Time Eater.

Uh.. yes, that...Silent needs a bit too much comboey stuff to win relying only on average card pulls.
In your examples you are requiring some very specific cards and in some you are even lacking a win condition.
Now, those decks can work but are much harder to assemble than a comparable Ironclad/Defect deck

The way I like to think about the 3 classes is each class is meant to appeal to a different type of player because they all play very differently from each other. As I've said many times before I play the Silent almost exclusively because she is by far the class I find to be the most engaging.

The Ironclad is very straight forward for the msot part. He wants to pick up a few strong attack cards in the early game, then build an overwhelming defense through out act two while also finding a good way to backload damage (demon form, limit break, etc). The Defect is like the Ironclad but has more of a one track mind. It aims to expend all of it's picks and resources towards setting up an overwhelming defense and assumes that if it is impervious to damage the enemy will eventually die. The Silent is very different different from both of these. Out of all 3 classes I've found the Silent to have the most variety. There are so many different routes the silent can take to victory that I believe it is by quite a large margine the most difficult class to play to its full potential. Every time I start a run with the Silent I liegitimiately have no clue what kind of game plan I have besides the fundamental demands the game gives me.

i've had runs I've won by skipping as much combat as possible and using catalysts to cheese bosses out. I've had other winning runs that focus almost entirely on front loaded combo damage and don't have a real plan for producing block (I'm sure you've heard about the kind of damage silent can pull off with bag of marbles). I've had even other runs that rely on slowing grinding enemies down with a very good block package that had to sacrifice a good attack package to set up. If you truly want to be successful with the silent, you need to be able to take into account the enemies in the spire, your deck, and the possible things the silent can pick up later into the run. Do the other classes have a better success rate than the Silent? Of course they do. But the silent is in my opinion the most skill intensive character in Slay the Spire. If you want to play the Ironclad or the Defect, that's great! They're both legitimate, well designed charecters. However, I believe the Skilent is the character that offers the msot engaging decisions and punishes players hardest for making even slight mistakes. The Silent is an unforgiving class, however she is by no means under powered.

Also, just an fyi an early dead branch, at least at A16 and below, should almost guarentee a win on the Silent. The relic is absurdly overpowered especially with shivs.

[Zu]

Originally posted by Urilbedamned:

I've had runs I've won by skipping as much combat as possible and using catalysts to cheese bosses out. I've had other winning runs that focus almost entirely on front loaded combo damage and don't have a real plan for producing block (I'm sure you've heard about the kind of damage silent can pull off with bag of marbles). I've had even other runs that rely on slowing grinding enemies down with a very good block package that had to sacrifice a good attack package to set up.

Sounds familiar.

~Visions of Chad n Defect~

[itssirtou]

Originally posted by Zu:

And to think this is coming from an A0 player where you can totally afford to sit back and relax while fumes & co. do most of the work.
.

To be fair when you have 4 copies and a Nightmare... So fun

[Aarlon]

It seems to me like The Silent and The Defect are on about the same level The Ironclad is op as ♥♥♥♥ though

[DurBimSok]

For me the silent is the easiest character, I got to ascension 4 twice as fast as the other two

[jay jay the dank planezinho]

I didn't like the Silent early on, but now, after trying a few runs with her, she's probably my favorite character. I think she's quite versatile. Shiv decks are pretty fun with her, especially when you have the relics Shuriken and Kunai. Had a run today where I had 3 Accuracy and lots of ways to spam Shivs. Quite nasty.

I haven't played The Ironchad as much, but I didn't have a lot of luck with him. He seems OP because he can play more agressively early on since he can regen heath, but I'm still getting used to his cards.

The Defect... heh. My runs with him have been quite defective indeed... But it's mostly bad luck and lots of misplays on my end.

[haggardfalcone]

There's always one post or another decrying a characters overall strength. It comes down to how proficient you are with the character. I cant get the Silent past asc 9 but I'm one good run away from completing asc 18 with the defect.

The silent is my worst character too, but that doesn't mean she's bad. Just I'm bad with her xD