defect is damn OP

[*Yuki*]

I just had 40 energy and 330 (!) defence one turn

[Andrew7588]

You need to try harder :P. I've had nearly 500 energy (not actually that hard - a few of the "evoke your orb and rechannel it" cards with plasma, echo form and a few of the upgraded "double your energy" cards) and block just shy of 900 (so much evoked ice) before.

[*Yuki*]

Originally posted by Andrew7588:

You need to try harder :P. I've had nearly 500 energy (not actually that hard - a few of the "evoke your orb and rechannel it" cards with plasma, echo form and a few of the upgraded "double your energy" cards) and block just shy of 900 (so much evoked ice) before.

actually, I didnt even evoke ice, but got combination of lots of defence and power cards + mummy hand (or how was it called - relic that make random card free after usage of any power card). Also some cards on double energy and plasma, mixed with "evoke X times"

[*Yuki*]

Originally posted by vel north:

there is not anything wrong with being OP in a game like this. i'm not saying you are saying that, i'm just saying that in case anyone wants to imply it or say that i said that you said it, or say that you said it after i said it.

Im not trying to say that this game needs to be more of "darkest dungeon". Just making a joke of how each new character feels more powerfull, than previous. At this point, if they will decide to add new class, it should have just "win the game" card

[Cherry]

Idk I feel defect is kinda weak tbh, he’s great in the right hands. But his runs can be bricked so hard by just not getting the right cards or relics soon enough

[Clicker Master]

what the ♥♥♥♥.

i haven't played him yet, but is there an explanaition?

[Aeternalis the Abyssal Alchemist]

Originally posted by *Yuki*:

Originally posted by vel north:

there is not anything wrong with being OP in a game like this. i'm not saying you are saying that, i'm just saying that in case anyone wants to imply it or say that i said that you said it, or say that you said it after i said it.

Im not trying to say that this game needs to be more of "darkest dungeon". Just making a joke of how each new character feels more powerfull, than previous. At this point, if they will decide to add new class, it should have just "win the game" card :grenny:

It really depends on your preferred playstyle. Each subsequent character is more complex than the previous, but not inherantly more or less powerful.
I find the Ironclad and Defect to be the most fun, but that's because my playstyle doesn't lend well to the Silent, who requires some patience to get through her early-game.

[Zu]

Originally posted by ummahusla:

what the ♥♥♥♥.

i haven't played him yet, but is there an explanation?

Cycling plasma orbs.

[Pumpkinreaper]

The defect has come a long way but still is a little weaker than the other classes if only because of how reliant it is in getting certain combos of cards (or slampicking every claw drop and winning almost purely from spamming it). Not by much mind you, just by a bit. Still very fun to play (buff hello world so its upgrade produces upgraded commons damn it)

[Senator Jim Death]

I only just started playing recently, but assuming that Ironclad was the first character, I can see why people might feel the other two are more powerful. Saying nothing about how they actually play, Ironclad seems to want players to burn health or exhaust cards. The other two don't really have builds that ask those kind of "sacrifices" (well, I should say "that kind of resource management"), which by itself makes at least me feel like I don't want to play Ironclad because I don't want to manage those resources that way.

Borrowing an example from another genre, it's like an RPG class where you have to actually use those 99 elixirs you're carrying around. It sure feels like you're giving something up and getting weaker when you might well be much better off than classes that don't have to do that. The extra element of loss makes the class feel weaker even though you are not in practical terms giving up anything.

After all, I understand that all the classes can get broken enough to win the main game handily, so it isn't as if one of them is dramatically underpowered. If Defect could be guaranteed to build a gamebreaking deck every run, that would be one thing, but I don't know if you're more or less likely to break a particular run with that character than the others.

I dunno. I'm not sure I'm expressing what I mean all that well. Kinda got off the subject, too, I guess. I also might be incorrectly conflating my ideas of what's enjoyable with everbody's ideas of what could make a class feel weaker than others.

[Andrew7588]

Originally posted by Senator Jim Death:

The other two don't really have builds that ask those kind of "sacrifices" (well, I should say "that kind of resource management")

I'd argue that point - Ironclad uses a lot of exhaust, I'll give you that, but at its heart, the exhaust mechanic is "you can play this card, get one shot of a card more powerful than would be typical of that cost, then you lose the card for the rest of the fight".

That's not a million miles from a power based defect deck - you can only play them once per fight, the effects of the powers are typically a bit weaker than an Ironclad exhaust card, but you get them every turn, so it balances out. And arguably Defect powers like Buffer or self repair could easily be viewed as exhaust cards - they have an effect that works x times, then they're gone for the rest of the fight.

In that sense, the only real difference between an ironclad exhaust deck and a defect power deck is that the defect power deck usually does most of its damage through orbs, where the ironclad does it with attacks.


As to which is easier... for me at least, Silent is worse, because that playstyle just doesn't work for me. Defect is the balance, I've built things which have gone round endless 8+ times without taking a single point of damage from the start of run 4 to the end of run 8. Honestly though, last time I played ironclad, I found it TOO easy. I did a 5 run win streak a few weeks back, while watching TV, all at 2am. It just took no effort, so it bored me.

[l3ademeister]

Originally posted by IAMCRAIG:

The defect has come a long way but still is a little weaker than the other classes if only because of how reliant it is in getting certain combos of cards (or slampicking every claw drop and winning almost purely from spamming it). Not by much mind you, just by a bit. Still very fun to play (buff hello world so its upgrade produces upgraded commons damn it)

No, he is the strongest of the three classes.
He has the most damage early (two 1 cost cards wich combined do 16 damage), many 0 cost cards, many card draw cards, the strongest block cards and the most overall usefull cards (wich you can easy use in diffrent strategys) & many ways to get energy or the card you need at the moment.

I have the highest winrate even if it is my least played class at the moment.

[Pumpkinreaper]

Originally posted by l3ademeister:

Originally posted by IAMCRAIG:

The defect has come a long way but still is a little weaker than the other classes if only because of how reliant it is in getting certain combos of cards (or slampicking every claw drop and winning almost purely from spamming it). Not by much mind you, just by a bit. Still very fun to play (buff hello world so its upgrade produces upgraded commons damn it)

No, he is the strongest of the three classes.
He has the most damage early (two 1 cost cards wich combined do 16 damage), many 0 cost cards, many card draw cards, the strongest block cards and the most overall usefull cards (wich you can easy use in diffrent strategys) & many ways to get energy or the card you need at the moment.

Ironclad can generate more block and use it offensively, whereas silent can block while producing other useful offensive effects. Defect has charge battery (admittedly quite good) and nothing else that generates block while doing something else (if you say ice bolt I'm going to be very sad). This is very important since mitigating damage is fine and all, but a significant chunk of encounters are essentially on a timer that punish playing too defensively, ranging from their pattern switching to higher damaging attacks to filling your deck with status cards.

With ironclad, you have a ton of potent cards that debuff damage, exhaust cards for one powerful nuke and heal mid battle. Then ironclads also have stuff like bodyslam and flame wall to make their blocks offensive.

For silent, you have cloak and dagger which is fantastic when upgraded and synergizes with a lot of other cards, dash which deals a decent amount of damage while granting block, sweep kick to weaken a target which means you might only have to use one block next turn and the ridiculous amount of cards they have that add a metric ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of mileage for any block card they play (or any card, in the case of afterimage granting block for every card you play).


The defect doesn't get a lot of great options for generating block. Steam barrier is almost a must since you want to keep your momentum going as long as possible, which just dies if you suddenly can't play dual cast without leaving yourself wide open. Charge battery being changed from saving your energy from a previous turn to giving you +1 energy on your next turn goes a long way in helping remedy this problem, but it still is reliant on what you draw next turn, whereas the other two classes immediately benefit from the blocks they play. This is the weakness of defect; it does not have a lot of good defensive options that give it a longer term advantage. Ice orbs aren't great and reliant on either being able to regularly generate-evoke them, orb slots or focus. Ice orbs aren't useless but they are definitely weaker in comparison to what the other classes are capable of.

I'd continue but it's 4 am and I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a tldr anyways, but that's steam forums for you.

[l3ademeister]

okay maybe not the strongest but still some strong block cards for diffrent strategys.
Charge battery is strong in every Deck.
Auto shield is okay depending on your strategy.
genetic algorithm is bad.
Glacier is okay in a focus deck.
upgraded Hologram is great in a cycle/claw deck and still good in any other deck.
leap is a weak card because it don´t realy contribute to any strategy
Reinforced Body is great in plasma/energy decks
Steam Barrier is good in cycle/0 cost decks
Force Field is good in a power deck

and then you have the option to strategy around orbs with focus and constantly orb cycling with easy 30+ Block each turn.

I have much less problems to get a good attack/defense balance going then with the other classes

In my Opinion it is easy to snowball with the Defect with only a few good cards.

The Silent is much more reliant on getting the right cards early to start snowballing and you can get screwed most with bad card draws.

And with Ironclad it is easy to get energy problems if you dont get the right relics/cards.

[Horrow]

Originally posted by *Yuki*:

I just had 40 energy and 330 (!) defence one turn :AwesomeBorn:

I've killed elites and bosses on the first turn as Silent.

[Andrew7588]

Originally posted by Horrow:

Originally posted by *Yuki*:

I just had 40 energy and 330 (!) defence one turn :AwesomeBorn:

I've killed elites and bosses on the first turn as Silent.

And I've done that as Defect, both with and without mind blast.