Make hipfire great again!

[LumpyPancakes]

This is something that's been brought up multiple times in the past, but I want to shed some light on how horrible hipfire feels at the moment, examine why that is, and propose some solutions to make it feel better.

Currently, hipfire recoil is (by estimation) 2-3 times more significant than ADS recoil with most weapons. Here is an image comparing the recoil while ADS vs hipfire with the MP5:

https://imgur.com/Kys2GdV

It also seems that horizontal recoil is buffed to an even greater magnitude than vertical recoil. I would estimate maybe **7-8 times more horizontal recoil** while hipfire vs ADS.

Here is an img of recoil while ADS:
https://imgur.com/izS68qY

And here is hipfire (I'm controlling the vertical recoil for this one):
https://imgur.com/G1lOiJ7

Keep in mind these were all shot the same distance from the wall. So basically, your guy has the accuracy of shooting his rifle drunk and one handed.

What I really want to pay attention to in these images is how *wide* the hipfire spread is. Horizontal recoil by its very nature is impossible to predict, which of course leads to randomness. Combine that with the insane first shot multiplier (the amount of recoil between shots 1-2 of your burst will be 2-3 times higher than subsequent shots) pictured below, and you get hipfire that feels completely random and jerky and just overall awful to shoot.

https://imgur.com/8g0S0gx


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PROBLEMS I HAVE WITH THE CURRENT SYSTEM
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- Extreme horizontal recoil makes hipfire feel like RNG rather than I'm actually aiming.
- Weapons that should be good in CQB are currently the worst weapons for hipfire (MP5, MP7, etc)

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SUGGESTIONS TO IMPROVE HIPFIRE:
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- Reduce the horizontal recoil increase (from ADS) by 30% for all weapons
- Reduce the first shot multiplier increase (from ADS) by 30% for all weapons

- Make weapons intented for CQB (SMG, bullpup AR, shotgun, mk 18/HB) excel at hipfire
- Reduce the horizontal recoil increase (from ADS) by 50% for CQB weapons
- Reduce the first shot multiplier increase (from ADS) by 50% for CQB weapons

- The extreme vertical recoil can stay as a means of discouraging long range hipfire

- Add a new grip option that decreases hipfire recoil
- Add another grip that lessens the free aim zone

(I know there are talks of adding new grips to the game and this seems like a great place to start)

Thanks for reading :)

[[57th] AngryHatter]

No thanks. Game is too easy as it is.

[aK]

Originally posted by 57th AngryHatter:

No thanks. Game is too easy as it is.

+1

[AkH prevent ت]

I agree with you, OP. Hipfire was a big part of my play style in INS2014, and in Sandstorm there were some changes made awhile back that makes it more difficult and not in a way that I think feels enjoyable or rewarding.

There was a change log posted awhile ago that said something to the effect of “Reduced ADS recoil by x%.” Another way of reading that is “Increased hipfire recoil by y%.”

I get that Sandstorm is its own game, and it wouldn’t be right to say “Well, Source did it this way so Sandstorm should too.” There’s a lot of changes in Sandstorm that are improvements, but I don’t think this is one of them.

In Source it felt like we had increased vertical recoil, but vertical recoil is something that players can adjust and learn to master whereas horizontal recoil takes control out of the players’ hands and turns it into a game of chance.

There also seems to be a “third shot recoil” mechanic when hip firing where your character will jerk their weapon wildly to the right or left. It’s most noticeable in semi, it’s not really a big deal in auto because the next shot or two kicks it back in the opposite direction.

I’d really like the Source recoil handling to be adopted. It was still challenging, but in a good way where you always felt like you were in control and could adjust your playstyle around the hipfire weapon handling. The hipfire mechanic in Sandstorm feels like change for the sake of change and not for the sake of improvement.

[jch9884]

Hipfire recoil should be decreased when standing still or moving slowly. It is bit weird that hipfire recoil doesn't affected by shooter's movement. And I also agree that current hipfire recoil is so horrible to use some weapons in hipfire.
In additional, adding low ready position will be great. Hipfire will be used when high mobility is needed. Low ready will be used when quick aiming is needed. It will also make thick sights viable.

[hobbicon]

No

[Arthur von Tule]

Originally posted by 57th AngryHatter:

No thanks. Game is too easy as it is.

+1

[GAMBiT]

I love how hipfire works in EFT.
In Insurgency recoil is unrealistically high...

[Jason]

+1

[-ExiLe`]

Imo it’s already super duper easy to hit your shots with hipfire, shouldn’t be any easier. However for smgs the horizontal recoil is too high I agree, full auto is too hard, while low recoil actually should be the advantage for smgs.

You would also expect the laser pointer to be the most useful for hip firing smgs, to improve your speed, mobility and accuracy in cqb, but it just doesn’t work. You need to hit multiple rounds to down somebody because of the lower caliber, but you cant reliably do that, due to the massive horizontal recoil.

[Rks01]

Originally posted by fRaNkaLy_FiLtH:

I love how hipfire works in EFT.
In Insurgency recoil is unrealistically high...

In eft there is point fire not hip,,
They should make a option for pointfire and hipfire

[R2zi3l]

+1
Horrizontal recoil is far too bad at the moment. To those who can master the use of it, it should be an additional skill.

[🅖🅞🅥🅡🅘🅝]

just use the m82 it will do some good

[The roast is real]

+0.5
Agree about reducing it for CQB weapons and bullpups.

[Sgt. Pinback]

Originally posted by The roast is real:

+0.5
Agree about reducing it for CQB weapons and bullpups.

+1.0

[Leaper]

Originally posted by 57th AngryHatter:

No thanks. Game is too easy as it is.

Almost every response to every idea on this forums is met with this "its too EZ leave everything broken"

You're essentially comparing apples and ak74s with such a silly response.
The fire of the weapons should be based on their real life performance.

While I've only shot a few weapons in my life I know that recoil in the game is MASSIVELY over the top. There is nothing wrong with re-evaluating this and making it more realistic and more fun to play.

If your concern with the game is difficulty, offer actual solutions on how to make the game harder and still fun to play.