Some Wrestlers Just Can't Be Pinned.

[justabrush]

Ok my Fire Pro brothers and sisters....(seriously is there even one girl who plays fire pro out there?...and I mean actually "plays" not just played with your boyfriend a few times) So this is something I've always wanted to talk about, but never had enough courage to join the Fire Pro Arena to bring up the convo and talk about, cause I'm scared of how much time I would spent on there, but here on steam makes it alot easier so here we...................go.

I noticed first a little bit in Fire Pro Wrestling 2 that some wrestlers were a lot harder to pin. As I became a man and got deep into FPD and Returns I realized after many a hours of research, that some wrestlers simply could not be pinned by others. Genichiro Tenryu became the wrestler I played against the most because he was tough to beat and I loved the challenged of seeing which wrestlers could pin him and which could not. I did a lot of research to find out why this was and surprisingly there wasn't a lot to be found and I looked literally everywhere. I had seen in a post by either Bill Wood or Jason Blackheart that Riku Choshu had been programmed in the game to not be able to be pinned by a Jr. Heavyweight, but after playing that out I don't know if it was really true. I have a Yokozuna with Hardbody that's really tough to pin for some wrestlers but another few wrestlers with Hardbody that can be beat by a bunch of guys.... but then those same guys can't beat Yokozuna or a few other certain Hardbody wrestlers.

Now every wrestler can be submitted by a submission no matter what or hit with a critical but some wrestlers cannot pin others no matter how many moves you use or if they're bleeding or if you wrestle for an hour or if they grab there neck and roll after moves. This is unlike other wrestling games cause no matter what eventually you can pin your opponent no matter how weak you are. I know all about Hardbody and Spirit special skills and that's why some guys cant be pinned, but there are some weaker guys that can pin them because of certain moves and some stronger guys that can't because of certain moves they have, now I'm guessing it has something to do with logic and all that...maybe height as well a bit?.. but I've always wondered what other peoples experiences were with certain wrestlers where it's impossible to pin them.

One of the most important things I forgot to mention was that its all about the ref as well, if you have a faster ref then everyone for the most part can pin anybody, but I always used Joe Higuchi as he was the slow ref, his count speed was slow and his walking speed was slow and this combined with the Hardbody skill made it impossible for some wrestlers to pin others. So my Fire Pro People can anybody lend some info or share any stories on this? It would make me appreciate Fire Pro even more knowing there are others out there.

[Tomkatt]

Originally posted by justabrush:

Ok my Fire Pro brothers and sisters....(seriously is there even one girl who plays fire pro out there?...and I mean actually "plays" not just played with your boyfriend a few times)

....Dafuq? Really dude? That's unnecessary and mildly creepy. Why do you even care...?

As for pinning, are you making multiple attempts to pin throughout the match or just spamming big moves to end it? A few things affect pin success:

- How tired the wrestler is
- How often you've attempted pins for the match duration
- How many times you've hit the move/finisher before pinning (first hit with a finisher has a higher damage quotient and more likelihood for successful pin. Success goes down after the first)
- The wrestler's Ukemi (high Ukemi means higher spirit bonus when stamina tanks out, meaning harder to pin)
- The wrestler's spirit rating in general

Probably other stuff too, but those are the big ones. Submissions work because when a wrestler is out of stamina, they submit, period. If you don't want that to happen, stop using submissions at large damage. Use them in the early and mid-match.

[paladin181]

Originally posted by justabrush:

Ok my Fire Pro brothers and sisters....(seriously is there even one girl who plays fire pro out there?...and I mean actually "plays" not just played with your boyfriend a few times)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
*wheeze*
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[justabrush]

Originally posted by Tomkatt:

Originally posted by justabrush:

Ok my Fire Pro brothers and sisters....(seriously is there even one girl who plays fire pro out there?...and I mean actually "plays" not just played with your boyfriend a few times)

....Dafuq? Really dude? That's unnecessary and mildly creepy. Why do you even care...?

As for pinning, are you making multiple attempts to pin throughout the match or just spamming big moves to end it? A few things affect pin success:

- How tired the wrestler is
- How often you've attempted pins for the match duration
- How many times you've hit the move/finisher before pinning (first hit with a finisher has a higher damage quotient and more likelihood for successful pin. Success goes down after the first)
- The wrestler's Ukemi (high Ukemi means higher spirit bonus when stamina tanks out, meaning harder to pin)
- The wrestler's spirit rating in general

Probably other stuff too, but those are the big ones. Submissions work because when a wrestler is out of stamina, they submit, period. If you don't want that to happen, stop using submissions at large damage. Use them in the early and mid-match.

Tomkatt don't hate. It was just a question cause as I was typing out my thing, I realized that for all the years I have played Fire Pro it has all been men on the Fire Pro Arena message boards and stuff, so I was just curious. Don't see how that's creepy do the same thing in real life when were figuring out what demographic of people watch our show. It's not like I'm going to show up at anybody's house with arsenic laced pickerel. God forbid I ask a question on a message board, but regardless next time since this actually bothered someone, if I have any passing questions about females playing what's seemingly a very, very large male dominated game I'll just keep it to my mildly creepy self.

Anyways not trying to fight and happy you took time to reply so thanks, I know how submissions work which I said in my post so don't know why you're saying that, what I'm saying is that since Returns some wrestlers cannot get a 1,2,3 on certain other wrestlers no matter the situation. I literally have tried everything and I've been playing this game for over 10 years and what I have found was that some wrestlers simply cannot get a 1,2,3 pinfall on others and I'm not talking a really weak guy, wrestlers with good/decent stats cant pin certain wrestlers with the Hardbody skill. Are you telling me that any wrestler in this game can pin any other one?

[Peter_Pumpkin]

Originally posted by justabrush:

Tomkatt don't hate. It was just a question cause as I was typing out my thing, I realized that for all the years I have played Fire Pro it has all been men on the Fire Pro Arena message boards and stuff, so I was just curious. Don't see how that's creepy do the same thing in real life when were figuring out what demographic of people watch our show. It's not like I'm going to show up at anybody's house with arsenic laced pickerel. God forbid I ask a question on a message board, but regardless next time since this actually bothered someone, if I have any passing questions about females playing what's seemingly a very, very large male dominated game I'll just keep it to my mildly creepy self.

While maybe it wasn't all that creepy, it did feel unnecessary. I'm sure that you didn't mean anything by it but the casual suggestion that most women who play this game are doing so because of their boyfriends is a little weird. Fact is that in a lot of discussion groups for games and ESPECIALLY a game about wrestling, women are probably a lot less likely to state that they are a women so they don't have to deal with potential creepiness or some guy questioning whether they are playing because they like the game/wrestling or just "playing because their boyfriend does". Just something to consider because while I don't think you meant anything negative by asking, that is some of why people might not react well to a question phrased like this.

Originally posted by justabrush:

Are you telling me that any wrestler in this game can pin any other one?

I cannot speak for the other games in the series but I have not found any unpinnable wrestlers in World. Granted the default roster is pretty small but I have simmed or played and beaten most of them by pinfall at least once either by virtue of playing the missions or for ♥♥♥♥♥ and giggles when I couldn't make an edit to save my life.

Cheers!

[officemonk]

Well, surely there are girls who can pin them...

Don't give up, wuss; git as gud as these girls!

[justabrush]

Originally posted by danielmark.n.3d:

Originally posted by justabrush:

Tomkatt don't hate. It was just a question cause as I was typing out my thing, I realized that for all the years I have played Fire Pro it has all been men on the Fire Pro Arena message boards and stuff, so I was just curious. Don't see how that's creepy do the same thing in real life when were figuring out what demographic of people watch our show. It's not like I'm going to show up at anybody's house with arsenic laced pickerel. God forbid I ask a question on a message board, but regardless next time since this actually bothered someone, if I have any passing questions about females playing what's seemingly a very, very large male dominated game I'll just keep it to my mildly creepy self.

While maybe it wasn't all that creepy, it did feel unnecessary. I'm sure that you didn't mean anything by it but the casual suggestion that most women who play this game are doing so because of their boyfriends is a little weird. Fact is that in a lot of discussion groups for games and ESPECIALLY a game about wrestling, women are probably a lot less likely to state that they are a women so they don't have to deal with potential creepiness or some guy questioning whether they are playing because they like the game/wrestling or just "playing because their boyfriend does". Just something to consider because while I don't think you meant anything negative by asking, that is some of why people might not react well to a question phrased like this.

Originally posted by justabrush:

Are you telling me that any wrestler in this game can pin any other one?

I cannot speak for the other games in the series but I have not found any unpinnable wrestlers in World. Granted the default roster is pretty small but I have simmed or played and beaten most of them by pinfall at least once either by virtue of playing the missions or for ♥♥♥♥♥ and giggles when I couldn't make an edit to save my life.

Cheers!

Well thanks for clearing that up for me really appreciate it. I legit do zero online gaming and always keep away from posting and this kind of stuff so it's nice to get that kind of advice and perspective. I only got Steam because I am such a huge fire pro fan and that's it, I wont be using it ever for anything not Fire Pro so I had no idea that that comment could seem weird to people. This is the first time I've ever bought a computer game and had no idea chicks got harassed like that cause to the casual gamer it's just video games right? When I think about it though I get what you're saying completely, so thanks for being helpful and steering me in the right direction, doesn't happen often with this kind of stuff.

Now for the game.... not being able to be pinned is only for edits not the default guys, but certain wrestlers with the Hardbody skill and with a slow referee cannot be pinned by some other wrestlers. In returns it was the same with some guys... Genichiro Tenryu couldn't be pinned by some of the wrestlers no matter what. I've see a few people over the years mention it but nothing solid has ever been said.

[View The Phenom]

Best way to deal with Hardbody wrestlers is to pin near the referee, so you get an immediate count. Otherwise you can try beating them down and then locking in a submission, which should give the referee enough time to call the match.

[justabrush]

Originally posted by View The Phenom:

Best way to deal with Hardbody wrestlers is to pin near the referee, so you get an immediate count. Otherwise you can try beating them down and then locking in a submission, which should give the referee enough time to call the match.

Well yeah that's the thing submissions work on everybody no matter what but pins don't always for certain guys. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the game, where it just makes it so certain guys can't get the pin. I had heard years ago that it was programmed so that certain wrestlers couldn't pin others.

[View The Phenom]

Originally posted by justabrush:

Originally posted by View The Phenom:

Best way to deal with Hardbody wrestlers is to pin near the referee, so you get an immediate count. Otherwise you can try beating them down and then locking in a submission, which should give the referee enough time to call the match.

Well yeah that's the thing submissions work on everybody no matter what but pins don't always for certain guys. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the game, where it just makes it so certain guys can't get the pin. I had heard years ago that it was programmed so that certain wrestlers couldn't pin others.

Nope, it's only based on referee count speed and spirit. Once spirit is lowered to a certain point, wrestlers can't kick out of pins no matter who makes the cover; that's the only point when they can submit as well. But if a referee delays the count (slow walk, slow count, etc) then that's additional time for the wrestler to build up enough spirit to kick out.

If you can pin the opponent in such a way that the referee will start counting immediately, then it's going to end the match.

[Peter_Pumpkin]

I guess I'm no longer sure of what your question is...

Are you still going off the basis that you want to know if some wrestlers are impossible to pin by others because of that existing in previous games? If so, the answer has repeatably been no. It would almost be impossible to do that in the same way as previous games as those had a larger default roster to tinker with and add those kinds of subtle things and this one has a small one that are all capable of being pinned and everything else are custom edits and it would be impossible to do that without being extremely random "custom edit 33354 cannot be pinned by jr hw custom edit 77764".

Maybe we have been misunderstanding you this entire time. Are you actually asking if we have noticed other peculiar and neat things similiar to how you found that wrinkle about certain wrestlers being unable to be pinned by others?

[justabrush]

Originally posted by justabrush:

Nope, it's only based on referee count speed and spirit. Once spirit is lowered to a certain point, wrestlers can't kick out of pins no matter who makes the cover; that's the only point when they can submit as well. But if a referee delays the count (slow walk, slow count, etc) then that's additional time for the wrestler to build up enough spirit to kick out.

If you can pin the opponent in such a way that the referee will start counting immediately, then it's going to end the match.

Well then Mr. Phenom if that's your word and you're sticking to it... are you up for a challenge?

[justabrush]

Originally posted by danielmark.n.3d:

I guess I'm no longer sure of what your question is...

Are you still going off the basis that you want to know if some wrestlers are impossible to pin by others because of that existing in previous games? If so, the answer has repeatably been no. It would almost be impossible to do that in the same way as previous games as those had a larger default roster to tinker with and add those kinds of subtle things and this one has a small one that are all capable of being pinned and everything else are custom edits and it would be impossible to do that without being extremely random "custom edit 33354 cannot be pinned by jr hw custom edit 77764".

Maybe we have been misunderstanding you this entire time. Are you actually asking if we have noticed other peculiar and neat things similiar to how you found that wrinkle about certain wrestlers being unable to be pinned by others?

Yes Sir, I believe I may have found a wrinkle as you may say, I wanted to make sure it was an actual wrinkle though and not just me, so I was asking if anybody else had experienced this...if you're up for it I can give you some test subjects so you can see for yourself if I'm onto something or if I've just not figured out this part of fire pro for the last 14 years.