Why Immune pirate ships?

[Smart_Boy]

I get the worm in the middle n such but this is down right stupid. The ship in every encounter with the most firepower but oh no you can't pick targets or shoot off turrets so they aren't such a detriment to HP.

Why was this even established? It was hard enough before, switching between cannon fodder and the big bad but now you have no choice to prioritise anything? I hope I'm incorrect but I assume Swoks will also be immune in his encounter until you get rid of everything else. Making a specific ship type "power up" enemy shields would make sense but this was not communicated at all in game until having to back out of fights as more reinforcements come in that prevent me from killing the main pirate boss as it makes him immune again, WTF? What is the point of ship combat when there is a third godlike force telling you when you can damage who they want?

If I want to get rid of the biggest threat first I should be able to not get told no that isn't the way to play.


EDIT:

To sum up my little vent about the dissatisfaction I have had with these immune encounters, I don't understand why a sandbox that used to have these options free for the player (who to pick off first and whatnot) now is adding MMO mechanics like these are raid bosses of some sort. I play single player and having to micro my ships (that keep attacking these damn things) is just off-putting. You take away my ability to choose that way to play by adding these conditions so it isn't "so easy" or some other excuse but only provide these fixes later like auto turrets no longer targeting them (shouldn't that have been one of the FIRST THINGS TO CONSIDER WITH THE ADDITION OF IMMUNE SHIPS????????)

Makes sense it is their game and they can add what they want, just disappointing it doesn't seem to come from a creative standpoint like one lore-wise or mechanically. I mean why would iron/titanium tier pirates have access to tech that makes their boss immune to all damage???? Makes sense for Xsotan or higher tier ships (If they also made it very obvious and not tether indicators that *sometimes* work).

Game is fun besides these changes that seem to punish players rather than add a better run mechanic. Why not a subsystem that ships can share that divides damage or redirects damage to another ship?? Something players can understand and more easily accept rather than this magic third party now saying it needs to be treated differently.

Oh well, reading the comments is fun at least. Good various viewpoints on the game, I hope we can all agree tho that at the end of the day it is still a great game to have fun in and the ship building is great and easy to get behind.


Edit 2:

Maybe a subsystem that uses experimental tech to redirect attacks from the main ship (making it immune) while the smaller cannon fodder have a receiver subsystem to take the damage instead, like a sort of soul-link.

And to people saying well just don't do pirate encounters then is just a lazy excuse that adds nothing to the conversation. What happens in future if per chance diplomacy is butchered or all chain guns are given cool downs like blasters? A lazy answer would be "don't do diplomacy, don't use chain guns" by saying these things you are actively asking players to limit their own game play when it hadn't been that way before.

The issue wasn't that it always was this it was the fact that it BECAME this, we played how it was before but now these changes with lacklustre reasons behind them (in my opinion) is the issue, like I said...."Why was this even established?"

[Peely]

Life is full of surprises and conventions. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be as worthwhile. If nothing was left to discover and we were just told what to do then we would be robots or slaves. That might be the future Musk and his CIA backers have planned for us (on behalf of the Usual Suspects), but I believe most of us do not want this. You've learned something about the game (and there is a lot more to find out). Just put it down to Experience mate, don't worry about it. Just wait 'til you're wide-eyed in a Rift...

[Narn]

This is yet another way that the 2.0 updated ruined the game. This is why there was a mass exodus of players after the 2.0 update.

[rickcarson]

Originally posted by Narn:

This is yet another way that the 2.0 updated ruined the game. This is why there was a mass exodus of players after the 2.0 update.

No it's not. OP has imagined that a problem exists - but the game doesn't actually work that way. SWOKS is NOT immune. Fake news at 7.

It's just someone having a melty because they ran into one encounter with a boss that was immune until you kill the surrounding ships.

Recent changes in this kind of encounter:

(1) most (but not all) of the time when this happens the boss has a bunch of wiggly lines to the other ships. This was added to provide a visual queue (over and above the weapon damage showing as 'immune' instead of a number.

(2) auto-firing turrets now ignore immune enemies. What this means is that if there's a boss and you have (mostly) auto-firing weapons the encounter is now _significantly_ easier, because there are no wasted shots.

--------

How is this worse? How does this 'ruin the game'? 1.4 had immune enemies too.

There may be valid reasons to hate on 2.x (compared to 1.4), but this absolutely is not one of them.

[Narn]

Originally posted by rickcarson:

Snipped excessive excuses for game

Why does the game need to have immune anything? That is the argument.

I would say its a huge problem with the game. This is evidenced by the drastic drop off in players. Version 2.0 saw a large exodus of players and many negative reviews. The D - team knew before hand that the 2.0 update was not well received before they released it but ignored the community.

[Shamo]

The only annoying thing about it is that your auto turrets actually target immune ships. The damage these ships deal is really low.

[Ken-sama]

Avorion is an excellent ship builder stapled to a bad game. Inexplicably damage-immune enemies is just one of many features which make it that way.

[Smart_Boy]

Originally posted by rickcarson:

Originally posted by Narn:

This is yet another way that the 2.0 updated ruined the game. This is why there was a mass exodus of players after the 2.0 update.

No it's not. OP has imagined that a problem exists - but the game doesn't actually work that way. SWOKS is NOT immune. Fake news at 7.

It's just someone having a melty because they ran into one encounter with a boss that was immune until you kill the surrounding ships.

Recent changes in this kind of encounter:

(1) most (but not all) of the time when this happens the boss has a bunch of wiggly lines to the other ships. This was added to provide a visual queue (over and above the weapon damage showing as 'immune' instead of a number.

(2) auto-firing turrets now ignore immune enemies. What this means is that if there's a boss and you have (mostly) auto-firing weapons the encounter is now _significantly_ easier, because there are no wasted shots.

--------

How is this worse? How does this 'ruin the game'? 1.4 had immune enemies too.

There may be valid reasons to hate on 2.x (compared to 1.4), but this absolutely is not one of them.

I'm glad my assumption about Swoks was wrong then cause that would suck lol. You can say what you want about me but it is true that pirate boss encounters make the main ship immune until you take out the cannon fodder, which in my humble opinion sucks and takes away from what I was used to on older versions of the game.

[Smart_Boy]

Originally posted by Narn:

Originally posted by rickcarson:

Snipped excessive excuses for game

Why does the game need to have immune anything? That is the argument.

I would say its a huge problem with the game. This is evidenced by the drastic drop off in players. Version 2.0 saw a large exodus of players and many negative reviews. The D - team knew before hand that the 2.0 update was not well received before they released it but ignored the community.

Thank you for not taking it as a personal insult and reminded another that I in no way had any other issues in the game besides this immune thing.

I also like how they hyped on about 2.0 or 1.x this and that when I made no mention of any version, just that this decision sucks lmao (in my own and MANY other peoples opinions). I had issues beforehand but they pale in comparison to this,

I was under the assumption they were reverting this way back when and came back to it now being a permanent change without any consideration to why in terms of function and player interaction.

[Smart_Boy]

Here

Originally posted by rickcarson:

Originally posted by Narn:

This is yet another way that the 2.0 updated ruined the game. This is why there was a mass exodus of players after the 2.0 update.

No it's not. OP has imagined that a problem exists - but the game doesn't actually work that way. SWOKS is NOT immune. Fake news at 7.

It's just someone having a melty because they ran into one encounter with a boss that was immune until you kill the surrounding ships.

Recent changes in this kind of encounter:

(1) most (but not all) of the time when this happens the boss has a bunch of wiggly lines to the other ships. This was added to provide a visual queue (over and above the weapon damage showing as 'immune' instead of a number.

(2) auto-firing turrets now ignore immune enemies. What this means is that if there's a boss and you have (mostly) auto-firing weapons the encounter is now _significantly_ easier, because there are no wasted shots.

--------

How is this worse? How does this 'ruin the game'? 1.4 had immune enemies too.

There may be valid reasons to hate on 2.x (compared to 1.4), but this absolutely is not one of them.

I can see how someone wouldn't find this as an issue however to maybe add some different thought here.

By keeping this in the encounters with pirates (not all the time just with bosses I have found so far) it changes the entire player confrontation, it is no longer in the players hands of who they want to attack or prioritise. It is now a game of how much HP/Shield damage you can take and how fast you can kill the cannon fodder. All the while this immune entity can still use it's full firepower to attack.

Now this is being treated like a raid boss from a rpg or something. You did mention some sort of tethers that sometimes work, I haven't seen em, but the issue is why are they there at all? That and I like how you say it sometimes works and that now the auto turrets don't target them ( like that shouldn't have been fixed and changed BEFORE the public branch update lmao, another reason to provide evidence that there was a severe lack of care in this change).

This game is amazing don't get me wrong and I am glad faction fights haven't been changed to this either. Just a shame there are changes/edits that seem to be more out of spite rather than from a creative or constructive view.

Again it is their game and they can do what they wish, they have been hence the player decrease at the reaction of 2.0. Although I find a reaction like this "it their game get over it" is a negative mindset that, if anything, helps solidify the slow death of game studios over the years.

[Smart_Boy]

Originally posted by Peely:

Life is full of surprises and conventions. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be as worthwhile. If nothing was left to discover and we were just told what to do then we would be robots or slaves. That might be the future Musk and his CIA backers have planned for us (on behalf of the Usual Suspects), but I believe most of us do not want this. You've learned something about the game (and there is a lot more to find out). Just put it down to Experience mate, don't worry about it. Just wait 'til you're wide-eyed in a Rift...

Not sure what to reply with but that's some sage sound advice. Thank you :)

[KnifeHeart]

Originally posted by Narn:

This is yet another way that the 2.0 updated ruined the game. This is why there was a mass exodus of players after the 2.0 update.

when people cite the "mass departure of players" in 2.0 i'm curious where they're getting the numbers from. Steamcharts shows a pretty steady 1100-1200 players since 2020. May 2024 was the only month since August 2020 that went under 1000 players, and 2.0 came out in October 2021.

[TheDiaz]

Originally posted by Narn:

This is yet another way that the 2.0 updated ruined the game. This is why there was a mass exodus of players after the 2.0 update.

You keep repeating this, spamming posts, yet you is no evidence whatsoever of this mystical mysterious exodus of players. There are 100 more players on everage since 2.0 compared from before based on steamcharts. Stop spreading missinformation and use some evidence for your baseless comments.

[rickcarson]

Originally posted by Narn:

Originally posted by rickcarson:

Snipped excessive excuses for game

Why does the game need to have immune anything? That is the argument.

snipped salty nonsense

The thing is that immune bosses have existed basically forever, and they're NOT new to 2.x and ERGO the existence of immune bosses is NOT a sensible reason why 2.x is worse than 1.4.

E.g. you CAN legitimately say 'in my opinion Avorion would be better without immune bosses'

But you CANNOT legitimately say 'I preferred pre-2.0 because there were no immune bosses'. (I mean, you can say it, it would just be wrong because it would be factually incorrect)

So you need to de-couple the discussion of immunities and puzzle design in encounter creation from your salty copy-pasta.

[rickcarson]

Originally posted by Shamo:

The only annoying thing about it is that your auto turrets actually target immune ships. The damage these ships deal is really low.

This shouldn't be happening. Although maybe the fix for this is in the upcoming beta. Hrm.

[rickcarson]

Originally posted by Ken-sama:

Avorion is an excellent ship builder stapled to a bad game. Inexplicably damage-immune enemies is just one of many features which make it that way.

I'd be interested in hearing your ideas for building interesting encounters. Not just for Avorion but it might inform encouter design in other games (e.g. RPGs)

From a game design point of view I think they (originally) had these encounters for the purpose of giving the players a problem/puzzle to solve. Which is a very cRPG kind of thing to do. E.g. I don't think anybody would even blink an eye if they had a boss encounter where the minions had to be killed in a particular order in SoulVeilBladeCreed XVII.

The other thing is that all of these encounters are optional. As far as I'm aware there's no encounters where you're peacefully building your megastructure and *blam* an immune boss spawns on you (though the behemoths are close). So if you're fighting an immune boss it's because you went to it, not the other way around.

So if you don't want to fight it ... just jump out. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ???