Love this game but...No Diplomacy? Still??

[Hebrux]

Still no diplomacy? New endgame crises but no diplomacy???

In X4: Foundations, you can start your journey from various gamestarts and take on different roles, from a lone pilot to an empire manager. You can fly every ship personally, build space stations, and upgrade your fleets to massive proportions. However, the lack of diplomatic mechanics makes it feel like your influence isn’t acknowledged.

While the game emphasizes trading, fighting, and building, the absence of diplomatic interactions leaves us players feeling disconnected from the larger universe.

Perhaps future updates will address this issue, but for now, we're left navigating the cosmos as wealthy pilots rather than a recognized empires...

The game is marketed as a 4x Sandbox:
Explore
Expand
Exploit
Exterminate

^Definition of 4x or 4 Ex Game

The issue is that unlike other 4x games, X4 doesn't have a basic diplomacy system.


TLDR:
What's the point in allowing us to build an empire if no recognizes me as an empire?

________
My suggestion:

A new game metric would be tracked that follows the power or net worth of the player and how many sectors they own. This will be the player's "Faction Level"

Once the player reaches a certain net worth and owns at least 1 sector and has atleast 1 station, they should be considered a minor faction. "Faction Level" = Minor Faction

Once the player reaches a certain higher net worth and owns at least 20 stations along with at least 5 sectors, they should be considered a Major Faction (like Argon). "Faction Level" = Major Faction

In the Factions window, depending on the "Faction Level" of the player, the player has the options to negotiate with the other factions. Some options are disabled until an appropriate "Faction Level" is reached by the player.

*Potential Negotiations the player with the appropriate "Faction Level" can initiate with AI Factions:
Trade agreements - Both factions agree to trade their wares at discounted prices to each other and increase trade volume
Trade sectors - Factions can trade any extra NON-CORE sectors (Argon Prime is a Core Sector) that they have to each other.
Non-Aggression-Pacts: Factions are prohibited from attacking one another (if friendly fire accidentally occurs, an apology is automatically issued). Or maybe there is no damage until the Non-Agression Pact is removed (kind of cheaty but friendly fire leading to wars is already an annoying mechanic in the game)
Alliance - Factions are joined at the hip. My enemies are your and your enemies are mine.

*Suggested Galaxy Update:
Dynamic War system where old friends can become enemies and enemies can become friends (this functionality can be optional to the player - in the interest of maintaining galaxy balance)

________

Update:

I spoke to Bernd Lehahn, CEO and Founder of Egosoft (zav42) over Reddit and this is what he said:
"Thank you. Currently not in the office, but we have seen this thread and follow similar ones frequently. We have a long list of ideas for diplomacy related improvements in the future but I can not promise what exactly will be implemented (yet). Thanks for forwarding it to me!"

The goal was to bring this issue up to the change makers at Egosoft, and I'd say we accomplished this goal.

I just hope that Diplomacy is implemented in a sandbox friendly way like how I described in my OP.
________

Here is a link to the official forum where I published this same question. If you are logged in please let your opinion be known so the developers can know how much this feature means to us.
There is a Poll

https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=463836

Link to Reddit discussion:
https://www.reddit.com/r/X4Foundations/comments/1ekflci/comment/lgmqnji/

________

Update December 2024:
We did it folks! We Did it! Diplomacy is on the table for 2025!
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3386274847

From the Egosoft Roadmap:

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/392160/view/4441205298304123197?l=english

Third quarter 2025 – Diplomacy Update

Later in 2025, we are planning a free base game update that will focus on Diplomacy gameplay in X4: Foundations. This update will introduce a new room in the player’s headquarters, where faction representatives can gather and offer you strategic options. In addition to this room, players will have access to agents (NPCs) who can be dispatched on independent missions to achieve diplomatic goals in the X universe. The highlight of this update will be Diplomatic Events, giving players the opportunity to manipulate their own relations with other factions, and even in some cases between specific NPC factions. We’ll have more to share regarding further features of the Diplomacy Update as we get closer to its release.

________

Update April 2025:

Teaser Trailer released!
https://youtu.be/O2xlyJXgCGQ?si=XAHy7MA6o0O6gdN9

[GetUrAssToMars]

Less ♥♥♥♥♥♥ tutorial missions more sandbox dynamics.

[Patola [Linux]]

Originally posted by GetUrAssToMars:

Less ♥♥♥♥♥♥ tutorial missions more sandbox dynamics.

Even the tutorial missions are deemed bad now? I don't get it, if there are people who are dissatisfied with EVERY aspect of the game, why even play it, why even engage in these forums?

I think I DO understand the reservations the developers have with not altering the balance of the universe, but yes, diplomacy could be a little more fleshed out in the way hebrux suggested. Maybe unlock diplomacy after the player finishes the story questlines like the unlocking of reputation from SCA after terraforming? Or if they opt for it in the custom game. That way it would be guaranteed not to spoil the larger game (it should be compounded with the mechanisms for a "smaller faction" like having at least one sector etc., of course).

For the record, I just voted for more diplomacy on the egosoft poll. I hope Egosoft listens and has elbow room for that in the oncoming 7.50 and 8.00 updates.

[Hebrux]

Originally posted by GetUrAssToMars:

Less ♥♥♥♥♥♥ tutorial missions more sandbox dynamics.

I woudn't touch the tutorial missions since I'm sure there are some players who appreciate them plus they're totally optional.

+1 to the More Sandbox Dynamics though. I think basic Diplomacy would make this game more of a sandbox.

The diplomacy I'm advocating for is also optional, meaning it only activates when players reach a certain "Faction Level", which is dictated by player Assets and/or number of sectors owned

[Hebrux]

Originally posted by Patola Linux:

Originally posted by GetUrAssToMars:

Less ♥♥♥♥♥♥ tutorial missions more sandbox dynamics.

Even the tutorial missions are deemed bad now? I don't get it, if there are people who are dissatisfied with EVERY aspect of the game, why even play it, why even engage in these forums?

I think I DO understand the reservations the developers have with not altering the balance of the universe, but yes, diplomacy could be a little more fleshed out in the way hebrux suggested. Maybe unlock diplomacy after the player finishes the story questlines like the unlocking of reputation from SCA after terraforming? Or if they opt for it in the custom game. That way it would be guaranteed not to spoil the larger game (it should be compounded with the mechanisms for a "smaller faction" like having at least one sector etc., of course).

For the record, I just voted for more diplomacy on the egosoft poll. I hope Egosoft listen and has elbow room for that in the oncoming 7.50 and 8.00 updates.

Thank you for voting!

[GetUrAssToMars]

Originally posted by Patola Linux:

Originally posted by GetUrAssToMars:

Less ♥♥♥♥♥♥ tutorial missions more sandbox dynamics.

Even the tutorial missions are deemed bad now? I don't get it, if there are people who are dissatisfied with EVERY aspect of the game, why even play it, why even engage in these forums?

I think you misunderstand me. Poor wording on my part. The tutorial itself is fine. I'm happy they revised them because they were... pretty awful in the beginning. I'm referring to every DLC that uses a series of plot line missions as a means to introduce basic game mechanics. Its happened with multiple dlc now. its redundant, tiresome and a waste of limited resources.

The game is great. I want more of the game. Not bernd's burning passion for intergalactic campfire stories.

[Killzad]

There is a Diplomacy mod made by DedAir the guy who made Eve online mod. Not sure if you need VRO as well with it to run. To find his mod you be better looking on the Egosoft forum or Github repositories for that, since some of his mods will trigger copyright if on steam.

The mod gives the player full control over the diplomacy you can instigate whatever scenario you wish. It also does good job to announce any major changers during the game.

The default setting is if let's say TRI becomes a super power they will start lose reputation with other factions. But this mite result in something like.
1. TEL has declared war to TRI.
2. couple of hours later ARG has declared war to TRI.
3. ANT has declared war to TRI.
4. couple of hours more ZYA has declared war to TRI.

You think by now that TRI will get is bud whopped but if you check the map after some time you mite find out that TRI has kicked everyone's teeth in. And they are evicting everyone and now they have 1200 capital ships ready to smash.

Or there is another bad scenario depending how you see it. Because all factions will fight each other they mite give way to Xenon this what happen in my game. And now Xenon own half of the map have cut the middle of the map from top north to bottom south. They have 1400 capital ships all I's and K's am boxed inside Avarice and thru the gate jump every 2 or 3 minutes full fleet of 5-6 K;s and one I and this never stops.

I think Egosoft can't allow a game that has so many factors to take in to account and simulate economy/production even with the pre-scripted diplomatic events and the Xenon seek and destroy mind set. Any new player will be ok what am doing in this game? I just played 30 hours or 100 hours and suddenly Xenon came and wipe everything i had?

So the game is fine how it is. if you want there is options you just need to look them up.

[NoDMoD]

Originally posted by Killzad:

There is a Diplomacy mod made by DedAir

No, there is not.

DeadAir made a dynamic relations mod, which just changes relations randomly on set time intervals. It has absolutely nothing to do with diplomacy.

[FuryoftheStars]

Originally posted by Killzad:

There is a Diplomacy mod made by DedAir the guy who made Eve online mod. Not sure if you need VRO as well with it to run. To find his mod you be better looking on the Egosoft forum or Github repositories for that, since some of his mods will trigger copyright if on steam.

The mod gives the player full control over the diplomacy you can instigate whatever scenario you wish. It also does good job to announce any major changers during the game.

The default setting is if let's say TRI becomes a super power they will start lose reputation with other factions. But this mite result in something like.
1. TEL has declared war to TRI.
2. couple of hours later ARG has declared war to TRI.
3. ANT has declared war to TRI.
4. couple of hours more ZYA has declared war to TRI.

You think by now that TRI will get is bud whopped but if you check the map after some time you mite find out that TRI has kicked everyone's teeth in. And they are evicting everyone and now they have 1200 capital ships ready to smash.

Or there is another bad scenario depending how you see it. Because all factions will fight each other they mite give way to Xenon this what happen in my game. And now Xenon own half of the map have cut the middle of the map from top north to bottom south. They have 1400 capital ships all I's and K's am boxed inside Avarice and thru the gate jump every 2 or 3 minutes full fleet of 5-6 K;s and one I and this never stops.

I think Egosoft can't allow a game that has so many factors to take in to account and simulate economy/production even with the pre-scripted diplomatic events and the Xenon seek and destroy mind set. Any new player will be ok what am doing in this game? I just played 30 hours or 100 hours and suddenly Xenon came and wipe everything i had?

So the game is fine how it is. if you want there is options you just need to look them up.

Yeah, as mentioned, that's not what we (at least I) are asking for. Diplomacy doesn't mean the whole galaxy has to be going to war with itself on its own.

And that mod is on Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2082610148&searchtext=Dynamic

[Vault Traveler]

Originally posted by NoDMoD:

Originally posted by Killzad:

There is a Diplomacy mod made by DedAir

No, there is not.

DeadAir made a dynamic relations mod, which just changes relations randomly on set time intervals. It has absolutely nothing to do with diplomacy.

Well its not random.

From the Mod description:

"Scripted events at set intervals that change relations between two AI factions. The stronger a faction is, the more enemies it will likely have. The weaker a faction is, the more friends it will likely have."

At least it tries to have some logic behind it and you can influance it by manipulating their economy.

[NoDMoD]

Originally posted by Vault Traveler:

Originally posted by NoDMoD:

No, there is not.

DeadAir made a dynamic relations mod, which just changes relations randomly on set time intervals. It has absolutely nothing to do with diplomacy.

Well its not random.

From the Mod description:

"Scripted events at set intervals that change relations between two AI factions. The stronger a faction is, the more enemies it will likely have. The weaker a faction is, the more friends it will likely have."

At least it tries to have some logic behind it and you can influance it by manipulating their economy.

True, but then another question is, what exactly does everone consider diplomacy to be?
I would think of envoys, diplomats and missions, actions you can take to influence standings of factions....

But when I think about this, that would actually be awesome, to send diplomats and spies on missions in ships. Perform assasinations, pay officials.... so much stuff that could be done with that.

[Donauwelle]

Originally posted by NoDMoD:

True, but then another question is, what exactly does everone consider diplomacy to be?
I would think of envoys, diplomats and missions, actions you can take to influence standings of factions....

But when I think about this, that would actually be awesome, to send diplomats and spies on missions in ships. Perform assasinations, pay officials.... so much stuff that could be done with that.

Prettymuch same here


When talking about Diplo think of the avg 3 "staged" diplomacy you see in pretty much every and any Strategy/RTS/4X games since arround 15-20years...
Basicly the Total-stellaris-civ-Endless-Universalis-Diplo-Template wich is (in different forms) used by dozends upon dozends of Strats, ideally with some cool additions and love....

Nothing crazy, really just the standard you get and see copy&Pasted arround games upon games, from biggie to indie, from Sim to 4x to RTS, ideally a bit polished but atm id settle for "anything"

Lazy version
add Diplo-menu
Wars, non-agression, Alliance
This 3 "Stages" are your starting point. Would be lazy AF and with the current state of TW/CA and their perma s*** storms i would love to see you do a tid bit more then they do....

OK version
you add steps in between like Trade-pacts, Defensive alliances, decleration of friendship - Rivalery, federations, mining-rights for sectors, spy-missions for the stabwounds in our backs etcetc.
Might call that "minimum pdx level", if a pdx game releases with less = s***storm

Id love to see version
you be creative (in stealing) and make Ambassador jobs for NPCs ,
smth like Warbands rep+right-to-rule system to simulate some process to acceptance by the other factions, some sneaky interactions like hacking Diplo-terminals to influence other factions reps with Hacking modules,
let the AI check the sectors ressources and if there is a tasty border sector with lots of ress and a weakened faction they generally dont like...
Occupation- major intergalactic crisis and whatnots...
Thats prob all faaaaar off the table considering how the crisis went out (you couldve picked so many ideas from forum/steam and THIS is it?) but nontherless would be cool...


Im afraid Ego thinks of "weiter so" / "Its fine" and is talking about Hatikva plot tho
If THATS the diplo they mean then i would actually vote no.
Id rather watch Paint dry then have that Railroad stuff stuffed into the sandbox

[Hebrux]

Reddit has entered the chat:
https://www.reddit.com/r/X4Foundations/comments/1ekflci/comment/lgmqnji/

[Captain Canard]

Originally posted by Vault Traveler:

True, but then another question is, what exactly does everone consider diplomacy to be?

Exactly. I want some diplomacy features, but not full-blown diplomacy as many people envision it. That doesn't mean I'm opposed to it, but rather that I personally have no use for it. I would probably be opposed to it if it were mandatory game play that interferes with the way I currently play the game, but as long as it's optional, I'm not going to picket against it.

If Egosoft does add it someday, I hope they at least do a good job at it. AI (especially faction "governance" AI) is not their strong suite.

[Hebrux]

Update:

I spoke to Bernd Lehahn, CEO and Founder of Egosoft (zav42) over Reddit and this is what he said:
"Thank you. Currently not in the office, but we have seen this thread and follow similar ones frequently. We have a long list of ideas for diplomacy related improvements in the future but I can not promise what exactly will be implemented (yet). Thanks for forwarding it to me!"

The goal was to bring this issue up to the change makers at Egosoft, and I'd say we accomplished this goal.

I just hope that Diplomacy is implemented in a sandbox friendly way like how I described in my OP.

[NoDMoD]

Originally posted by Hebrux:

Update:

I spoke to Bernd Lehahn, CEO and Founder of Egosoft (zav42) over Reddit and this is what he said:
"Thank you. Currently not in the office, but we have seen this thread and follow similar ones frequently. We have a long list of ideas for diplomacy related improvements in the future but I can not promise what exactly will be implemented (yet). Thanks for forwarding it to me!"

The goal was to bring this issue up to the change makers at Egosoft, and I'd say we accomplished this goal.

I just hope that Diplomacy is implemented in a sandbox friendly way like how I described in my OP.

Somehow, as usual, I exepct the features to be to exact opposite of what I hope for and expect.