When will you enable modusers to use ventures?

[Babay]

The game is definitelly has issues fixable with mods.
Mods are definitelly add good things to the game.
And ventures definitelly does not create conflicts between players (player can't control ships in venture and player is always superior to any venture ship in his space).
And any venture ship data should definitelly be filtered on server (so, noone can ruin other's games).
Mods is official feature of the game.
So, mod users should not be punished for using mods.

[Patola [Linux]]

Yeah, that exclusion "either mods OR ventures" is terribly misguided. What is the point of having a powerful mod tooling and modding language if you motivate people to not use mods?

[The-Gizmo]

I'm pretty sure it's because if/when you can lose ships on Ventures, it'd be pointless on a modded game because you can just cheat in a new ship for free to use again.

EDIT: Or something else along the lines of cheating things in.

[Knightframe]

They arent that big of a deal. They exist mostly just as a extra money source at start of the game.
And for skins.

But you could just install a mod that unlocks all those skins.

https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/37?tab=posts

However you do lose the ability to get a easy epic mods for your ships. (unless there exist a mod where you can just buy them of vendor)

[Alith-Ahnar]

Originally posted by The-Gizmo:

I'm pretty sure it's because if/when you can lose ships on Ventures, it'd be pointless on a modded game because you can just cheat in a new ship for free to use again.

EDIT: Or something else along the lines of cheating things in.

Think more like the modded game has a "Ubernator 3000 XXXXTreme" Ship that is send out into the endless but as for a modded entity the Venture system only works with vanilla assets as those are identical for the explored and exploring games.

either consider it balance or fairness or what ever it is supposed iirc to make sure everyone is on the same page.

[Patola [Linux]]

Originally posted by The-Gizmo:

I'm pretty sure it's because if/when you can lose ships on Ventures, it'd be pointless on a modded game because you can just cheat in a new ship for free to use again.

EDIT: Or something else along the lines of cheating things in.

Reason 1 doesn't make sense. There are many other dangers and caveats in X4 that can make someone lose ships (one recent example came to mind - the explosive asteroids) and they can use whatever mods overpower their game.

A more sensible explanation would be that their cheat would influence -- maybe harm -- another player in their universe. But in the current timid incarnation of Ventures, Ventures ships are neutral and do not attack the player. And any action on them does not propagate to the actual ship in the owner's universe.

[The-Gizmo]

Perhaps they could have an offline Venture mode for modded games that doesn't actually send those ships into other people's games. So that you can still get the paint jobs and mods.

[Patola [Linux]]

@The-Gizmo there is such mod[www.nexusmods.com].

[Babay]

Originally posted by The-Gizmo:

I'm pretty sure it's because if/when you can lose ships on Ventures, it'd be pointless on a modded game because you can just cheat in a new ship for free to use again.

First of all, Mods are no cheating. Mods are officially supported feature, so it can't be cheating.
Second, games are for fun and game difficulty curve is a tool to make game fun. And adjusting difficulty curve for a specific user makes game better for that user.
Mods are used to adjust game difficulty, adjust game interface, add game content and to fix bugs.
All of that is not cheating.
Moreover, "game difficulty" settings alter game difficulty the same way as difficulty-adjustment mods do.
Moreover... have you ever tryed to use superpower cheats in singleplayer game? usually it makes game not fun. Only because super-easy games are no fun.

So, mods are not for cheating.
Difficulty-changing mods usually make game more difficult.

And "make game easy" mods are unpopular.

[Alith-Ahnar]

Originally posted by Babay:

Originally posted by The-Gizmo:

I'm pretty sure it's because if/when you can lose ships on Ventures, it'd be pointless on a modded game because you can just cheat in a new ship for free to use again.

First of all, Mods are no cheating. Mods are officially supported feature, so it can't be cheating.
Second, games are for fun and game difficulty curve is a tool to make game fun. And adjusting difficulty curve for a specific user makes game better for that user.
Mods are used to adjust game difficulty, adjust game interface, add game content and to fix bugs.
All of that is not cheating.
Moreover, "game difficulty" settings alter game difficulty the same way as difficulty-adjustment mods do.
Moreover... have you ever tryed to use superpower cheats in singleplayer game? usually it makes game not fun. Only because super-easy games are no fun.

So, mods are not for cheating.
Difficulty-changing mods usually make game more difficult.

And "make game easy" mods are unpopular.

"Post it again Baby!"

this made me chuckle a little the most popular mod on Nexus for the X³ Games is/was the cheat mod the name alone does tell a story.

I agree mods are not inherent cheats but a lot outright are.

Still you missing the point of the topic we don't have Ventures in modded games because a modded game could have assets and rules that differ from the vanilla game.

If this is not visual enough why this could lead to problem's just take it like a champ until EGOsoft decides different and finds to work around this issue Ventures won't happen with modded games.

[Babay]

Originally posted by Alith-Ahnar:

Originally posted by Babay:

This made me chuckle a little the most popular mod on Nexus for the X³ Games is/was the cheat mod the name alone does tell a story.

You know... I've checked. And the most popular mod is
X3AP LU Small Improvements and Fixes
Are you sure it's about cheating?

Originally posted by Alith-Ahnar:

Originally posted by Babay:

I agree mods are not inherent cheats but a lot outright are.

the mods are first of all to mod the game, not to cheat the game.

Originally posted by Alith-Ahnar:

Originally posted by Babay:

Still you missing the point of the topic we don't have Ventures in modded games because a modded game could have assets and rules that differ from the vanilla game.

You are talking about client-side data verification. Make a client that will ensure that the data is correct.
And you should know that client verification is totally unreliable.
All verification of the data that you send between clients must be done on the server.

Originally posted by Alith-Ahnar:

Originally posted by Babay:

If this is not visual enough why this could lead to problem's just take it like a champ until EGOsoft decides different and finds to work around this issue Ventures won't happen with modded games.

Server-side data verification is not an 'issue'. It's a must-have.

Just try to imagine, the server does not verify data sent between clients. It only ensures a client app has no "modified" flag.
A hacker can hack his client application and send anything to other players.
That would be terrible.

[Alith-Ahnar]

You won't find the Cheat menu anymore on Nexus at least that is my knowledge explains why it is not one of the most popular if not the anymore.

X4 does not use a Server Client system in the traditional sense for games as soon as you send out your ship it is gone there is no real time tracking.

The Issue is not cheating or hacking the issue that assets have to be the same for the game sending out the venture ship and the game that is been visited.

Repeat: Venture and Ventured Games have to use the same baseline game rules until EGOsoft decides to change it's mind and just jolo it.

The same baseline..

[Babay]

Originally posted by Alith-Ahnar:

X4 does not use a Server Client system in the traditional sense for games as soon as you send out your ship it is gone there is no real time tracking.

Why do you talk about realtime here? "Realtime" and "client-server architecture" are different things.
And there is definitelly client-server (or p2p interaction, less likely).
Game connects to server, sends 'venturing ship' data to server. And then server sends the data to other clietns.
And the server MUST filter that data.
Filtering means ensuring that data is correct.
Correct means that data matches 'vanilla data'.
And Server-side filtering is the only way to ensure that "assets are the same".

Originally posted by Alith-Ahnar:

Repeat: Venture and Ventured Games have to use the same baseline game rules until EGOsoft decides to change it's mind and just jolo it.
The same baseline..

Nope. That's definitelly not true.
What is true is that data sent from one client should be readable and correctly understood by another client.
Your game client does not care if my game client uses same "baseline and rules". It's not of it's business. What your game client care is that data it receives is correct and folows the same "baseline and rules" your game client uses. No more, no less.

And the only way to really ensure that the data your client receives conforms to the “baseline and rules” it uses is to verify the data on the server side.

Repeat: server-side data verification is the only way to ensure, that data your game client receives is correct and follow the same "baseline and rules" your game client uses.

[Elder Drake]

There is absolutely no reason to not allow modded games to use the Venture system as Babay is right, it is not your client that does the work but the server that does not care one iota if you are modified. It will only accept stock vanilla ships as it can not see modified ones (say unique design, modified damage, modified speed, etc). The ONLY argument is that the Captain sent may be more easily skilled via mods than what a vanilla game has.

What does this matter though as those ships can do nothing anyways even if they show up? At least there is a mod that allows Ventures to be played and simply mimics the results (better I may add last I checked) than the official. Still a puzzling move by Egosoft but eh, what can we do but ask for them to reconsider.

[eMYNOCK]

Originally posted by tourist:

Do custom logos show up on venture ships?

when the receiving player has your custom logo in his Logo Folder the Custom Player Logo will be painted onto the Venture Ship.

Otherwise it will be the default Logo.

[Babay]

Originally posted by tourist:

Do custom logos show up on venture ships?

As far as I know, you'll see custom logo on venturing ships from another player if you already have that custom logo.
Found here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/X4Foundations/comments/a8kc68/do_you_use_custom_logos_and_go_on_ventures_share/