More performance in 21? ( MP focused )

[Wish Granter]

We got anything comfirmed?

Right now, even on lowest settings with 36 GB rm and 8 GB VRAM, especially inside cities or tier 5 POIs, when more zombies wake up the game drops to around 20-25 fps with heavy stuttering.

Its mostly just more zombies waking up, not the POI itself.
This can be experienced far worse in MP.

So I do hope that Tier 5 POIs, bigger cities also get some boosting.
In MP we f.e cant even do tier 5 quests together cause some might not even be able to enter those buildings once zombies wake up/ expierence freezing, crashes, extreme stutters.

If anyone know, let me know, thanks. Havent found any mentioning in the Patchnotes, I might have overread tho.

EDIT: as of this probaly being understood as "the game runs crap in general" I have to add that this mostly affects MULTIPLAYER (and Bigger POIs/ Cities in general)
I have not expierenced heavy performance issues in SP to this day. Playing since alpha 9, even on weaker systems then now, and SP was always good for me.
However, even on paid servers with in theory "unlimited ram", and a machine bigger POIs just tend to die with the game. Right on top of you.
The more players, the worse the Issue gets.
As soon as aggro zombies are involved, some Horde nights/ bigger POIs turn into slideshows and make everyone leave cause they either die and know it 2 minutes later, or they simply not having fun with 5 fps.

I would still recommend this game.
CPU
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-10600K CPU @ 4.10GHz (12 Cores)
32,0 GB DDR4
SSD
GPU
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER
8 GB VRAM

[Wish Granter]

Publicado originalmente por ElDudorino:

Publicado originalmente por SylenThunder:

Something else that is always interesting. Guys come out and complain with all of this whining and throw only random half-baked system specs out there.

Then later you find out they're doing something hugely dumb like running a 3090 on a first-gen Ryzen. Either that or they're running on a pre-built system from Best Buy with awesome specs, but it's never been correctly configured, and it's loaded with bloatware slowing it down.

To be fair, even if the first-gen Ryzen wasn't that great for gaming, it beats the hell out of the "recommended specs" for this game.

True. But you can run a NASA pc and f. up the configurations so bad that you cant play tetris on it.
All parts of a system have to work for the sytem to work...or something like that? Dont quote me :P.
But your right. Even far past recommended settings, in MP, this game can turn into a slideshow.

[Tahnval]

Publicado originalmente por SylenThunder:

Publicado originalmente por briancourt2:

I always enjoy these threads.

Something else that is always interesting. Guys come out and complain with all of this whining and throw only random half-baked system specs out there.

Then later you find out they're doing something hugely dumb like running a 3090 on a first-gen Ryzen. Either that or they're running on a pre-built system from Best Buy with awesome specs, but it's never been correctly configured, and it's loaded with bloatware slowing it down.

Blaming customers and sneering at them is always easy and sometimes justified, but it's not always true.

Have you done tier 5 POIs on a PC that meets the stated minimum spec for running 7DTD? Or even greatly exceeds it. The real minimum spec is far higher than the stated minimum spec, which might have been accurate 10 years ago with alpha 1.

The idea that PC gaming should be restricted only to knowledgable hobbyists who custom build a $2000+ well balanced machine and expertly tune it for optimal performance isn't a good marketing strategy for a company selling games to the mass market because that's not the mass market.

I do custom build my PCs and I am knowledgeable and I don't have bloatware and I do tune for performance from the BIOS to the OS. And I'm aware of the performance issues with 7DTD, which do exist.

[Wish Granter]

Publicado originalmente por Tahnval:

Publicado originalmente por SylenThunder:

Something else that is always interesting. Guys come out and complain with all of this whining and throw only random half-baked system specs out there.

Then later you find out they're doing something hugely dumb like running a 3090 on a first-gen Ryzen. Either that or they're running on a pre-built system from Best Buy with awesome specs, but it's never been correctly configured, and it's loaded with bloatware slowing it down.

Blaming customers and sneering at them is always easy and sometimes justified, but it's not always true.

Have you done tier 5 POIs on a PC that meets the stated minimum spec for running 7DTD? Or even greatly exceeds it. The real minimum spec is far higher than the stated minimum spec, which might have been accurate 10 years ago with alpha 1.

The idea that PC gaming should be restricted only to knowledgable hobbyists who custom build a $2000+ well balanced machine and expertly tune it for optimal performance isn't a good marketing strategy for a company selling games to the mass market because that's not the mass market.

I do custom build my PCs and I am knowledgeable and I don't have bloatware and I do tune for performance from the BIOS to the OS. And I'm aware of the performance issues with 7DTD, which do exist.

Me too. Now, im not a computer experts but ive let people like you tune my machine. 2500+ costs, the BIOS settings are optimized and the graphic card/ processor "settings" if I may call it that (english isnt my first language) are also optimized.
And horde nights / bigger POIs tend to be bad. (In MP mostly).

Btw, do you have tips, like, what settings you may have changed (in the game) to make it run better, espeically MP?
Any "death switch" one should def. pull when Horde nights and Tier 5 Pois turn into nightmares?

And dont worry about that other thing.
If you dare to call out "performance" in this game, you are immidantly shait on, or fired back. You could type the most polite and accurate, 150 Side long post with a video on how you build your PC yourself attached, one would call you out for being the wrong one.
Its like a key word, a trigger, that turns the before happy man into a keyboard warrior.
Kinda funny.

[XLAPE]

Publicado originalmente por SylenThunder:

Publicado originalmente por briancourt2:

I always enjoy these threads.

Something else that is always interesting. Guys come out and complain with all of this whining and throw only random half-baked system specs out there.

Then later you find out they're doing something hugely dumb like running a 3090 on a first-gen Ryzen. Either that or they're running on a pre-built system from Best Buy with awesome specs, but it's never been correctly configured, and it's loaded with bloatware slowing it down.

Bruh(s)... Performance has gone down. Is optimisation too much to ask for?

Used to run this on medium preset at 80FPS now low i get below 30FPS sometimes...

[[STD]Random Lead]

Publicado originalmente por Wish Granter:

Publicado originalmente por briancourt2:

I always enjoy these threads. As a SW guy I get a kick out of them. One side will always say you don't optimize until you are done. The other side says, i can't play it so please spend time on it.
As if only side could be right.
The truth is, it may not be prioritized yet. The fact that it isn't prioritized is worrying. it suggests it is not easy. optimization often comes from architecture, which anyone in the SW community knows is what you do first, not last. It would be like building a cruise ship and saying until all the food courts and pools, and auditoriums are done, than we can make it fast as a speed boat. Now there might be low hanging fruit, but after that the promise of optimization late stage is not really going to happen. You might find a few places that are poorly coded, but if they are, the design process is weird, cause the culture has been "it is done when it is done", implying we are doing it right, and not taking short cuts, which is what caused the technical debt to be fixed later. This is the software guys hoping that after 10 years, the hardware outpaced their features being added such that most people see a better operating game, not for what they did. I agree, Voxel, and the engine they didn't write mostly limits this. So they are not working on it, but if it happens, it wasn't because they prioritized it, it was lucky. If you keep it in Alpha for 10 years, you get a lot of chances for luck.

Now I can point out there are some serious bugs in the game. it isn't optimization, but tomato tomatoe. I get 100fps until someone joins my game and I get 65fps on full settings. If one zombie decides to hit a block, 20 fps drop. If I had a horde base that involved them breaking blocks, unplayable. I rely on pathing where they die before they go into rage mode. I hated when they made zombie falling equate to chance of rage mode. that meant chance to drop 20 fps. I have no idea why a zombie hitting on a block causes this. it makes no sense to me. It makes no sense to me why opening a crate might take 2 seconds to load and display it. Those feel like they could be fixed.

But if you are getting a low fps all the time. Sorry. I wouldn't count on that. take the effort into making a better rig. That is what they will be telling you even if they placate you with sometime in the future we will.

CPU
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-10600K CPU @ 4.10GHz
32,0 GB DDR4
SSD
GPU
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER
8 GB VRAM

I always love the "get better rig" argument. Its mostly the first thing people or developers throw around if their game runs like a old VW engine thats been lying in the dirt for 15 years.

If one cannot get this game to run fluid past Tier 3 POIs (when zombies are involved) on mid settings on a 2500 Dollar machine with that stats then I wont accept any blame towards the user.
Many people cant even afford.


But ye as you said, If you take zombies out of this zombie survival game is runs great.
Ive been loading like 70 Dishang towers without entity spawn and have 180 FPS.

Spawning a single aggro zombie:
60FPS.
So, in this "big city" scenario, a single zombie was able to cut performance by 300% (when aggro).

Altough this isnt guaranteed. My last horde in MP with 40 active zombies smashing stuff was steady 55-60 fps.

Then on other days we loot a book store, anger a few guys and one dude decides to leave cuze its unplayable and rather plays something else.
Expecially cities and bigger POIs are a slide show.
Now while my Machine is already strong, my friend runs a about 1/3 stronger processor and a 3080 and plays on half detail settings. (The main one, where you can halfen all tectures) and expierences so heavy stuttering in some POIs or near alot of buildings he cant play.

As of SP, its fine. Mostly. It tends to do some stuttering here and there in big ones, but nothing to worry about.
As of optimization being not on to do list right now, I can only shake my head.
If you do a game where mid to late game content is : "Running around gunning down zombies/ looting big buildings, factories, maiby as quests while building a pretty base" but one cannot do the looting shooting part cuze its on a 20 FPS max schedule, we quit after tier 3 quests and about 21 days as after that, without the city/ factory parts it gets boring.

Like who wants to loot a tier 1 living house when you need fat tier 5 buildings loot.

you payed 2500 for your comp? I hope that was pandemic prices. you kinda got ripped off. I bought a 3060 equipped clunker during the pandemic for less and the 3060 makes a 2070 seem slow. even my prepandemic 1080ti comp was cheaper and that had 64GB ram. yes I know the 1080ti is better than my 3060. I cared more about performance per watt.

[SylenThunder]

Publicado originalmente por Wish Granter:

Publicado originalmente por Tahnval:

Blaming customers and sneering at them is always easy and sometimes justified, but it's not always true.

Have you done tier 5 POIs on a PC that meets the stated minimum spec for running 7DTD? Or even greatly exceeds it. The real minimum spec is far higher than the stated minimum spec, which might have been accurate 10 years ago with alpha 1.

The idea that PC gaming should be restricted only to knowledgable hobbyists who custom build a $2000+ well balanced machine and expertly tune it for optimal performance isn't a good marketing strategy for a company selling games to the mass market because that's not the mass market.

I do custom build my PCs and I am knowledgeable and I don't have bloatware and I do tune for performance from the BIOS to the OS. And I'm aware of the performance issues with 7DTD, which do exist.

Me too. Now, im not a computer experts but ive let people like you tune my machine. 2500+ costs, the BIOS settings are optimized and the graphic card/ processor "settings" if I may call it that (english isnt my first language) are also optimized.
And horde nights / bigger POIs tend to be bad. (In MP mostly).

Btw, do you have tips, like, what settings you may have changed (in the game) to make it run better, espeically MP?
Any "death switch" one should def. pull when Horde nights and Tier 5 Pois turn into nightmares?

And dont worry about that other thing.
If you dare to call out "performance" in this game, you are immidantly shait on, or fired back. You could type the most polite and accurate, 150 Side long post with a video on how you build your PC yourself attached, one would call you out for being the wrong one.
Its like a key word, a trigger, that turns the before happy man into a keyboard warrior.
Kinda funny.

I post this all the time.

Minimum hardware test a18/19 comparison

System comparison

If I can find the free time, I'll do another for a21. I still have that Min-spec system, but it doesn't meet the minimum requirements anymore. I have an array of other systems to test on though and can run similar comparisons.
It just takes me a week to run them all and collate the data, which is free time I don't often have anymore.

[Wish Granter]

Publicado originalmente por SylenThunder:

Publicado originalmente por Wish Granter:

Me too. Now, im not a computer experts but ive let people like you tune my machine. 2500+ costs, the BIOS settings are optimized and the graphic card/ processor "settings" if I may call it that (english isnt my first language) are also optimized.
And horde nights / bigger POIs tend to be bad. (In MP mostly).

Btw, do you have tips, like, what settings you may have changed (in the game) to make it run better, espeically MP?
Any "death switch" one should def. pull when Horde nights and Tier 5 Pois turn into nightmares?

And dont worry about that other thing.
If you dare to call out "performance" in this game, you are immidantly shait on, or fired back. You could type the most polite and accurate, 150 Side long post with a video on how you build your PC yourself attached, one would call you out for being the wrong one.
Its like a key word, a trigger, that turns the before happy man into a keyboard warrior.
Kinda funny.

I post this all the time.

Minimum hardware test a18/19 comparison

System comparison

If I can find the free time, I'll do another for a21. I still have that Min-spec system, but it doesn't meet the minimum requirements anymore. I have an array of other systems to test on though and can run similar comparisons.
It just takes me a week to run them all and collate the data, which is free time I don't often have anymore.

Well exept turning the overall quality to 50% im fine with tuning down. But I aint gonne make this game look like minecraft just to make it playable in certain areas.

Still thanks. Ill take a look into more of this.

[Wish Granter]

Publicado originalmente por STDRandom Lead:

Publicado originalmente por Wish Granter:

CPU
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-10600K CPU @ 4.10GHz
32,0 GB DDR4
SSD
GPU
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER
8 GB VRAM

I always love the "get better rig" argument. Its mostly the first thing people or developers throw around if their game runs like a old VW engine thats been lying in the dirt for 15 years.

If one cannot get this game to run fluid past Tier 3 POIs (when zombies are involved) on mid settings on a 2500 Dollar machine with that stats then I wont accept any blame towards the user.
Many people cant even afford.


But ye as you said, If you take zombies out of this zombie survival game is runs great.
Ive been loading like 70 Dishang towers without entity spawn and have 180 FPS.

Spawning a single aggro zombie:
60FPS.
So, in this "big city" scenario, a single zombie was able to cut performance by 300% (when aggro).

Altough this isnt guaranteed. My last horde in MP with 40 active zombies smashing stuff was steady 55-60 fps.

Then on other days we loot a book store, anger a few guys and one dude decides to leave cuze its unplayable and rather plays something else.
Expecially cities and bigger POIs are a slide show.
Now while my Machine is already strong, my friend runs a about 1/3 stronger processor and a 3080 and plays on half detail settings. (The main one, where you can halfen all tectures) and expierences so heavy stuttering in some POIs or near alot of buildings he cant play.

As of SP, its fine. Mostly. It tends to do some stuttering here and there in big ones, but nothing to worry about.
As of optimization being not on to do list right now, I can only shake my head.
If you do a game where mid to late game content is : "Running around gunning down zombies/ looting big buildings, factories, maiby as quests while building a pretty base" but one cannot do the looting shooting part cuze its on a 20 FPS max schedule, we quit after tier 3 quests and about 21 days as after that, without the city/ factory parts it gets boring.

Like who wants to loot a tier 1 living house when you need fat tier 5 buildings loot.

you payed 2500 for your comp? I hope that was pandemic prices. you kinda got ripped off. I bought a 3060 equipped clunker during the pandemic for less and the 3060 makes a 2070 seem slow. even my prepandemic 1080ti comp was cheaper and that had 64GB ram. yes I know the 1080ti is better than my 3060. I cared more about performance per watt.

Its a upgraded 2070 version, but
Overall yes. This included the price for delivery, me bringing it to a tech to do all the fine ups, the unecessary amounts of LED and a nicer frame. (Alone the way more astethic frame costed around 200 bucks). Otherwise it only had been a grey tower.

Without any uncosts it would probaly go around 2k. If I went for most cheapest unecessary parts (ya know, lights, frame, etc.)
Also count 100 Dollar for the stupid Windows License.
Ordered it about 1 1/3 year ago, so end 2020.

[SylenThunder]

Publicado originalmente por Wish Granter:

Publicado originalmente por STDRandom Lead:

you payed 2500 for your comp? I hope that was pandemic prices. you kinda got ripped off. I bought a 3060 equipped clunker during the pandemic for less and the 3060 makes a 2070 seem slow. even my prepandemic 1080ti comp was cheaper and that had 64GB ram. yes I know the 1080ti is better than my 3060. I cared more about performance per watt.

Its a upgraded 2070 version, but
Overall yes. This included the price for delivery, me bringing it to a tech to do all the fine ups, the unecessary amounts of LED and a nicer frame. (Alone the way more astethic frame costed around 200 bucks). Otherwise it only had been a grey tower.

Without any uncosts it would probaly go around 2k. If I went for most cheapest unecessary parts (ya know, lights, frame, etc.)
Also count 100 Dollar for the stupid Windows License.
Ordered it about 1 1/3 year ago, so end 2020.

Right when price gouging was at a peak. Ideally you have a $1200 system, and it's not even comparable to the previous generation of Intel chips.
I just recently put together a 5950x with 128GB RAM for less than $2000.

Still, you should be doing fine if you aren't on ultra and 4k.

[Wish Granter]

Publicado originalmente por SylenThunder:

Publicado originalmente por Wish Granter:

Its a upgraded 2070 version, but
Overall yes. This included the price for delivery, me bringing it to a tech to do all the fine ups, the unecessary amounts of LED and a nicer frame. (Alone the way more astethic frame costed around 200 bucks). Otherwise it only had been a grey tower.

Without any uncosts it would probaly go around 2k. If I went for most cheapest unecessary parts (ya know, lights, frame, etc.)
Also count 100 Dollar for the stupid Windows License.
Ordered it about 1 1/3 year ago, so end 2020.

Right when price gouging was at a peak. Ideally you have a $1200 system, and it's not even comparable to the previous generation of Intel chips.
I just recently put together a 5950x with 128GB RAM for less than $2000.

Still, you should be doing fine if you aren't on ultra and 4k.

I guess every country and everyday has different prices. Damn apokalypse. Pushing prices.

Welp, aint crying. My country is (yet) doing fine and I can afford a 500 bucks unecessary buy.

I couldnt wait until the apokylpse of 2020 had ended. I needed a better one.
Ya know before I was running a literally China PC for 600 bucks and couldnt even participate in any discussion about performance.

My current lady is able to run all new games on max settings (if you count out some crazy "see every single dust particle on screen" effect which 90% of humanity doesnt even need so I am happy.
The best about Tower PCs is still: Worst case you slap something better in it.

[Underprivileged White Male]

Publicado originalmente por SylenThunder:

Publicado originalmente por Wish Granter:

Me too. Now, im not a computer experts but ive let people like you tune my machine. 2500+ costs, the BIOS settings are optimized and the graphic card/ processor "settings" if I may call it that (english isnt my first language) are also optimized.
And horde nights / bigger POIs tend to be bad. (In MP mostly).

Btw, do you have tips, like, what settings you may have changed (in the game) to make it run better, espeically MP?
Any "death switch" one should def. pull when Horde nights and Tier 5 Pois turn into nightmares?

And dont worry about that other thing.
If you dare to call out "performance" in this game, you are immidantly shait on, or fired back. You could type the most polite and accurate, 150 Side long post with a video on how you build your PC yourself attached, one would call you out for being the wrong one.
Its like a key word, a trigger, that turns the before happy man into a keyboard warrior.
Kinda funny.

I post this all the time.

Minimum hardware test a18/19 comparison

System comparison

If I can find the free time, I'll do another for a21. I still have that Min-spec system, but it doesn't meet the minimum requirements anymore. I have an array of other systems to test on though and can run similar comparisons.
It just takes me a week to run them all and collate the data, which is free time I don't often have anymore.

i7 - 11700kf with a closed loop water cooler
48gb 3200 ddr
gen3 1 tb m.2
rtx 3060 ti undervolted and overclocked
Put it together for around $1200 after the LHR cards came out.

Also have 1gb fiber net with 7 ping to isp

Run every other game I own at a steady 144fps on ultra at 1080p. 7d2d still runs like an anemic sloth on bloodmoons or in city pois in multiplayer.

The problem isn't on my end. Hell it ran like a turd on my past 2 pcs as well lol. As well as the pc's over every single friend that owns the game. All of us spend large amounts of time PC gaming and do our own builds.

Amazing how other games seems to work just fine ehh?

[SylenThunder]

Publicado originalmente por Underprivileged White Male:

Amazing how other games seems to work just fine ehh?

Other games aren't fully 3D Voxel games with Structural Integrity calculations and complex AI pathing. They only care about your GPU, and don't rely a lot on CPU or RAM processing capabilities.

Got to compare apples to apples.

[Underprivileged White Male]

Publicado originalmente por SylenThunder:

Publicado originalmente por Underprivileged White Male:

Amazing how other games seems to work just fine ehh?

Other games aren't fully 3D Voxel games with Structural Integrity calculations and complex AI pathing. They only care about your GPU, and don't rely a lot on CPU or RAM processing capabilities.

Got to compare apples to apples.

It's amazing how other voxel games also seem to run just fine. :)

I'm sorry if the above rig can't run this game smoothly, then the problem is the optimization. You're being dishonest here if you claim otherwise and you know it.

[Gaindalf the Whey]

Yeah I don't even want new features I just want performance tbh

[meganoth]

@WishGranter: Your client PC specs are likely irrelevant since you say you have no problems in SP. And the RAM of your server is not the only spec of your server that is of interest. How is network connectivity for example (which is difficult to measure, not only ping is interesting but also dropped packages along the way). CPU of the server should be well above 2Ghz and not with a too old CPU.

You should check your servers logfiles for the lines with FPS. If you see the FPS often go below 20 then your server CPU is too weak for your workload

You should also check if people can connect with litenetlib to the server, not steamnetworking. If you connect via steamnetworking you likely have much worse roundtrip times for packets.

Lastly performance problems with windows in cities are fixed in A21 and a modder has a mod out for A20 that fixes this. I think you can get the same effect with turing reflections and shadows off completely.

I have a rented barebones server which I use to play together with 3 friends. I have a much weaker client PC (where I usually have shadows and reflections turned off) and we don't have any stuttering in cities or on horde night. This shows that the game principally works well with standard hardware.

How many players are on your server?