Designate Command Vehicle Viable?

[Robin]

Hello all! Just here to exchange some thoughts on the Designate Command Vehicle ability for the British Forces.

Basically, do you consider it viable? I have some impressions of my own, but I'd like to see what the general thinking on it, around here, are before I share my own.

[Stridswombat]

That only makes sense. If the reload/cooldown buff wouldn't apply to the Petard mortar (ability), why would the debuff? That only leave the mobility and defensive nerfs. It still slows down a slow unit and makes it easier to hit. However since Churchill is already bad at both of these characteristics (it's already very slow and easy to hit with no armour to block shots), the higher health pool can help counteract it while it buffs the surrounding vehicles.

I actually had a 1v1 yesterday where I went Churchill and ended up surrounding it with a Cromwell, Centaur and Firefly. Kind of wish I would have picked the commander to try it out with that.

[Stridswombat]

On a sidenote, would a croc as command tank be the slowest vehicle in the game? It already has a slightly lower speed than a regular Churchill at 3.8. Apply the speed debuff from the ability untop of that and it might very well be the slowest vehicle in the game.

[Jonnydodger]

The Wombat of Combat a écrit :

That only makes sense. If the reload/cooldown buff wouldn't apply to the Petard mortar (ability), why would the debuff? That only leave the mobility and defensive nerfs. It still slows down a slow unit and makes it easier to hit. However since Churchill is already bad at both of these characteristics (it's already very slow and easy to hit with no armour to block shots), the higher health pool can help counteract it while it buffs the surrounding vehicles.

I actually had a 1v1 yesterday where I went Churchill and ended up surrounding it with a Cromwell, Centaur and Firefly. Kind of wish I would have picked the commander to try it out with that.

Churchill command vehicle + Firefly would have worked really well. It takes the reload from 8 seconds to around 3-4 I think.
I'm too lazy to check, but I believe it also affects infantry and emplacements? A churchill+17 pounder+ recon would be even better.

[Jonnydodger]

The Wombat of Combat a écrit :

On a sidenote, would a croc as command tank be the slowest vehicle in the game? It already has a slightly lower speed than a regular Churchill at 3.8. Apply the speed debuff from the ability untop of that and it might very well be the slowest vehicle in the game.

Probably, however, it gets less of a debuff, because it's turret isn't it's main weapon; it's flamethrower is. Which doesn't need accuracy. But since it's unlikely to get a crocidile and command vehicle, it doesn't really affect anything.

[Stridswombat]

Jonnydodger a écrit :

Churchill command vehicle + Firefly would have worked really well. It takes the reload from 8 seconds to around 3-4 I think.
I'm too lazy to check, but I believe it also affects infantry and emplacements? A churchill+17 pounder+ recon would be even better.

I don't believe it affects infantry, only vehicles at most. Possibly only tanks but I wouldn't be surprised if it applies to stuff like AEC aswell.

Jonnydodger a écrit :

Probably, however, it gets less of a debuff, because it's turret isn't it's main weapon; it's flamethrower is. Which doesn't need accuracy. But since it's unlikely to get a crocidile and command vehicle, it doesn't really affect anything.

The cooldown and reload nerf will still affect the flamethrower. Cooldown will make it fire less often and it does in fact run out of fuel sometimes and need to reload before it can fire. This reload will also be longer.

Probably less hardhitting than the cannon nerf on other vehicles but it still hurts. Also I believe flamethrowers actually do have actually. They can miss their target and fail to do damage just like regular small arms I believe. They will still do damage with the AoE, but the actually "shot" per se won't deal damage.

http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=churchill_flamethrower_mp Look at the accuracy multiplier. It suggests the flamethrower can actually miss its target and not deal damage with a burst (other than DoT damage). Those multipliers exist on all flamethrowers, i believe.

[Jonnydodger]

The Wombat of Combat a écrit :

Jonnydodger a écrit :

Churchill command vehicle + Firefly would have worked really well. It takes the reload from 8 seconds to around 3-4 I think.
I'm too lazy to check, but I believe it also affects infantry and emplacements? A churchill+17 pounder+ recon would be even better.

I don't believe it affects infantry, only vehicles at most. Possibly only tanks but I wouldn't be surprised if it applies to stuff like AEC aswell.

Jonnydodger a écrit :

Probably, however, it gets less of a debuff, because it's turret isn't it's main weapon; it's flamethrower is. Which doesn't need accuracy. But since it's unlikely to get a crocidile and command vehicle, it doesn't really affect anything.

The cooldown and reload nerf will still affect the flamethrower. Cooldown will make it fire less often and it does in fact run out of fuel sometimes and need to reload before it can fire. This reload will also be longer.

Probably less hardhitting than the cannon nerf on other vehicles but it still hurts. Also I believe flamethrowers actually do have actually. They can miss their target and fail to do damage just like regular small arms I believe. They will still do damage with the AoE, but the actually "shot" per se won't deal damage.

http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=churchill_flamethrower_mp Look at the accuracy multiplier. It suggests the flamethrower can actually miss its target and not deal damage with a burst (other than DoT damage). Those multipliers exist on all flamethrowers, i believe.

Had a quick look. Turns out it effects everything except teammates and captured vehicles. So a Bofors could become a super bofors...

[Robin]

Thanks for the actual stats, Johnnydodger. Do you happen to have the stats on the command vehicle debuff? I think it was just a debuff to its reload and cooldown, so reload and cooldown was 1.3x? Plus the speed debuff.

Anyways, I've been playing more of the Royal Engineer Regiment commander, and I've been finding that it's actually decent. I'm mostly interested in the command vehicle ability because it seems like it has a much greater impact on the user's playstyle than any other unit, even other command units.

I'm not sure if it's so little-used because of a misunderstanding (I saw the impression that the command buff only applied to vehicles), or a dislike on the debuffs (which do hurt, admittedly), but I think it's actually worthwhile, when you build your playstyle around it.

Obviously, it favors a defensive approach. But, rather than being a campy ability, I think it's an ability built more around reaching a critical mass of firepower. The command buff is like a free level of vet (and a *really* good level of vet, at that.) No other ability gives that much value. +35% accuracy, -30% received accuracy, -30% cooldown and reload time. (Guards are being considered OP at -40% received accuracy, -20% cooldown, and +30% accuracy at vet 3. All these bonuses are being stacked in at any point a unit is in the buff radius).

I'm not sure if I think it's OP, especially because it's a clunky thing to use, and it's only going to get more awkward when you need to divert fuel into the AEC just to get the ability out at its same timing, but...I think it's really good.

This applies to all of your units, and it lets you hold off early armor and even light vehicles with just an AT gun. A vet-2 6-pounder fires...really quickly. And when you hit vet 3 on it, the thing becomes a terrifying monster. I haven't experimented much, but I imagine that captured axis equipment is absolutely monstrous with the command buff (imagine the humble mortar, ramped up like this.)

Gotta catch a bus, but more thoughts to come.

[Stridswombat]

Buff: -30% Received Accuracy, +35% accuracy, -30% reload, -30% cool-down

Debuff: -50% speed, +100% reload, +100% cool-down, -50% accuracy, +100% received accuracy

You forgot the accuracy nerf and the increased target size to make it easier to kill...

[Stridswombat]

Jonnydodger a écrit :

Had a quick look. Turns out it effects everything except teammates and captured vehicles. So a Bofors could become a super bofors...

For real? Emplacements? I would never have guessed. Infantry too?

[Robin]

The Wombat of Combat a écrit :

Jonnydodger a écrit :

Had a quick look. Turns out it effects everything except teammates and captured vehicles. So a Bofors could become a super bofors...

For real? Emplacements? I would never have guessed. Infantry too?

Infantry, too. Emplacements. Team weapons. If it's your unit, it gets the buff.

It's easier to kill, yes, but it's not going to be a frontline unit. Obviously, an aggressive flank has a chance to kill it, but it's a mobile unit that forces the enemy to react to you or be ground out.

[Robin]

Anyways, continuation of thoughts: I really enjoy the Command Vehicle for the British Forces. It's worth giving up the Land Mattress for (and I absolutely love the Land Mattress.)

The free recon is probably what the ability is known for, and while it's useful, it's much more effective if you use it to turn your entire force into a fist to deal with an enemy. Even if you only get one pass, that's probably enough time to have seen the entire map, in a 1v1. You know exactly where the enemy is coming from, where their supporting units are, and what elements are being separated from the main force (and since it's a 1v1, you can probably guess where those extras are headed). It really lets you make the faction shine as a quality faction, by giving you time and intel necessary to set your forces up in the best possible positions.

And *then* you have them all just doing their jobs better. Veteran LMG units, with the command vehicle buff, will absolutely shred through units out of cover. The sniper isn't a terrible choice to bring in, later game, because the command vehicle buff lets you upscale it. You're nearly getting the vet-3 stats for the sniper...for the price of keeping it near a vehicle that is already going to camp out at your backline.

The mortar pit gets better, but I'm not sure by how much, since I rarely pay attention to the pit unless I need something barraged (with smoke or with HE, whichever.)

I dunno, basically, I encourage you, if you play the British Forces, to use the Designate Command Vehicle ability. I think that, once you get used to playing to its strengths, you'll really enjoy it. It's not good for aggressive flanking moves, since a good portion of your force needs to be capable of providing a combined arms kind of defense, but if you like defensive play (and come on...you're playing Brits. You are practically legally obligated to like defensive play), it's a good contender.

[Maschinengewehr]

I remember experimenting with all the buffs of it a while ago. Had a command vehicle near a 17 pdr with the garrison bonus active as well. It fired so quickly that it didnt even finish its reload animation before firing the next shot. It got even faster with vet, down to about a 3 second reload iirc.

[Robin]

Maschinengewehr a écrit :

I remember experimenting with all the buffs of it a while ago. Had a command vehicle near a 17 pdr with the garrison bonus active as well. It fired so quickly that it didnt even finish its reload animation before firing the next shot. It got even faster with vet, down to about a 3 second reload iirc.

Honestly, the buff is very effective if you keep units inside of it. The massive uptick in rate of fire can do a serious number on any tank that is unfortunate enough to wander into your AT gun batteries. It's almost better not to spot for them, since it means tanks caught in the arc of fire will be that much closer when the guns open up. It doesn't buff pen, but when it's doing so much good for every other stat, it doesn't need to, really.

The ability really turns the British Forces into a mighty glacier kind of faction, rather than just a stone wall. You're a bit more mobile, but as you have probably come to appreciate if you play brits, mobility is so very good.