1.17: Broken steering, no brakes, and less engine power

[SteelRodent]

Going from home to the shop to fix the wheels after the patch, I noticed immediately that my truck seemed to have no brakes anymore when I crashed into the traffic right outside the garage. Next it was incredibly hard to make it around the corners without taking out all the street signs.

I've had to crank up the braking intensity and steering sensitivity quite significantly to even make it out of town (two settings I have never had to touch since the game was released years ago), but it still acts like the steering wheel isn't attached to the front wheels, or the maximum (minimum?) steering angle is set way too high (can't find any way to change that either).

The truck just won't turn enough to follow the curves on the road. It's bad enough on the motorway, where getting around the cloverleafs without scrapes is no longer possible, but going down windy country roads it's impossible to follow the lane or avoid all the street signs. Crashed my truck into another for 70% damage (something I've also never managed before in ETS2 or even 1), simply because the steering is so utterly broken that I can't make the truck turn enough to go around sharp turns even at half the speed limit. Considering it used to be possible go 90 on most these roads without hitting anything, this is pretty bad.

Going uphill (before the last crash), my 730 hp Scania 6x4 also seem to only run on half the cylinders, because it drops speed like never before (with a 13 T load). Used to be able to pass other trucks uphill in the German alps (going from Kiel to Torino), but now even at full throttle it struggles to make 30 kph.

[Admiral Duck🦆]

After lots of reading and testing some stuff myself it seems the problem is mostly with the DAF Euro 6 and the best way to get good steering is to use the 4x2, 6x2/4 or 6x2/4 midlift chassies as the trailer seems to push more weight on the main steer axles.

[room217au]

Messaggio originale di ST-R Solutech ST:

I have driven the Euro6 all day today on three different runs from 9T to 43T and it steers perfectly normally for me . Just the same as it has from the release of the Euro6 a few patches back .

Im running Ohahas E6 V1.29 . Maybe Ohaha put some special sauce in the chassis I'll compare it with stock defs .

Try the vanilla Euro6 6x4 chassis without mods. See if it handles like a wet sponge.
I'm talking about the top-of-the-line truck. The last in the list.
I'm about to d/l Ohaha's mod as well.

edit1:
Ok. This is different. The Ohaha DAF mod contains a 6x2.sii chassis file. In it, is this:
powered_wheel[0]: true # front wheel left
powered_wheel[1]: true # front wheel right
powered_wheel[2]: true # rear wheel left
powered_wheel[3]: true # rear wheel right
powered_wheel[4]: true # rear wheel left
powered_wheel[5]: true # rear wheel right
That chassis steers correctly. I'm gonna change the vanilla DAF chassis 6x4 so all wheels are powered.

edit2:
Changed default 6x4 chassis in DAF to have 6 powered wheels, as per Ohaha's mod.
Made absolutely ****all difference.
I'm baffled.

[[ST-R] Solutech [ST]]

Im totally lost as its not chassis settings and weights and its not in the physics file . It has to be somewhere lol I'll test a 6x4 here at least that way I can say yes or no .

[[ST-R] Solutech [ST]]

Ok tested 6x4 Chassis . I even recorded it . Lets put this to rest now . 1.17 = Fine , Daf Euro 6 6x4 = Fine .

https://youtu.be/7Fbq7rgW0nA

Watch the video and you will see . Stops,Starts,Steers perfectly normally . Yes the steering is a bit light but thats because your driving two sets of axles it will overpower causing understeer if you drive like a wally with it .

[[ST-R] Solutech [ST]]

I suspect this is the same for all 6x4's its either your control setup or the problems between the chair and desk .

[Shower Curtain Apparition]

Messaggio originale di ST-R Solutech ST:

Ok tested 6x4 Chassis . I even recorded it . Lets put this to rest now . 1.17 = Fine , Daf Euro 6 6x4 = Fine .

https://youtu.be/7Fbq7rgW0nA

Watch the video and you will see . Stops,Starts,Steers perfectly normally . Yes the steering is a bit light but thats because your driving two sets of axles it will overpower causing understeer if you drive like a wally with it .

I think the issue is there is a sudden difference. If this is truely the way it should "feel" then why is it suddenly effective, immediately after a patch at that? I had a 6x4 chassis pre .17 and never had this problem. Also in the video, whomever it is was contradicted himself regarding the light steering, brushing it off as well you'll have to drive a bit slower. I didn't have to any slower pre .17 And if the settings files haven't changed then something is broken somewhere else. Possibly an update regarding the tires and rims being separated?

[Shower Curtain Apparition]

NB4 anyones experience gets thrown in on my comment, I'm only suggesting clarification form the Devs, not a change. If the Developers intended it for this entirely the whole time I can roll with that. But until this update, This was never an issue and I was lead to believe this entire time prior to .17 all was as it should have been.

[[ST-R] Solutech [ST]]

As I said in the video they have made the game feel more realistic . The steering is lighter because of two factors 1 you have two drive axles which mean more power/traction to drive and less traction to steering . 2 Push from the trailer also causing loss to the steering .

These are intentional changes to the games realism and its spot on . Ask anyone that drives a rwd car with some guts to it what happens if you try to power through a bend . It goes straight .

Patch isnt broken , truck isnt broken . Its simple people need to change how they drive . You saw in the video it corners fine . If yours wont its how your driving it nothing more .

[bukkie661]

Messaggio originale di ST-R Solutech ST:

As I said in the video they have made the game feel more realistic . The steering is lighter because of two factors 1 you have two drive axles which mean more power/traction to drive and less traction to steering . 2 Push from the trailer also causing loss to the steering .

These are intentional changes to the games realism and its spot on . Ask anyone that drives a rwd car with some guts to it what happens if you try to power through a bend . It goes straight .

Patch isnt broken , truck isnt broken . Its simple people need to change how they drive . You saw in the video it corners fine . If yours wont its how your driving it nothing more .

Absolutely. Some adaption is needed as the trucks won't turn anymore if you hit a bend/corner with overspeed.
That said, the turningcircle in my perception is too wide now for certain trucks. You have to be a very lazy pilot to have a Volvo FH end up on the upcoming lane during a turn, yet in ETS you end up there reliably, forcing you to hold the turn much longer than you would do in real life. So you're always jack-knifing in a city for instance. I've found that initial countersteering before entering a bend does fook all to narrow the turning-radius now. That used to be quite different.

I'm happy that trucks don't turn directly anymore, you have to start turning a little before the bend. Trucks are no longer go-karts and that's just how it should be. Basically, you have to start many actions before they're current, and that's fine. One's driving a truck. Not a supercar.

[RaVen]

on kb/mouse breaks are broken ... i thought game restart my break force to minimum but no... what just happend ?

[Moving Shadow]

I tried pulling different loads today, I first tried it with a 22t load, and the braking was what I expected it to be, then I tried it with an 8t load, and again, the truck responded how I expected it to, and it was nice to see the truck actually behaving differently with different load weights.

But then I tried braking with no trailer at all, and the truck braked as if it was still carrying a load. So I suppose they're making progress, just need to fine tweak some of these update changes.

Keep it up SCS, heading in the right direction.

[room217au]

Messaggio originale di ST-R Solutech ST:

Ok tested 6x4 Chassis . I even recorded it . Lets put this to rest now . 1.17 = Fine , Daf Euro 6 6x4 = Fine .

Watch the video and you will see . Stops,Starts,Steers perfectly normally . Yes the steering is a bit light but thats because your driving two sets of axles it will overpower causing understeer if you drive like a wally with it .

In your video @ 8m3s is exactly what I'm talking about. The wheel was turned 180deg to the right and the truck went straight ahead hitting a guide-post. This is not right.

The 'two sets of axles' point is rubbish. No truck does that. A trailer's momentum in a corner (ie going up an onramp to a motorway) does not cause the kind of understeer that I'm seeing in the DAF 6x4. The only thing that will happen when a trailer "pushes" a prime-mover is the rear axles of the prime-mover slide in the direction the trailer is pushing them. eg Going down a hill turning left, and going too fast will cause the prime-mover to appear to oversteer, because the drive axles are being pushed towards the right by the trailer.

Understeer is when the front of your vehicle hits the fence.
Oversteer is when the back of your vehicle hits the fence.

I've gotta investigate this further because this doesn't happen with my other trucks.
Ohaha's 6x6 chassis fixes the problem and I don't know why.

[bukkie661]

Messaggio originale di room217au:

Messaggio originale di ST-R Solutech ST:

Ok tested 6x4 Chassis . I even recorded it . Lets put this to rest now . 1.17 = Fine , Daf Euro 6 6x4 = Fine .

Watch the video and you will see . Stops,Starts,Steers perfectly normally . Yes the steering is a bit light but thats because your driving two sets of axles it will overpower causing understeer if you drive like a wally with it .

In your video @ 8m3s is exactly what I'm talking about. The wheel was turned 180deg to the right and the truck went straight ahead hitting a guide-post. This is not right.

The 'two sets of axles' point is rubbish. No truck does that. A trailer's momentum in a corner (ie going up an onramp to a motorway) does not cause the kind of understeer that I'm seeing in the DAF 6x4. The only thing that will happen when a trailer "pushes" a prime-mover is the rear axles of the prime-mover slide in the direction the trailer is pushing them. eg Going down a hill turning left, and going too fast will cause the prime-mover to appear to oversteer, because the drive axles are being pushed towards the right by the trailer.

Understeer is when the front of your vehicle hits the fence.
Oversteer is when the back of your vehicle hits the fence.

I've gotta investigate this further because this doesn't happen with my other trucks.
Ohaha's 6x6 chassis fixes the problem and I don't know why.

It's better to explain the two states like this:
Understeer widens the turningradius into the extremes;
Oversteer narrows the turningradius into the extremes.

A single tractor has oversteer. European trucks are nothing but an insanely powerful engine with a set of wheels bolted on; without a load you can figureskate with them.

Everything that expands on the basic single rear-axle set-up introduces understeer, though with a load added, the amount of axles aren't all that interesting other than that you'll have a hard time getting your truck over the austrian border.

Extra axles plus a heavy load make the understeer potently present and you'll need to be at the correct cornering-speed, which also differs on the given that a dragging axle needs a wider turningradius than a helping axle.

If your load pushes your truck out of control when going downhill then a couple of driver-errors are happening. The most obvious one being that the truck is traveling too fast upon going downhill.

[ptr1ck]

I used to drive overloaded top-heavy 40 ton trucks in real life. None were as bad as this problem except when the fifth wheel was slid too far back on a long chassis while loaded in the rain.

There shouldn't be problems because:
-The trucks in this game are short chassis length compared to American hoods, like W900.
-This occurs in game when not at max weight, it doesn't take 40 gross tons to make this happen.
-This occurs on dry pavement in the game.

In summation, I believe the issue is with the model which is why custom models don't have this issue. The trailers' weight is simply being applied too far back on the chassis of some trucks.

[room217au]

Messaggio originale di ptr1ck:

I used to drive overloaded top-heavy 40 ton trucks in real life. None were as bad as this problem except when the fifth wheel was slid too far back on a long chassis while loaded in the rain.

There shouldn't be problems because:
-The trucks in this game are short chassis length compared to American hoods, like W900.
-This occurs in game when not at max weight, it doesn't take 40 gross tons to make this happen.
-This occurs on dry pavement in the game.

In summation, I believe the issue is with the model which is why custom models don't have this issue. The trailers' weight is simply being applied too far back on the chassis of some trucks.

Scania, Iveco, Renault, etc don't do it.
I thought it might be a model problem too, ie the turntable (5th wheel), but I need to go back through the patch notes to see what was changed. I checked the difference in turntable positions between screenshots of different trucks and the distance is negligible. I mean not enough, imho, to cause such a thing. BUT, this being a game, it might just be an '8' in the place in the code where there should be a '5', if you get my meaning.

You're right, I don't see this in the Kenworth or Peterbilt, so for now, I'm shelving it.
The issue is completely surrounded by an SEP Field as far as I'm concerned.
Happy trucking :)