Why is SCS using the same engine for ATS, which is really bad?

[Penemue]

Now, I like this game. I like SCS too for their continous support of ETS2. However, I don't get why they are insisting so much on this in-house game engine. After tons of updates, the game looks better and performs better ONLY if you compare it to how it was in the beginning.

A lot of people who plays this game does not own a super-ultra-high-killer PC and the game performs quiet badly on medium to low systems. On top of that, there is a lot of things still missing from the game, such as foliage effects & variety, a more diverse weather, particle effects and so on.

Knowing that we are stuck with this limiting and poor performing engine for ATS is a big shame in my eyes.

[Moving Shadow]

ATS won't have real life roads, just the same as ETS2 doesn't have real life roads. The resouces needed to do this would be absolutely huge, not to mention the time scaling when driving would probably put some people off.

[kitsumo1]

You guys realize that ETS2 is not a AAA game right? SCS is not a AAA game company and they don't claim to be. Sure you can get some AAA games for $20, so why does SCS charge $20 for theirs? Because they can. You don't like it, don't buy it. They don't care. They have charged $20 for all of their games. I know because I've bought most of them. If you've ever seen SCS games in a retail store (in the US at least) they're usually in 'budget' games section (call it bargain bin, shovelware or whatever).

The funny thing is, we didn't have this many people complaining about graphics when the graphics were crappy. During the 18WOS days, improvements came slowly (just like now) and we were satisfied with what we got. Now that the game has a few AAA features, a whole flood of people buy it because it looks pretty, then get upset when they find out that its a 13 yr old game engine. I don't hear any of the old players complaining about eye candy. You can call it complacency or low standards if you want, but SCS isn't changing for you.

You think ATS looks like a dressed up map mod for ETS2? It is. Every SCS game is just a slight upgrade from the previous one. ETS2 wasn't much of an upgrade from Scania, or Trucks & Trailers or ETS. There's not much difference from one game to another. You don't like it, don't buy it. SCS has already said what they're going to focus on in the next year or so. It's whatever Pavel says in the promotional videos. If you're expecting anything more than that, you're going to be disappointed.

[Ragequit Inc.]

It would be rather counterproductive and -intuitive, not to mention a horrible business-decision to first develop a game-engine, then NOT use it.

[BOYCOTT]

kitsumo1님이 먼저 게시:

You guys realize that ETS2 is not a AAA game right? SCS is not a AAA game company and they don't claim to be. Sure you can get some AAA games for $20, so why does SCS charge $20 for theirs? Because they can. You don't like it, don't buy it. They don't care. They have charged $20 for all of their games. I know because I've bought most of them. If you've ever seen SCS games in a retail store (in the US at least) they're usually in 'budget' games section (call it bargain bin, shovelware or whatever).

The funny thing is, we didn't have this many people complaining about graphics when the graphics were crappy. During the 18WOS days, improvements came slowly (just like now) and we were satisfied with what we got. Now that the game has a few AAA features, a whole flood of people buy it because it looks pretty, then get upset when they find out that its a 13 yr old game engine. I don't hear any of the old players complaining about eye candy. You can call it complacency or low standards if you want, but SCS isn't changing for you.

You think ATS looks like a dressed up map mod for ETS2? It is. Every SCS game is just a slight upgrade from the previous one. ETS2 wasn't much of an upgrade from Scania, or Trucks & Trailers or ETS. There's not much difference from one game to another. You don't like it, don't buy it. SCS has already said what they're going to focus on in the next year or so. It's whatever Pavel says in the promotional videos. If you're expecting anything more than that, you're going to be disappointed.

do you really think it isn't outrageous to charge so much for so little?
at least do us one solid, improve the roads, include something shiny to tempt us, i mean, we all know we could have american trucks and speed limit through a mod or something, but damn.... you show up to potluck with crappy fruitcake from 20 christmases ago, how many times before you no longer get an invitation, you see where i'm coming from?

[Moving Shadow]

Too-DAMN-Much님이 먼저 게시:

do you really think it isn't outrageous to charge so much for so little?
at least do us one solid, improve the roads, include something shiny to tempt us, i mean, we all know we could have american trucks and speed limit through a mod or something, but damn.... you show up to potluck with crappy fruitcake from 20 christmases ago, how many times before you no longer get an invitation, you see where i'm coming from?

You seem to be in the minority group that dislikes where ETS2 is going, that's not to say that your opinions don't mean anything, or shouldn't be listened to, but a games company will always cater the majority. The success of ETS2 and it's DLCs is largely what funded the ATS project, so is would seem SCS's business plan is working.

There are things all of us would like to see in the game, but most of us just take it as it is, what we can't have, we wish for, what we don't have, we use mods, and what isn't, we accept.

[kitsumo1]

Too-DAMN-Much님이 먼저 게시:

do you really think it isn't outrageous to charge so much for so little?
at least do us one solid, improve the roads, include something shiny to tempt us, i mean, we all know we could have american trucks and speed limit through a mod or something, but damn.... you show up to potluck with crappy fruitcake from 20 christmases ago, how many times before you no longer get an invitation, you see where i'm coming from?

I can see your point, but look at all the old games on Youtube. From the first (Hard Truck) through the 18WOS series. Pretty primitive? Those were all $19.99, and there were no discounts or Steam sales. Once a new version came out, the old one would drop to $9.99. We bought them because it was the best truck sim around. Go look at Rig n' Roll or Big Mutha Truckers and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I'd love for this game to get better overnight. Or I'd like a group of amateur programmers and modders to get together and make a competing game using one of the free graphics engines available. It's far fetched, but maybe it could happen. SCS has done a great job, but if there was some direct competition, they would be a little more focused.

If there were a competing opensource game, I'd love to be involved. I couldn't be a programmer, my skills are too primitive, but I could model trucks or maps. Just think how many hours people have contributed to modding ETS2 and previous games for free. I think they'd be pretty excited about a game that's actually controlled by fans and owned by no one. The only problem would be "who controls it?" One person or a group of people? Who chooses that group? How does a project like Linux still operate? I don't think Linus Torvalds has any direct control over it.

[DonAdi]

I never actually said i disliked SCS for putting them at 20 bucks. I dislike steam/origin for keeping the original price of the title FOR YEARS after release when you can get them even before release at 45-50 bucks (instead of 60) anywhere else but the large distros like steam etc.


Actually one of the major things that bothered me about ATS is i didnt notice any cracks in the roads etc. It just seems like a very simple texture.. especially for american roads :) I get that they are small but they still could do way more than just something that more or less looks like a reskin/DLC. Honestly, (and i can say this as a Scandinavian) the scandi DLC is just a ripoff. should have been free content imo.. Or at the very least be under 10 bucks. 18 bucks (2 bucks less than the base game).. thats just disgusting and one of the greediest DLC packs ive ever seen (not including what creative assembly are put through because of the sinking ship that is SEGA). I nearly slapped my friend when he told me he picked it up :3 of course i didnt buy it myself but i hang at my buddys house quite a bit sometimes and then we switch between trips :P and i can say for sure the scandinavia DLC was neeeever worth 18 bucks. I know they have to earn on it aswell but 18 bucks ? thats more like the price of a SEASON PASSS.....

[Gizmosellsbunnys]

SCS is cheap software to buy compared to FSX a2A Cessna that $50.00 a pop and weather engine another $50.00. I free mods like other people but DLC content is what moves this project along long term.

Scandinavian DLC is not ripoff actually it's cheap because it very differcult to build objects and make them look good or add to base map.

This is not game in normal sense it's simulator been getting better slowly with time. If you do not want to pay $18.00 DLC it will be lower on sale at certain times of the year or couple years later when they can sell lower as they recoup their investment outlay.

[kitsumo1]

I've got an easy answer for you on the road textures. This game is made by Europeans. You know that socialism stuff that everyone complains about here in the US? Well apparently it pays for paving roads over there. Oddly enough, just kicking some gravel into a pothole and calling it a day isn't good enough for those Euro-peeans, they go and repave the whole damn thing.
Just joking. Not directed at you, but I couldn't help making that joke. Seriously, I live in the South and our roads are awful.

As for the DLC, yeah, it was a lot now that I think about it. Especially for something that already existed for free in Promods.

[Gizmosellsbunnys]

Haha, love promods add on but perfer vanilla map as it optimized for sitting on the coach at 9pm with good European stream music or BBC newscast. Actually, they turned paved roads back to gravel in North Dakota because it cheaper maintenance cost. The russian modders give taste of what rural American roads are really like. The politicians want to build new roads as ribbon cutting ceremonies mean money from lobbyists haha.

[DonAdi]

Yes. Recycling various assets is hard , i see :) its wasn't very hard or expensive for them to make. They had ALOT of assets to re-use etc. They didn't built everything from the ground up you know :) Almost everything they could actually recycle.

kitsumo1님이 먼저 게시:

I've got an easy answer for you on the road textures. This game is made by Europeans. You know that socialism stuff that everyone complains about here in the US? Well apparently it pays for paving roads over there. Oddly enough, just kicking some gravel into a pothole and calling it a day isn't good enough for those Euro-peeans, they go and repave the whole damn thing.
Just joking. Not directed at you, but I couldn't help making that joke. Seriously, I live in the South and our roads are awful.

As for the DLC, yeah, it was a lot now that I think about it. Especially for something that already existed for free in Promods.

lol very true about how we do our roads. You actually weren't making a joke, you just don't know it yet :D if there's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ section of road here in denmark? they'll re-do the entire thing mostly. But yeah i just thought hmm, at least in hot places the tarmac should start to crack.. Also your rigs are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ huge in comparison sometimes, so also harder on the roads. I imagine all that weight and heat isnt good on a road in the long run... there just easily could be more ''america feel'' to it :)

Well.. yeah.. 18 bucks is just too much.. no matter what. i mean it wasn't like they had to remake alot of assets or anything.. it was just doing terrain, landscaping, pathing(roads) and placing object.. I havnt seen anything really NEW in it.. So it was more like a lego set. they just had to build it together, not actually manifacture it. They more than likely had everything they needed before they even started. They didn't have to model trees, street lights or anything really. ONLY thing i could think of is signs.. wich more or less is just *insert city name here*. cant actually think of any of our danish signs being in there.. a few maybe.. but even a good amount of signs wont take months to model... at all. not even close. Its probably something someone could finish in a day or two.. its not a hard 3D character to model.. its simple signs. Other than that , i really cant think of anything new.. so basically just made new landscapes.. pasted objects and boom, go pay almost what the full game costs for this fairly minor DLC.. (i mean scandinavia isnt really that large)... but yeah i guess it is what it is.

[kitsumo1]

I suppose our rigs are big. But look at our SUVs. Check out this monstrosity:
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SjmTYV2AhEg/hqdefault.jpg
http://image.motortrend.com/f/roadtests/trucks/112_0501_international_cxt/8551908+w554/112-0501-01l%2Binternational-cxt-pickup%2Bleft.jpg
http://motokiller.pl/uimages/services/motokiller/i18n/pl_PL/201401/1389619276_by_Patryk_500.jpg
Someone actually went to a dealership and bought that thing. The International CXT in case you really want to know. They sold enough of those to make a profit.

Edit: I don't know how to post pictures.

[DonAdi]

Jeeeesus dude ! thats not even an SUV at that point.. Mini truck. insane ! i want one.. like right now ! :P im pretty sure it wouldnt even be road legal here.

[BOYCOTT]

handful of things here, most of it just randomly interspersed and without a cohesive point in specific overall so.... LISTS!
1. i had been operating under the assumption i paid $50 for this on launch, i see that was wrong now and this is just barely less costly than SC 2013 as a result. i will add though, i managed to pick it up for $35, shame on me.
2. road textures, well.... maybe it's time for SCS to take a trip to see the places they're putting in the game, simple as that, i think a lot of the american fans would be happy to see them at a convention or something as well if it can be timed right.
3. hot pavement, well... you really lost me here to be honest, however i can say, that blacktop on the other hand will certainly succumb to very hot days, on extremely hot days it can become less of a road and more of.... tar (even sticking to your shoes noticably), that's what it's made of (to some degree) anyway.
4. DLC pricing? well... gonna just lump this in with the set pieces thing above and yeah, i'll just remind us all that when shooter game developers do this it's a huge catastrophe and suddenly everyone cares, at least make some new assets, it shows a poor work ethic to only reuse them.
honestly, neither of the DLC were worth the price, thankfully i hardly paid full price for the second one.
5. and finally large SUVs, ahh... you've come to the right place, you can buy this monstrosity, provided you can afford one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDoRmT0iRic

i'm not aware of any challengers to that SUV.

[kitsumo1]

Too-DAMN-Much,

1. I was probably wrong about the price of ETS2. I know all of the 18 Wheels of Steel games were about $20 when they first came out, but I guess they raised the price with the ETS series.

2. That would have been out of the question years ago when they were a struggling budget game company, but I think the ETS series brought in a lot of new casual players and lots of money. They may have money to do things like that now.

3. I think what he's talking about is pavement that has been patched and repaired. If you've ever driven through the southern US, you'll see patches where they've filled in potholes and black lines where they've painted tar over the cracks in the roads. To make the game more accurate, they can make roughly 1 out of every 10 bridges structurally deficient (from the US govt's own website https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/bridge/nbi/no10/defbr14.cfm ). That should add some excitement to the game.

4. Now that I've had some time to think it over, that is a lot to pay for DLC. Especially since I don't even use the High Power Cargo one (I like Jazzycat's trailer packs better).

And that is one big a$$ truck.

I guess the real question is; Since SCS has made some AAA money off their budget game are they going to keep being a budget company or try to run with the big boys and make a big budget game?