What is "Air Brakes Simulation"?

[rolypoly]

There's a checkbox in Gameplay options that says "Air Brake Simulation". What does that do?

[BushiNeko]

It makes your truck act more like real air brakes do. See, air brakes of course use air.. they also stop differently. In RL overuse causes a zero ability to brake.. or you can get an air lock up on the piston.. meaning your brakes all lock and that is a problem.. big loads dont respond well to locked brakes outside of pure straight lines.. ( different thread )

So basically.. simulate real braking with air.. or simulate friction braking.
Ive never ran out of air in game.. nor had a lock up.. but I guess you can...

[Skippy The Magnificent]

Errrr, actually, air brakes work via air pressure, meaning the air pressure holds the breaks open, or released. If you excessively use the breaks (like pumping them for example), you will run the pressure down, causing the breaks to lock up, and you will be unable to move until the air pressure builds back up.

[BushiNeko]

Originally posted by mrdanlb:

Errrr, actually, air brakes work via air pressure, meaning the air pressure holds the breaks open, or released. If you excessively use the breaks (like pumping them for example), you will run the pressure down, causing the breaks to lock up, and you will be unable to move until the air pressure builds back up.

ah.. yeah. Thanks.. I did not put that out very clearly did I?? lol.. In fact.. I point blank did write zero breaking.. oops. Well.. at least you knew what I meant.
Read what I mean not what I type damnit!!! lol.
But yeah.. you will see a big difference in your breaking between the types.
and on that note.. friction braking is not really the term either.. its all based on pressure applied via pads / drums etc..
but the difference is how its applied and force of application to keep it simple.

[Skippy The Magnificent]

The only real difference between air brakes and standard (hydraulic, like your typical car) is if their is a failure in hydraulic brakes, you simply can not brake, where if there is a failure in air breaks, the brakes wont release, meaning you can't move.

Other then that, there is NO difference between the two.

EDIT: lol, just noticed Jeorg's edit. Correct. They basicly act/work the same, the only difference is when there is a failure between the two

[BushiNeko]

Originally posted by mrdanlb:

The only real difference between air brakes and standard (hydraulic, like your typical car) is if their is a failure in hydraulic brakes, you simply can not brake, where if there is a failure in air breaks, the brakes wont release, meaning you can't move.

Other then that, there is NO difference between the two.

sure is in my experience.. or at least my prejudice I should say.
but if you get into the truly technical.. any brake designed for a load level is going to work out the same.
The honest.. and to keep it out there reason for air brakes really gets down to nothing but a few little things..or big depending on viewpoint.
1. The supply of air is unlimited vs fluid.. and the loss of some air pressue in a leak does not cause issues unless you let it get waaay out of control.
2. They are easier to maintain, IE no fluid to worry about with coupling decoupling.. and you dont have to worry about air in your fluid lines.. etc. air lines enable easy coupling and charging / discharging of brake pressures.. no need to worry over fluids etc.

So for trains and trucks it just a matter of ease for hook ups and having a force available for the braking. You can completly have an empty truck trailer or train car and fill 'er up without any need for tanks of fluid involved. A truck and a train have the same idea.. engine or truck pushes air to the whole and fills the tanks.. then you can dump em when you dont need em. No fuss, no muss.

[Skippy The Magnificent]

Granted, they do make hookups to trailers easier, but there are downsides also.

1. Brake freeze-ups. happens in colder climates. nothing sucks worse then crawling under a trailer with a sledge hammer, in the snow, -10f in the wind, beating on the drums getting the trailer breaks to release. This doesn't happen alot, but does happen, mainly when a trailer is parked/unhitched and there is moisture in the drums.

2. Moisture in the air lines. This really, really, really sucks. Basicly, ice forms in the air lines, meaning air can not pass to the brakes, thus, you are not moving. You *might* get lucky by putting line de-icer in through the glad hands and hope it reaches where the ice is at, but more then likely, your stuck having to get it hauled into a shop to be completely thawed out. Again, this is a very rare issue if the truck is properly maintained and line deicer is used before the temps get below freezing as a preventive measure.

3. Blown brake canister. Basicly, their is an "air piston", called a brake canister, that operates the brakes. These can blow out, meaning the brakes wont release. You can use a bolt to manually open them back up, but this basicly disables the break at that wheel, and if you get caught with this at a DOT inspection....yea....they frown on that.

4. Air leaks. Yes, a minor one is no big deal as long as the compressor can keep up, but an air leak never stays minor for long. Just like a brake fluid leak, an air leak MUST be fixed as soon as its noticed. I will agree tho that at least with a minor air leak, you don't need to constantly stop and add air to keep the brakes working, lol.

In short, the only difference between air brakes and hydraulic brakes is how they work, plain and simple.

Yes, yes, I know, splitting hairs in a thread for a question that was answered already, i'm sorry.

[room217au]

Air brakes require more maintenance than hydraulic systems in that there is also an air compressor (mounted to the engine) which can leak oil into the airlines. In addition to that when air is compressed it heats up. When applying the maxi brakes overnight when the truck is parked the air cools down somewhat. When the truck rolls again the next day the air heats up again when the compressor starts working and so on. This creates condensation on the inside of the air tanks and the liquid is 'caught' in the waste tank. The waste tank (and indeed the other air tanks) should be blown (get your mind outa the gutter) every day after work. If the condensation mixes with any oil from the compressor it produces an ugly black sludge and if that sludge makes its way far enough along the airlines to the foot valve, the day will come when you press your foot down and the next thing that happens is you wake up in hospital.
The other difference with air and hydraulic brakes is 'wet' brakes (hydraulic) work by how hard you press the pedal whereas air brakes work by how far you push the pedal.
I don't know about modern trucks but the trucks I've always driven have the air-brake systems split, or 'triangulated'. This means the 'front' and 'rear' guages are actually left and right. One tank operates left steer and both left and right rear. The other tank operates right steer and both left and rear. This is a safety feature so that if one tank fails, you still have brake pressure - albeit limited - to front and rear wheels.

[rolypoly]

Oh wow, that's a lot of very interesting info I never knew about :)
But how much of that is simulated in the game?

[BushiNeko]

Nah, not at all really. Two guys discussing the reality of it...besides.. the core question was answered.. it simulates air. we just took it further.. and the only reason that happened was I typed incorrectly. So it is good also that you caught it.
Yeah.. there are problems with any system.. but I still carry my prejudice over the two.. but that is from dealing with them.. but the big bottem line for me is::::::
Ease.. once you get used to air.. its the easiest thing in the world. Again, no muss or fuss.. Never once had an air issue.. and I pulled a lot of loads up and down the hills here in ol' WV.
Never had to worry over any freeze either.. but never had a truly cold weather drive like up north etc.. Important to blow that line out to.. dont let that water build up.. that needs to happen often.

lol you added this while I was typing that ^^^^^

Originally posted by room217au:

Air brakes require more maintenance than hydraulic systems in that there is also an air compressor (mounted to the engine) which can leak oil into the airlines. In addition to that when air is compressed it heats up. When applying the maxi brakes overnight when the truck is parked the air cools down somewhat. When the truck rolls again the next day the air heats up again when the compressor starts working and so on. This creates condensation on the inside of the air tanks and the liquid is 'caught' in the waste tank. The waste tank (and indeed the other air tanks) should be blown (get your mind outa the gutter) every day after work. If the condensation mixes with any oil from the compressor it produces an ugly black sludge and if that sludge makes its way far enough along the airlines to the foot valve, the day will come when you press your foot down and the next thing that happens is you wake up in hospital.
The other difference with air and hydraulic brakes is 'wet' brakes (hydraulic) work by how hard you press the pedal whereas air brakes work by how far you push the pedal.
I don't know about modern trucks but the trucks I've always driven have the air-brake systems split, or 'triangulated'. This means the 'front' and 'rear' guages are actually left and right. One tank operates left steer and both left and right rear. The other tank operates right steer and both left and rear. This is a safety feature so that if one tank fails, you still have brake pressure - albeit limited - to front and rear wheels.

well.. for those of us that understand it all.. we could go into a few hundred pages on it... and then have a mechanic come in and add more..
hehe..

[room217au]

Not a lot. The only 'simulation' part is that you can run out of air.
Brake fade, bias adjustment, just to name a couple of things, are not there. One thing to bear in mind is that this game is mainly played by people who have no interest in trucks other than bring a trucker vicariously.
And speaking of air loss, there's no annoying buzzer when you do. That's a relief.

[BushiNeko]

Originally posted by asdg:

Oh wow, that's a lot of very interesting info I never knew about :)
But how much of that is simulated in the game?

near as I can tell.. Air pressure. Do you have it or not.. lol. But look at all you learned!!!!

[Skippy The Magnificent]

Not much has changed (afaik at least) except that most modern trucks have an "air dryer" and filters on them to help prevent moisture buildup, but yes, the air tanks should be drained or blown daily reguardless. I always did my tanks in the morning and again in the eve. when I was OTR, but these days I just do regional/home every night, and because of this, I have slacked off ALOT on keeping up with the changes.

Yes, I was keeping it simple/dumbed down on the fact that a brake is a brake, etc, etc...but you are right, how they are implimented/work between the 2 is VASTLY different, and as far as I am concerned, air brakes are far superior to wet brakes. Only reason why they are not on cars is due to the weight/bulky-ness of them.

EDIT: Wow, I need to type faster. Yes, per the game, the only change is you run out of air is basicly it.

[BushiNeko]

Originally posted by mrdanlb:

Not much has changed (afaik at least) except that most modern trucks have an "air dryer" and filters on them to help prevent moisture buildup, but yes, the air tanks should be drained or blown daily reguardless. I always did my tanks in the morning and again in the eve. when I was OTR, but these days I just do regional/home every night, and because of this, I have slacked off ALOT on keeping up with the changes.

Yes, I was keeping it simple/dumbed down on the fact that a brake is a brake, etc, etc...but you are right, how they are implimented/work between the 2 is VASTLY different, and as far as I am concerned, air brakes are far superior to wet brakes. Only reason why they are not on cars is due to the weight/bulky-ness of them.

lol. asdq... still wanna be a trucker??
Despite our back and forth about it all.. then ol room217au adding in.. this is pretty dumbed down stuff that pulling a load you need to know.. but most of it is like a lot of things.. you learn .. then only use the real important parts.. like.. watch air.. maintain air.. call mechanic. hehe.

but by far.. the other guys win the tech accuracy award.. I am just an old hillbilly. got air or not..

[Skippy The Magnificent]

Originally posted by Jeorg Ersteman:

but most of it is like a lot of things.. you learn .. then only use the real important parts.. like.. watch air.. maintain air.. call mechanic. hehe.

This. This is words of wisdom right here. When I was in training once apon a time ago, the instructor I was with said something that has stuck with me to this day, and I will NEVER forget it.

"The day I start thinking I know everything there is to truck driving is the day I will stop driving truck."

[BushiNeko]

Originally posted by mrdanlb:

Originally posted by Jeorg Ersteman:

but most of it is like a lot of things.. you learn .. then only use the real important parts.. like.. watch air.. maintain air.. call mechanic. hehe.

This. This is words of wisdom right here. When I was in training once apon a time ago, the instructor I was with said something that has stuck with me to this day, and I will NEVER forget it.

"The day I start thinking I know everything there is to truck driving is the day I will stop driving truck."

:-/ really.. even to this day.. I recall our instructor saying just about the same.. his words were.. "Had I known all I would have to know.. and learn to think about and understand without thinking about it.. I would have just become an Engineer.." I used that on my trainee's myself.
He also had these really wise words..
"If its not working right.. dont f** with it.. your the driver.. and you will just f** it up more.. let the mechanic do it right." More than a few guys I know never learned that one.