Unlicenced trademark use in mods

[Martial.Lore]

SCS has gone to great lengths to obtain licences for the use of branded trucks in its games. We all like that. Many modders have hitherto addressed the dearth of branded freight, or cabin items, etc. in the game by creating mods featuring trademarks, which we like. These have been available from other platforms, which some of us didn't like.

I am all for the same mods being made avaialble in the Steam Workshop. It's great. I like it. Makes my life easier, downloading and installing them.

However, the unlicenced use of trademarks by modders is one thing (they don't directly profit from said use, although that in itself has not necessarily been a barrier to successful litigation against artistic use in the past (Disney successfully sued an artist in New Zealand who had decorated a drab school bus stop with Disney characters--it was ordered to be painted over); some corporations will go to ridiculous lengths to protect their trademarks--a few readers may recall that litigation was brought against a Scottish sandwich shop owner for use of "McMunchies" because McDonalds has trademarked "Mc").

But the ready availability of mods featuring unlicenced trademark use on the very platform (Steam/Steam Workshop) from which Valve and SCS earn a profit is another thing and, to my mind (as a big fan of SCS and Eurotruck) this is cause for concern.

It could be argued that the use of trademarked items in free game mods (partly due to the game-extending nature of mods themselves) makes a game more attractive to potential consumers (buyers of the game), thereby creating a situation in which Valve and SCS are profiting from said use.

Given that SCS has been very careful about obtaining licences for vehicles in the game, it would be a shame if litigation were brought against them by multiple corporations due to unlicenced trademark use in mods.

I'm not taking a stand here (actually, I can say that mods featuring trademarked freight or cabin items do make the game more attractive to me--I've got a Wally bobblehead on my virtual truck's dashboard right now); I'm just pointing out a vulnerability that I think needs to be addressed by Valve and SCS. Because at some point, someone who is not me is going to notice and say "What?"

(Now I'm off to download a real freight mod from the Workshop.)

[racdavies]

This situation has crossed my mind many times and we the end users are just as responsible for using Unlicensed software/products in the form of say...texture maps on trailer mods wether it be for personal use and more so for public broadcast on the likes of youtube or twitch.

The use of SiSL's Mega Pack from the workshop could give Scs a lot more than they bargained for and they are blindly allowing the use of such content, it is highly unlikely that the creator obtained a licence for any of the 400+ objects in the mod, the use of the ipad look alike running windows or the star wars figures and also the despicable me content...... the next few months could be interesting.

[Jade Falcon]

I think that while it is certainly true that some companies have been known to take issue with non-profit making mods displaying their logos the key point is that SCS negotiate their various licences and cannot be held responsible for the content that users create to use in their game and therefore cannot be held accountable. I'm sure there is some specific legal jargon that relates to this.

I do agree with your point that the use of real world company identities certainly does make the product more attrractive but who is really actually profitting here? It seems that the direct benefactor is the companies who are indirectly receiving free advertising from these user created mods. I could see a company taking issue if they felt that their logos were being used in an inappropriate manner or if someone was suggesting that the game was officially endorsed by them.

As an example I recently noticed a DHL truck had been pulled over by cops while driving through Poland (was using ProMod). I thought that was amusing considering I have found them a very reliable and speedy serice (use them often in my job) but if someone from the company saw that you would like to hope they saw the funny side too and didn't get their knickers in a twist thinking that the game was somehow suggesting that DHL trucks don't deliver on time because they are pulled over often. ;)

Lets face it there are tons of user created mods out there for various games. Xcom 2 has Star Wars and Halo gear and to be honest it probably isn't worth the companies time to make a big deal about it as long as no serious profit is being made. Of course I do remember a particular Halo mod for C&C Conquer Generals getting shut down because at the time it would have rivalled the soon to be released Halo Wars (I think that was the game). So yes it certainly does happen but there are usually reasons for it.

You would hope that these companies adopt a certain amount of common sense and realise the benefit the mods bring them and that is probably why it continues relatively unchallenged. I recently watched a YouTube video by Squirrel and he mentioned that when these corporate logos are used in movies the companies bend over backwards to get their name out there but when it goes to games they are nowhere near as forthcoming and if a game company want to get these companies to support them it usually is a long drawn out process that typically ends in a "No".

The suggestion was also made that a lot of these established companies simply don't see the benefits of games as an effective advertising medium so are reluctant to support them which is definitely a shame because I personally think they add far more realism to certain games when they are included.

Right I'm going back to watching the Pepsi truck speeding down the autobahn again. ;)

[Martial.Lore]

Originally posted by racdavies:

This situation has crossed my mind many times and we the end users are just as responsible for using Unlicensed software/products in the form of say...texture maps on trailer mods wether it be for personal use and more so for public broadcast on the likes of youtube or twitch.

The use of SiSL's Mega Pack from the workshop could give Scs a lot more than they bargained for, it is highly unlikely that the creator obtained a licence for any of the 400+ objects in the mod, the use of the ipad look alike running windows or the star wars figures and also the despicable me content.

I had only previously been a Workshop mod user for Civilization V, which was much less problematic, at the time I played that game. I have become a big fan of the Misery mod for S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripyat: the modders made sure that there was no trademarked content in the in-game stores, and even made sure the music in the bases followed fair use rules by only playing clips.

Now as an XCOM 2 fan, I became concerned by so many modders ripping audio files from other games and from movies to provide voice pack mods--that's when the issue grabbed my attention. I think it's a shame that corporations are so protective of their trademarks in environments in which they don't compete (Coca Cola The Game anyone, anyone?) but it's the world we live in.

I'm of the opinion that mods like SiSL's greater improve the feel of the game, and would love to pass by branded freight loads in the game. It's free advertising for Coke, right? But they won't see it that way, in the long term, not when they can obtain guaranteed return on their trademark through licencing and then get the in-game advertising (having been paid for the privilege).

It's not the mods or the modders actions themselves that matters but the availability of them on a site of commerce for Valve and, in this instance, SCS. We all know how Valve feels about not-free Source or Half Life mods in the Steam store, don't we?

[Martial.Lore]

Originally posted by Jade Falcon:

You would hope that these companies adopt a certain amount of common sense and realise the benefit the mods bring them and that is probably why it continues relatively unchallenged. I recently watched a YouTube video by Squirrel and he mentioned that when these corporate logos are used in movies the companies bend over backwards to get their name out there but when it goes to games they are nowhere near as forthcoming and if a game company want to get these companies to support them it usually is a long drawn out process that typically ends in a "No".

The suggestion was also made that a lot of these established companies simply don't see the benefits of games as an effective advertising medium so are reluctant to support them which is definitely a shame because I personally think they add far more realism to certain games when they are included.

That's a very good point and I completely agree. Games and their developers don't get the respect they deserve.

Another question is whether there is qualitative a difference between a modder putting a Coca Cola logo on a trailer and putting a Fallout 4 helmet on a dashboard, or even a difference between putting a Coke logo on a trailer and a Coke can on the dashboard. I would suggest that the Fallout 4 helmet certainly is different but I would have to go away and think hard about exactly why I feel that way.

[SiSL]

Can you play Fallout with this helmet in this mod? ;) Then it is very same thing...

Since main concern of this very topic is based on my mod, oh well, we are accepting the fact we are no where affiliated with game company or Valve itself and entirely responsible for our content.

Let the companies concerned have their advertisement in the game have at me if they want to get their stuff removed, I can easily remove their advertisement and let the competitors have it ;)

Considering there is no profit in this other than people enjoying their ride giving posting a thank you note, that would lead to question of What are mods for... Beyond that if there was real concern, Valve could clean Gary's mod Workshop first ;)

[Martial.Lore]

Originally posted by SiSL:

Since main concern of this very topic is based on my mod, oh well, we are accepting the fact we are no where affiliated with game company or Valve itself and entirely responsible for our content.

Let the companies concerned have their advertisement in the game have at me if they want to get their stuff removed, I can easily remove their advertisement and let the competitors have it ;)

Considering there is no profit in this other than people enjoying their ride giving posting a thank you note, that would lead to question of What are mods for... Beyond that if there was real concern, Valve could clean Gary's mod Workshop first ;)

Hey SiSL! I love your mod. I think it's great and am very grateful to you for making it available to us through the Steam Workshop. And please don't feel that this is in any way any kind of attack on you--I think it's a question that is only going to grow in import as the tools for modding become ever more widely used, in time, and it's something that I think the industry as a whole needs to address.

Posting this topic was really an attempt to get a response from SCS and if possible Valve, given that it's the latter's platform that is making your content available.

[SiSL]

As I said, if this was a real concern for Valve, Gary's mod (which is Valve's own property for long time) and entire workshop should be out of existance now... Same goes for entire GTA mods...

Personally I don't like Fallout yet, helmet was there on a player request ;) I can easily remove everything or change brands on it, but then nobody will feel it like real...

[Martial.Lore]

Originally posted by SiSL:

Can you play Fallout with this helmet in this mod? ;) Then it is very same thing...

There is a brouhaha going on right now about a Native American woman's uncredited voice in the recent Oscar-winning movie, Revenant, which is why I asked that question. It's a similar issue, basically, I think.

[SiSL]

Oscars are not non-profit thing, they gain millions of dollars for broadcasting rights, beside that's USA, you can sue about anything... Remember Apple sued Samsung over with having "rounded corner rectangle screen" patent.

On the other hand as I said, companies who does not like to be seen freely on a video game that people spends hours and hours, I can easily remove their ads.

[Martial.Lore]

Originally posted by SiSL:

Oscars are not non-profit thing, beside that's USA, you can sue about anything... Remember Apple sued Samsung over having "rounded corner rectangle screen" patent.

I know right! It's a crazy litigious world! It could be argued that your work is uncredited free advertising to Coca Cola, and SCS's allowance of your mod in the game is unpaid product placement. It works both ways....

[racdavies]

Originally posted by SiSL:

Can you play Fallout with this helmet in this mod? ;) Then it is very same thing...

Since main concern of this very topic is based on my mod, oh well, we are accepting the fact we are no where affiliated with game company or Valve itself and entirely responsible for our content.

Let the companies concerned have their advertisement in the game have at me if they want to get their stuff removed, I can easily remove their advertisement and let the competitors have it ;)

Considering there is no profit in this other than people enjoying their ride giving posting a thank you note, that would lead to question of What are mods for... Beyond that if there was real concern, Valve could clean Gary's mod Workshop first ;)

Hi SiSl, dont get me wrong...i used your mod merely as an example and im looking forward to trying it out when the full patch is released....keep up the good work and i hope licencing doesnt become an issue.

[Martial.Lore]

Originally posted by racdavies:

Hi SiSl, dont get me wrong...i used your mod merely as an example and im looking forward to trying it out when the full patch is released....keep up the good work and i hope licencing doesnt become an issue.

Yeah, SiSL...don't you dare remove my Wally bobblehead from my dash until you get sued or ordered by Valve to take it down. We all want to use you as an example! LOL!

Correction: my Wally bobblehead = your Wally bobblehead (credit where credit is due). (Erm... Disney's Wally bobblehead, too???

[SiSL]

Hey, I don't have a wally bobblehead , what is that?

[Martial.Lore]

Originally posted by SiSL:

Hey, I don't have a wally bobblehead , what is that?

From the Pixar/Disney movie WALL-E. It's a WALL-E bobblehead--my mistake.

[SiSL]

Oh, well, when you say wally I think about the guy with red-white stripes shirt with a beanie