Insertion of the new Iveco S-Way

[Alessandro]

Good afternoon, with this discussion I would like to invite us community, towards SCS, to the inclusion of the new Iveco S-Way model as it is one of the most obsolete vehicles in the game ...

[MirkoC407]

Usual answer: it will come when Iveco licenses it, SCS builds it and Iveco approves the result. Nothing we can do as players here. With 7 manufacturers and personal relations to all of them, SCS are probably well aware which trucks are on sale outside their office walls.

[🐺Blue Wolf]

Not sure how they are nowadays, but going by what I read years ago, Iveco is terrible to work with, so if that is still the case don't count on any new/updated Ivecos unless you mod them in.

[Wolfgang]

What are you expecting to gain from this OP? Stuff like that needs licencing and that takes time. And until SCS states anything official on the matter consider it to be under NDA.

[fgaliegue]

Iveco is not the only bad apple in SCS' stable really.

For instance, Mercedes was the first to introduce mirror cams as an option to their truck; do we see them even as an option in the standard game? No. Newer MANs and DAFs do have them, so what gives?

In a similar fashion, when it comes to the two most coveted brands out there, let's face it -- Volvo and Scania --, they have not been updated for a while. I don't care much about Scania so I'll just talk Volvo here: the FH5 is now more than 4 years old and it still is not in the game; as a result, you don't get to experience their TC engines here and in fact, neither do you in the Renaults which also have them now (at least in their 440 and 480 guise).

So, I'll just point out to one mod out there which has tackled the problem so that it not be a problem anymore: 2022 Volvo FH by Sanax. It's available on Steam, use it. It's demanding, so be sure to check mod compatibility (a discord channel is there to support you should the need arise). Then you'll actually drive a truck which you can buy right now. On the expensive end (this is Volvo after all), but you can.

I am not sure what we, as casual players of the game, can do to force the hand of manufacturers first, and SCS second, to keep trucks up to date with current offerings. Each of the parties have their own shenanigans to deal with and of course, most of these shenanigans we cannot hear about because they are trade secrets... Most of the time for stupid reasons (from our point of view) but trade secrets nonetheless.

[Briannospam]

I often wonder: Why is there always this demand to get more truck models for the game?
- and in most cases preferably the newest, sometimes almost before these models have come out on the official IRL market, and once in a while old discontinued models are also wanted.
Personally, I think there are enough models to choose from.

Aside from the new optical mirrors, I can't see much of a difference between driving one of the oldest models in the game, and one of the newest models...
I mean: Driving characteristics such as steering and brakes are the same, regardless of which truck you choose.
The only differences I seem to notice are the traction depending on which engine and transmission I have chosen, and here there is a wide selection for all models in all brands

And well, yes....irl, it's actually rare that I see the latest truck models out on the roads, most here are at least 2-3 years old.

[fgaliegue]

Originally posted by Briannospam:

[...]
Aside from the new optical mirrors, I can't see much of a difference between driving one of the oldest models in the game, and one of the newest models...

Fuel consumption. It has made quite some progress in the last 4-5 years.

One thing that enables the rather unbelievable consumption figures we see nowadays on road tests by specialised publications is predictive gearbox algorithms, but not sure this will be in the game anytime soon. The best you can do about it is do that yourself (which means using a sequential gearbox). The other is of course progress in engine designs. Volvo's TC is probably the most salient example of the latter.

I'd rather they put this R&D money in electric powertrains and infrastructure myself, but there is no denying that the last 4-5 years were fantastic in terms of energy usage improvements.

And by the way, predictive algorithms were also pioneered by Mercedes!

[Briannospam]

Originally posted by fgaliegue:

Originally posted by Briannospam:

[...]
Aside from the new optical mirrors, I can't see much of a difference between driving one of the oldest models in the game, and one of the newest models...

I'd rather they put this R&D money in electric powertrains and infrastructure myself, but there is no denying that the last 4-5 years were fantastic in terms of energy usage improvements.

In the game, fuel consumption has virtually no meaning, at least I have no significant expenses on fuel, compared to my income. :)

If I could decide, regarding SCS's work on improvements and additions to the game, I prefer to see SCS primarily spend most of their resources on upgrading the old maps, and adding new maps... in that order.

[fgaliegue]

Originally posted by Briannospam:

In the game, fuel consumption has virtually no meaning, at least I have no significant expenses on fuel, compared to my income. :)

Well, that's fine, I guess, but if you want immersion, you know that truck drivers care a great deal about mileage. I'm no truck driver but I seek immersion, hence mileage is very important to me.

And the only in game trucks which are really up to modern standards when it comes to mileage so far are the two "recent" ones: the 2021 DAFs and the newer MANs. That's a pity.

[Briannospam]

Originally posted by fgaliegue:

Originally posted by Briannospam:

In the game, fuel consumption has virtually no meaning, at least I have no significant expenses on fuel, compared to my income. :)

Well, that's fine, I guess, but if you want immersion, you know that truck drivers care a great deal about mileage.

I think you are wrong there.

I am also not an irl truck driver, but still I think that the transport companies are most interested in the financial aspect of purchasing new trucks in this way:

Do we need an extra truck?
If so: Buy the most suitable brand new one.

If the company does not need an extra truck: Is there one or more of our old trucks that need replacement because it is more profitable to replace it rather than continue to pay to maintain the old truck?
If so, replace the old truck with the most suitable brand new one.

With regard to fuel economy, a truck must drive many kilometers before the savings on fuel have earned the cost of replacing an old truck, and this also applies to passenger cars.

[Alessandro]

Originally posted by Briannospam:

I often wonder: Why is there always this demand to get more truck models for the game?
- and in most cases preferably the newest, sometimes almost before these models have come out on the official IRL market, and once in a while old discontinued models are also wanted.
Personally, I think there are enough models to choose from.

Aside from the new optical mirrors, I can't see much of a difference between driving one of the oldest models in the game, and one of the newest models...
I mean: Driving characteristics such as steering and brakes are the same, regardless of which truck you choose.
The only differences I seem to notice are the traction depending on which engine and transmission I have chosen, and here there is a wide selection for all models in all brands

And well, yes....irl, it's actually rare that I see the latest truck models out on the roads, most here are at least 2-3 years old.

Surely you do not feel the absolute necessity of having new models...
This game cares about the transport on rubber and obvious that the new models, above all with the means taken less in consideration come inserted.

[fgaliegue]

Originally posted by Briannospam:

Originally posted by fgaliegue:

Well, that's fine, I guess, but if you want immersion, you know that truck drivers care a great deal about mileage.

I think you are wrong there.

I am also not an irl truck driver, but still I think that the transport companies are most interested in the financial aspect of purchasing new trucks in this way:

Do we need an extra truck?
If so: Buy the most suitable brand new one.

If the company does not need an extra truck: Is there one or more of our old trucks that need replacement because it is more profitable to replace it rather than continue to pay to maintain the old truck?
If so, replace the old truck with the most suitable brand new one.

With regard to fuel economy, a truck must drive many kilometers before the savings on fuel have earned the cost of replacing an old truck, and this also applies to passenger cars.

If you reason like that, needless to say, you have it coming, for whatever definition of "it".

For example: in the UK, there exist "low emission zones", and here "emissions" does not stand for CO2 but pollutants such as NOx in particular; no truck can go in there unless they comply with Euro 6.

Furthermore, fuel prices are very volatile, and the only way they can go is up. Therefore, the less your truck consumes the better.

Why do you think truck manufacturers strive for less energy usage? They know all this. And drivers know that too.

And there is another factor which you fail to consider: driver shortage. Which company do you think is gonna grab a new driver: the one which proposes to drive a new FH5 500TC or a 5 year old, 580hp V8 Scania? Were I in the market for such a job, I'd go for the former without a second thought.

[Wolfgang]

Originally posted by fgaliegue:

Originally posted by Briannospam:

I think you are wrong there.

I am also not an irl truck driver, but still I think that the transport companies are most interested in the financial aspect of purchasing new trucks in this way:

Do we need an extra truck?
If so: Buy the most suitable brand new one.

If the company does not need an extra truck: Is there one or more of our old trucks that need replacement because it is more profitable to replace it rather than continue to pay to maintain the old truck?
If so, replace the old truck with the most suitable brand new one.

With regard to fuel economy, a truck must drive many kilometers before the savings on fuel have earned the cost of replacing an old truck, and this also applies to passenger cars.

If you reason like that, needless to say, you have it coming, for whatever definition of "it".

For example: in the UK, there exist "low emission zones", and here "emissions" does not stand for CO2 but pollutants such as NOx in particular; no truck can go in there unless they comply with Euro 6.

Furthermore, fuel prices are very volatile, and the only way they can go is up. Therefore, the less your truck consumes the better.

Why do you think truck manufacturers strive for less energy usage? They know all this. And drivers know that too.

And there is another factor which you fail to consider: driver shortage. Which company do you think is gonna grab a new driver: the one which proposes to drive a new FH5 500TC or a 5 year old, 580hp V8 Scania? Were I in the market for such a job, I'd go for the former without a second thought.

Pretty much all trucks in the game (except for the oldest ones) are either compatible with Euro 6 (Scania Steamline have both Euro 5 and Euro 6 IIRC and that truck is from 2013) or only have Euro 6 in them. So you can have 10 year old trucks that are allowed into the low emission zones. Additionally trucks have DEF fluid tanks that further reduce emissions.

As for fuel efficiency: There is actually not much that can be done here other than squeezing about 1% better fuel economy out of it. When you use ICEs then most of the energy will be released as heat that is just dumped out with the cooler. The rest is used for motion.

[LoneOne]

Originally posted by Briannospam:

I often wonder: Why is there always this demand to get more truck models for the game?
- and in most cases preferably the newest, sometimes almost before these models have come out on the official IRL market, and once in a while old discontinued models are also wanted.
Personally, I think there are enough models to choose from.

Aside from the new optical mirrors, I can't see much of a difference between driving one of the oldest models in the game, and one of the newest models...
I mean: Driving characteristics such as steering and brakes are the same, regardless of which truck you choose.
The only differences I seem to notice are the traction depending on which engine and transmission I have chosen, and here there is a wide selection for all models in all brands

And well, yes....irl, it's actually rare that I see the latest truck models out on the roads, most here are at least 2-3 years old.

Personally, I like to rotate through my trucks every 3-5 deliveries; there comes a time when you get pretty familiar with most roads, routes and cargo / freight so using a truck with a different exterior & interior (and often, sound) is a welcome change for me :)

[fgaliegue]

Originally posted by Wolfgang:

[...]
As for fuel efficiency: There is actually not much that can be done here other than squeezing about 1% better fuel economy out of it. When you use ICEs then most of the energy will be released as heat that is just dumped out with the cooler. The rest is used for motion.

Oh no, there is much more than meets the eye.

Do the calculation yourself: the amount of power you need to sustain a 40ton truck at 90kph on a flat road, given standard tyres, is only around 100 kW. That's 136 metric hp.

An ICE engine is wasteful, sure, but you can make it much less wasteful in such situations, and that starts with improving its efficiency at partial loads.

If you look carefully at efficiency diagrams, you will realise that at such partial loads, most engines are pretty wasteful... And anything you can do to help in that regard is beneficial. Again, the TC mechanism (which is not new at all by the way) is a very good way of, if not improving efficiency, at least minimising waste heat to a degree which, while not formidable on paper, is nevertheless very attractive.

I will also mention this: a French publication, France Routes, tests all the trucks, with a total weight of 40 tons, at 85 kph max speed, on a route which has you go over two rather steep mountain passes... It is only since around a year ago that all trucks they have tested on this route are able to achieve less than 30l/100 km. Given the profile of the route, this is quite astonishing, and in game, only the DAF can pretend to that. MAN, for instance, has introduced a newer version of its ex 510hp engine (now 520) which can do that, the in game version could not at the time (it did 33.4 on that route, the newer did 28.7).

[Briannospam]

Originally posted by fgaliegue:

Originally posted by Briannospam:

I think you are wrong there.

I am also not an irl truck driver, but still I think that the transport companies are most interested in the financial aspect of purchasing new trucks in this way:
<snip>
With regard to fuel economy, a truck must drive many kilometers before the savings on fuel have earned the cost of replacing an old truck, and this also applies to passenger cars.

Furthermore, fuel prices are very volatile, and the only way they can go is up. Therefore, the less your truck consumes the better.

Why do you think truck manufacturers strive for less energy usage? They know all this. And drivers know that too.

Ok, so let me tell you some calculations from my irl life:
In 2017 I replaced my 10 year old Skoda Fabia with a brand new Suzuki Ignis (not a hybrid model)
With my driving style and driving needs, I normally had a fuel consumption of approx. 16-17 km per liter of gasoline.
In the Ignis, I normally have a fuel consumption of approx. 19 km per liter of gasoline.
The above calculations are according to my own driving account, not according to what the factories promise!

Now my Ignis has driven 34,000 km, which means that I must have used approx. 1780 liters of gasoline, which over the years has cost at least DKK 13 per litre.
If I had instead kept the old Fabia, I would have used 2125 liters for the same driving pattern.
By replacing the old car, in 6 years and after 34,000 km I have saved approx. 330 liters of gasoline, which in today's danish gasoline prices corresponds to 330*14.69=4935.84 Danish kroner, i.e. almost 5000 danish kroner.
So no, it was definitely not the fuel consumption that had any significant importance when I replaced my old car.