Driver Limit and Business Aspect

[Decrifix]

First, I know there are a lot of threads to do with the driver limit, but I need to express my opinion on it.

I understand that a lot of people have a problem with/don't get why you would want more than the limit number of drivers, but, SCS Software please either increase the driver limit and use the fan meetups and other events you are attending as a way of collecting photos for extra drivers or find a way to make it easy for players to increase the number themselves or just remove photos and have names, skillsets and pay. And before anyone says it, yes, I know they increase the number before major map updates but it simply isn't enough.

As an explanation for this request I would like to respond to the people who say "Why do you need that many drivers? You'll end up with too much money" by saying, who are you to decide what is too much money for anyone but yourself? And some people use much harder economies (editing income factor or using economy mods), but, beyond that if you want to make it harder still you can just make new drivers focus on fuel economy... Permanently. This eliminates them leveling up to the point that they make €10,000+ per run because they never reach high levels in the other skills and, therefore, makes such a question totally invalid.

I personally enjoy the business portion of games and would like to see this fleshed out in both ETS2 and ATS by being able to hire staff who can help your business run more efficiently and smoothly but they cost you in wages and unlike drivers don't actually earn you any money. Plus having to pay for insurance because presently, in ATS at least, a heavily damaged truck is far too cheap to repair (especially considering the free insurance) which only encourages driving like a maniac. Combine this with hired drivers trucks actually taking regular damage regardless of job status and it requiring the same high cost maintenance as your own truck and the game becomes much more immersive which, after all, is what players seem to want from the game. Also being able to get regular contracts with in-game companies, e.g. deliver furniture from an IKA factory to the store every Friday at 5 AM, and scheduling drivers to do those deliveries or doing them yourself with high penalties if they are left incomplete. Plus some level of control over employee wages so that you can pay what you feel is right (obviously with a limit to how high or low you can pay) because the game does say "Asked Wage", not "Starting Wage."

Ultimately I feel increasing the business end of the game and the cost to run a company in game would make the it more enjoyable, more realistic/immersive and justify having a number of drivers equivalent to the maximum possible number of empty garage spaces (assuming all DLC are installed). I do however realize that such an overhaul would be hard and take a long time to implement but, SCS I implore you, please at least consider and look into doing this, think about which staff members keep your company alive as a business (Managers, PR team, Accountant, etc.) and incorporate this into the game if you can.

[Karlia]

Euro logistics simulator.. sounds awesome.. personally for me I would just like to see the Auto retarder and the power / eco transmission switches located in the cab where they should be and not in settings.. And the abillity to change your ADR placards without having to drive to a bloody mechanic and pay him/her to do it......

[wim1234]

its a drving simulations and not a business model one.

[Hypertext Eye]

Originally posted by Decrifix:

use the fan meetups and other events you are attending as a way of collecting photos for extra drivers

They can't do that for legal reasons.

find a way to make it easy for players to increase the number themselves

It is already easy enough. Use a mod.

[Hypertext Eye]

Originally posted by Decrifix:

"Why do you need that many drivers? You'll end up with too much money"

That's a terrible argument. I already have "too much money" with the currently available drivers.

you can just make new drivers focus on fuel economy... Permanently. This eliminates them leveling up

No it doesn't. Once they cap fuel economy they start taking other skills.

[Reese]

I primarily say no to increasing the driver limit for a few reasons. Each time I think about increasing it, my overall thought about it is no.

You mentioned one of them. Too much money. With the current non-mod economy, there is absolutely no reason to have more drivers. When you start breaking the game due to having hard-to-count amounts of money, then it is indeed too much. If there was a cap on the amount of money you could have, then this point would not be a valid reason against more drivers.

If a harder economy was wanted, then you would ignore drivers completely in my opinion. Any additional income makes it easier. I won't touch on individual playing preference here. I'll just leave this as is.

I enjoy the business management portion of games as well, assuming the focus is on that aspect. Part of the reason I enjoy ScarFace is because of the business management part of the game. Protecting your businesses to keep things moving. Unfortunately the focus of ATS/ETS2 is driving, with a forced aspect of building up a company. At most, it feels to me like we're just another employee who has been given way too much to worry about. Instead of focusing on the job of driving a truck, we're tasked with managing the trucks that other drivers use, and are responsibile for the income that they bring to the company. I hate when games do this, which is why I consider this to be against increasing the limit for drivers. While on this topic, I feel the amount of garages we can buy is much too many. However the amount of slots per garage is way too little.

As far as insurance goes, properly apportioned self-insurance would be preferable to me. Especially with the coming 1.32 update, apportioned trailer licensing and insuring is a valid aspect of managing a trucking company. It's a very important bit of mangement that often goes un-noticed by company drivers. The Co-insurance thing is pretty bad, but makes sense relative to your drivers if you assume your company does self-insure. Why would it cost your own self $45,000 to fix a truck you wrecked? Just hop into another truck and make your imaginary secretary find the money in the truck budget to get it fixed. Though if your employees screw up, then it would cost most as it's then a business expense. I would like to see dedicated routes with owned trailers.

I'm not against having more drivers for gameplay reasons. I'm against having more drivers for breaking the game when they aren't even a focus of the game. If you accept using mods to change the economy, then you should also accept using mods to add more drivers, which makes some points here invalid.

Good luck with your proposal.

[Supernovae]

Originally posted by Hypertext Eye:

Originally posted by Decrifix:

use the fan meetups and other events you are attending as a way of collecting photos for extra drivers

They can't do that for legal reasons.

They could, but only if all photographed people sign an agreement first.

I agree with OP on this, though I do think it should be a little longer until this is implemented. Supply and demand economy is in the works, and I hope to see a "Simulation", "Difficult", and "Arcade" economy settings first. Sim would be the most in depth, and Arcade would be what we have now. Difficult would be in the middle, with a hardish economy (think: YAEM on the Workshop), but lacking a few of the extra costs like taxes in Sim. Sim would pay out like te Klaas Economy mod on the Workshop, and overall would be very demanding on the driver.

[Karlia]

On insurance most large companies (say for arguments sake 30 units plus) do not have vehicle nor freight cover, they do generaly however have public liabilty cover. Primary reason for no vehicle insurance is it is the scale of cost for cover verses damage is more cost effective to fix / replace / payout or contest in court than it is to pay out millions each year in premiums and excess.

[Decrifix]

Originally posted by Hypertext Eye:

No it doesn't. Once they cap fuel economy they start taking other skills.

From my experience they only do that if you leave them to focus on "Balanced" skills. I had drivers totally focus on fuel economy when I first started playing and they didn't start levelling other skills until I switched them to other skills.

Originally posted by Supernovae:

They could, but only if all photographed people sign an agreement first.

That's actually kind of what I meant. Fan meetups are a great way for players who don't mind/want their picture in the game to get it. I didn't just mean walk up to a fan and take their picture without consent and use it. I'm not a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ imbecile.

Originally posted by Hypertext Eye:

It is already easy enough. Use a mod.

I've looked, I saw 2 mods that claimed to do it but both of them had commenters saying they only increased the choice of drivers not the number you can hire and considering I am yet to see a screenshot of someone with one of those mods installed and over 300 drivers hired I'm a little sceptical to download one and potentially screw up my game.

Originally posted by Reese's Cup:

With the current non-mod economy, there is absolutely no reason to have more drivers. When you start breaking the game due to having hard-to-count amounts of money, then it is indeed too much. If there was a cap on the amount of money you could have, then this point would not be a valid reason against more drivers.

If a harder economy was wanted, then you would ignore drivers completely in my opinion. Any additional income makes it easier.

First, thank you for a well thought response.

Second the current economy can be edited without installing mods, I don't remember where in the files it is you might be able to do it through the command console, there is a line that says "uset g_income_factor 1.0" as far as I know it can only be reduced in increments of .1 but that can be used to make the jobs worth far less.

Thirdly I kind of look at the economy and in game business as something that could work like Prison Architect where more prisoners means more money but risks everything going to ♥♥♥♥. So yes a harder economy implies ignoring drivers but I feel that it would, at least with extra company costs being introduced, increase their usefulness. Presently it's entirely possible to start a profile do a couple of quickjobs, get a loan, buy a truck, use it to pay off the loan, and then basically only have to do jobs when you need money for fuel to continue exploring.

Originally posted by wim1234:

its a drving simulations and not a business model one.

If you go to the website though (https://eurotrucksimulator2.com/) it literally has a section titled "Company Management" which states "The game does not end after you buy your dream truck - Euro Truck Simulator 2 allows you to grow a vast shipping company from the comfort of your home - you have a full choice of drivers, fleet and the way your company grows" Which implies business management but there really is none your choices are basically limited to "Go it alone" or "Get rich quick" and the steam page says "Build your own fleet of trucks, buy garages, hire drivers, manage your company for maximum profits." I don't care about "maximum profits" I just want the implied management.

Overall I'd like to see map expansions settled down on ETS2 for a while in favor of feature development to make the game more immersive. Perhaps give each player the option of "Truck Driver" or "Truck Driver/Company Manager" which means people who don't want to use all sorts of management options don't have to.

[Madkine]

Originally posted by Decrifix:

Second the current economy can be edited without installing mods, I don't remember where in the files it is you might be able to do it through the command console, there is a line that says "uset g_income_factor 1.0" as far as I know it can only be reduced in increments of .1 but that can be used to make the jobs worth far less.

Technically changeing any of the values in these files is "modding" the game.

This value can be changed in smaller increments. For ATS I currently have it set to 0.04.
However unless you also modify a bunch of values elsewhere, with this setting your hired drivers will lose money on every load.

[Decrifix]

Originally posted by Madkine:

Technically changeing any of the values in these files is "modding" the game.

Well, yeah, but that's why I said "without installing mods" doing it this way reduces the likelihood you'll permanently screw up your save because you can just change it back if you wanted to.

[Hypertext Eye]

Originally posted by Decrifix:

I'm not a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ imbecile.

No one said you were an imbecile, and if that's all you took from my comment, then you have other issues you need to deal with.

However, what you're talking about (using pictures of fans) is a little more complicated than just "sign an agreement".

[Decrifix]

Originally posted by Hypertext Eye:

Originally posted by Decrifix:

I'm not a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ imbecile.

No one said you were an imbecile, and if that's all you took from my comment, then you have other issues you need to deal with.

However, what you're talking about (using pictures of fans) is a little more complicated than just "sign an agreement".

That's not how I took your comment at all.

I'm not talking about approaching fans and asking them if they want to or trying to force/trick anyone into doing it. I'm on about leaving an open opportunity at fan meetups for anyone who wants their picture in the game to get their picture taken there.

I assume by "a little more complicated" you mean legal issues, which, signing a consent form actually does deal with those issues. Legally there is no more to it. And it's not like they have to use that persons real name they can just assign them a name from a hat. It's not like it would be obligatory for every attendee nor a requirement to play the game. It's no more complicated than taking a photo with a stranger in a Princess Leia outfit at a Star Wars event then posting it to Facebook or Twitter. Arguably it's less complicated because the person has agreed to it's inclusion. Add in a clause about being able to withdraw consent at any time, give the person a copy of the contract and boom job done.

And if you want a final comparison then compare it to games that have facescan technology e.g. 2K's games which allows you to upload a picture of yourself into the game and use it to make your character look like you, this can then be uploaded to a gallery for anyone to download. There's no agreement to sign there and yet there doesn't seem to be anyone suing 2K over the inclusion of the feature. Why? Because it isn't mandatory.

[Decrifix]

The other thing is I mentioned other events, like the truck races they based a WOT event on, offer the same opportunity to both the fans and if the opportunity arises the competitors. Again non-obligatory with a retractable consent form.

[Hypertext Eye]

Originally posted by Decrifix:

I assume by "a little more complicated" you mean legal issues, which, signing a consent form actually does deal with those issues.

Actually no, it doesn't. There is money involved, which always overcomplicates things.

Legal issues aside, this also has the potential to be a PR nightmare. Consider how many more drivers they would need to fill up all the garages (not all that many really) vs how many people would want to have their picture in the game (I'm guessing quite a lot). If they only use pictures of people from fan gatherings and truck shows, etc, then they are excluding people who may not have the ability or opportunity to attend one of those. If they left it open to the general fanbase, then how do they decide who gets their picture in the game and what pictures to use? A lottery type system might be the logical choice, but you know people will cry foul when their number doesn't get picked.
Of course, they could leave it completely open and allow anyone who wants to submit a picture (with some guidelines and someone at SCS manually looking through all the pictures before they are added). But then that would unnecessarily (IMO) bloat the game's file system. Regarding disk space, that's probably an extremely minor consideration. The driver pictures in the game are tiny, tiny things that barely take up any space. I don't really know what other problems that might cause.

[Madkine]

Originally posted by Hypertext Eye:

Originally posted by Decrifix:

I assume by "a little more complicated" you mean legal issues, which, signing a consent form actually does deal with those issues.

Actually no, it doesn't. There is money involved, which always overcomplicates things.

There doesn't need to be any money involved. Basically they would be giving you the option to include your face in the game, nothing more.