Driver salery increase on level

[BambusTech]

Hello all. can anyone please tell me why my driver's salery, increases every single time they level up? if I hire a driver that wants e.g. 20 € for every kilometer driven, it will increase when said driver gains a level, why?
in my time of working, I never got a salery increase despite "learning new things." also, it's my very own business, so surely I administer who gets a salery increase, right? although experience would dictate that I do not decide this. so clearly someone needs to be fired for doing stuff I don't want, or for doing something they shouldn't be doing in the first place.

after windows 10 was forced on me, I had a break from ETS (sad to see several hundreds of hours just vanish into thin air), I've come back and thought, instead of just hiring the best drivers who wants the biggest paycheck, I'll higher the worst drivers, who in term don't want as high a salery, they will get better, and haul home the same amount of cash, BUT at a smaller salery, meaning in the end, I'll gain money (at least that was the idea (regardless of it turning out that way, like it did in my head)), just to now realizing that this is sadly not how things work. I'm better off just hiring the best drivers to begin with, since my drivers will get a salery increase for every level anyways, meaning I save no money, and I'm just delaying the big payoffs from my drivers, due to them being lower level than I could hire, and end with the same salery.

ei. if a level 10 driver wants 40 € for every kilometer, it doesn't matter if he started off being level 1 when I hired him and has earned his way to level 10, or I simply hired a level 10 driver in the first place, salery seems to end at the same amount regardless.
this surely is sad to realize, and now I just figured I would ask, why this is so.

a company might reward you for being a loyal worker and stuff, but surely it's not based on time in the company? you will get 10 cent an hour (or in this case, every driven kilometer) extra, every 3 months, just because... don't think any company works like that. it's probably based on other things than just how long you've been in the company.
and surely it's not the driver who administers his or her salery? "I've learned something new, I want a salery increase!" and automatically gets it. who authorises this? the driver? why don't he or she just go: "I want 200 € for every kilometer driven!" or something like that? seems like the drivers have more authority than the company owner himself, since I can't just say, "I want 300000 € for this haul, take it or leave it."


how many of you authorise your own salery, like my drivers in this game does? it can't possibly be many.

anyways, long rant is over. and hopefully I won't get laughed at too much, for asking a (perhaps) stupid question.
might just be me who can't see the forest, because there are so many trees in the way!

thank you all for your time, take care.

[metpei]

Same salary raise happens to you too, just like rl salary raises with better learned skills. If this game salaries would be same as rl, players would quit soon, that's reason paychecks need to be much larger to expand your company fast. Even now many players complains that it takes forever and they use money and experience cheats. I think giving drivers same salary than player is necessary to get little rl feeling to run company.
Hire drivers with skills, don't care their salary and afterwards they make you more millions than you can spent.

[Nimir-Raj]

When it comes to driving you do get better pay for more skill. Do you really think an ADR/Car Transporter gets paid the same as a general box trailer delivery driver?

Yes the system is flawed, but that's because the hired drivers use the same level system as we do. It's not perfect, but do you really want SCS to run off and work tirelessly on an AI payment/leveling system when they could be doing for more important things?

[Nono54Fr]

Originally posted by BambusTech:

in my time of working, I never got a salery increase despite "learning new things."

Then your country is wrong, IMHO.

Originally posted by BambusTech:

also, it's my very own business, so surely I administer who gets a salery increase, right?

European game based on an european economy where it's the law to have wages based on degrees and experiences (If I'm not mistaken).

Originally posted by BambusTech:

although experience would dictate that I do not decide this. so clearly someone needs to be fired for doing stuff I don't want, or for doing something they shouldn't be doing in the first place.

That's how you ended up with all your experienced drivers leaving for another company and stuck with a fleet of newbie, aka a company unable to grow in any direction.

Originally posted by BambusTech:

why this is so.

It seems the drivers does not progress past level 36 so it's only fair to think that their wages may also not increase past level 36.

Originally posted by BambusTech:

a company might reward you for being a loyal worker and stuff, but surely it's not based on time in the company?

How do you differentiate being loyal to a company and the time spent in the company ? It's the same thing (IMHO).

Originally posted by BambusTech:

you will get 10 cent an hour (or in this case, every driven kilometer) extra, every 3 months, just because... don't think any company works like that. it's probably based on other things than just how long you've been in the company.

In France, seniority is discussed between the boss and its employees yearly, not monthly but yeah, " time spent in the company + new skills + new responsabilities + quality of works + work ethics " = yearly increase. And I've witnessed, for the same job, a veteran of 15 year earning an increase of 0,5% (+200 per year) and the new guy of 5 year earning an increase of 3,5% (+1k per year), decreasing their gap of 10 year from 5k to 3,5k.

Originally posted by BambusTech:

and surely it's not the driver who administers his or her salery? "I've learned something new, I want a salery increase!" and automatically gets it. who authorises this? the driver? why don't he or she just go: "I want 200 € for every kilometer driven!" or something like that? seems like the drivers have more authority than the company owner himself, since I can't just say, "I want 300000 € for this haul, take it or leave it."

If an employee is the only one with that skill or that knowledge, he should gamble, the boss needs him, he won't say no. But in a field with thousand of applicant, even if it doesn't hurt to ask more, one out ...

Originally posted by BambusTech:

how many of you authorise your own salery, like my drivers in this game does? it can't possibly be many.

Again, my country has lots and lots of laws for that, like entry level salary, yearly increase, bonuses, benefits and the boss has a lot of leeway about them.

[metpei]

Driver level cap is 30 and if you want to be dictator and reinstall slavery, edit economy_data.sii, defaults:

# AI driver related configuration
#
fuel_cost_per_km: (1.5, 2.0) # for driver simulation
driver_max_cargo_damage: 6.0 # in %, decrease with skill
driver_maintenance_cost: (1.8, 3.0) # maintenance + insurance, base range in E/km
minimal_driver_salary: 350 # fixed part of driver's pay
driver_revenue_per_km: 10 # in Euro

driver_hire_cost: 1500 # Euro

free_driver_level_cap: 30 # don't grow offered drivers higher than this level
driver_offer_scrap_prob: 0.5

driver_quitwarn_time: 3 # days
driver_quit_time: 5 # days
driver_no_return_job_prob: 0.1 # 10% of no return job, decrease with skill

driver_skilled_job_prob: 0.8

#

[BambusTech]

Originally posted by metpei:

Same salary raise happens to you too, just like rl salary raises with better learned skills. If this game salaries would be same as rl, players would quit soon, that's reason paychecks need to be much larger to expand your company fast. Even now many players complains that it takes forever and they use money and experience cheats. I think giving drivers same salary than player is necessary to get little rl feeling to run company.
Hire drivers with skills, don't care their salary and afterwards they make you more millions than you can spent.

actually, my personal experience with real life and it's salery is that there will be no change, regardless of duration of employment. a month, a year, doesn't matter.
the only difference being the field in question and rank. if two people are in the same field and got the same rank in the company, doesn't matter if one guy is freshmen and the other is an experienced veteran, they would get the same salery. that's my experience at least, logic would dictate that it's not yours though, cudos :)

real life feeling from salery, I doubt there are that many people getting the same salery as the company owner, unless said company isn't doing that great, going bankrupt etc. (have heard such stories from Ramsey's kitchen nightmares where owner doesn't get paid at all, and employees gets paid (at least some, of their salery)). but this is not such a case.

and honestly speaking about the game overall, it's a "simulation" type of driving game. let's try and keep at that (?) (but understand from your statement, I might be amongst the lesser group who thinks (and wants it) that way)
I for one don't want to play a simulation game and remove the simulation. then it's just yet another driving game. just rather slow paced (compared to your typical driving games like NFS)

on a similar note, I lose touch with people when they want to play a simulation of something, and then rob that simulation, of the simulation. and I have heard some stories (oh no! I got a speeding ticket from speeding! (looks in option to turn that function off (shakes head in despair))


I for one wouldn't mind being in major debt from the beginning to get my garage etc in the first place, and spend 10 years removing it, trying to build a truck empire at the same time, could be a challenge in and on itself. the one thing I would probably dislike, would be the time comsumption and then get that cargo, which I've almost hauled to it's destination, go "puff" due to game change from devs. spending 30 hours of real time to haul one shipment and then for it all to vanish because of game update, would probably make me cry.
but spending 30 hours to play a game in the first place, not that big a deal if I truly enjoy the game. and since I'm (can't remember fully) nearing 400 hours of play time, I think I qualify for "truly enjoying the game." although I'm sure there are more than plenty of people who has spent thousands of hours.

also on that front, from what little I have played of ATS, it's harder to get the company rolling in that game, less cash is my general experience. but haven't been there in a while, not since I returned to ETS 2.

Originally posted by Surrounded Alone Moh1336:

When it comes to driving you do get better pay for more skill. Do you really think an ADR/Car Transporter gets paid the same as a general box trailer delivery driver?

Yes the system is flawed, but that's because the hired drivers use the same level system as we do. It's not perfect, but do you really want SCS to run off and work tirelessly on an AI payment/leveling system when they could be doing for more important things?

from your first statement it sounds like you're saying that there are no experienced general box trailer delivery drivers. because they change profession after X amount of time in the field "now I've spent 5 years here, time to step up my game and do something bigger"
not sure that really is the case.

but my point on that was, wouldn't salery increase be up for debate, prior to giving it in the first place?
I mean, if the driver doesn't complain, and seems happy with his salery, then why do something?
besides I'm pretty sure that they could rather simple, work something out for drivers. instead of increments of 1%, make it 0.75%. but use same overall template. the only time consuming thing I see is the testing phase. changing a few numbers to something that is a bit lower, can't take that long since, basically 90% of the coding would be copy pasted, as I see it. but then again, I have only little experience with coding something, and that little isn't exactly with programming. but I have copy pasted a lot of coding on that front, and just changing a few numbers from one thing to another, isn't really that difficult nor all that time comsuming.

my logic could be flawed here but, it would give a more "logic" and "rl" feel to the game than what is currently installed. but that might just be me.

thank you both for your time and for your replies, and giving some sort of insight that I might just live in the wrong universe and have the wrong mindset, compared to the rest of us mortals. cheers :D

[P.E.R.F.E.C.T.]

Originally posted by metpei:

Driver level cap is 30 and if you want to be dictator and reinstall slavery, edit economy_data.sii, defaults:

# AI driver related configuration
#
fuel_cost_per_km: (1.5, 2.0) # for driver simulation
driver_max_cargo_damage: 6.0 # in %, decrease with skill
driver_maintenance_cost: (1.8, 3.0) # maintenance + insurance, base range in E/km
minimal_driver_salary: 350 # fixed part of driver's pay
driver_revenue_per_km: 10 # in Euro

driver_hire_cost: 1500 # Euro

free_driver_level_cap: 30 # don't grow offered drivers higher than this level
driver_offer_scrap_prob: 0.5

driver_quitwarn_time: 3 # days
driver_quit_time: 5 # days
driver_no_return_job_prob: 0.1 # 10% of no return job, decrease with skill

driver_skilled_job_prob: 0.8

#

where can I find this file?

[la_cucaracha]

Originally posted by metpei:

Driver level cap is 30 and if you want to be dictator and reinstall slavery, edit economy_data.sii
#

This made me chuckle.

Also, at the rate money is earned after getting past the initial hurdles what does it matter, I find I have more money than I know what to do with in no time.

[BambusTech]

Originally posted by Crumpets:

Originally posted by metpei:

Driver level cap is 30 and if you want to be dictator and reinstall slavery, edit economy_data.sii
#

This made me chuckle.:Teddy_up:

Also, at the rate money is earned after getting past the initial hurdles what does it matter, I find I have more money than I know what to do with in no time.

how long/til when, are "initial hurdles"? just wondering how far away I am.. I can still only purchase a handful of garages a week -.-

[la_cucaracha]

Originally posted by BambusTech:

Originally posted by Crumpets:

This made me chuckle.

Also, at the rate money is earned after getting past the initial hurdles what does it matter, I find I have more money than I know what to do with in no time.

how long/til when, are "initial hurdles"? just wondering how far away I am.. I can still only purchase a handful of garages a week -.-

Depends how you play, sounds like I did something different from you.

Sounds like you want to complete the game in 10 hours?

[metpei]

Originally posted by BambusTech:

actually, my personal experience with real life and it's salery is that there will be no change, regardless of duration of employment. a month, a year, doesn't matter.
the only difference being the field in question and rank. if two people are in the same field and got the same rank in the company, doesn't matter if one guy is freshmen and the other is an experienced veteran, they would get the same salery. that's my experience at least, logic would dictate that it's not yours though, cudos :)

In Finland laws and union don't allow you do that.

Originally posted by BambusTech:

real life feeling from salery, I doubt there are that many people getting the same salery as the company owner, unless said company isn't doing that great, going bankrupt etc. (have heard such stories from Ramsey's kitchen nightmares where owner doesn't get paid at all, and employees gets paid (at least some, of their salery)). but this is not such a case.

No, you understand it wrong. When you do quick jobs you get same salary than drives in game. When you drive own truck you get much higher money for a same job, try compare yourself.

Originally posted by BambusTech:

from your first statement it sounds like you're saying that there are no experienced general box trailer delivery drivers. because they change profession after X amount of time in the field "now I've spent 5 years here, time to step up my game and do something bigger"
not sure that really is the case.

Why not, it only natural that you want to keep good trusty workers and raise their salary or they will surely find another better company.

Originally posted by BambusTech:

but my point on that was, wouldn't salery increase be up for debate, prior to giving it in the first place?
I mean, if the driver doesn't complain, and seems happy with his salery, then why do something?

Here are laws and union will call even nation wide strike or they sue you.
If employer don't pay what is national agreement, employee can (will) sue employer afterwards and employer have to pay difference + intrests + court expences. Welcome to Finland! ;)

Originally posted by BambusTech:

my logic could be flawed here but, it would give a more "logic" and "rl" feel to the game than what is currently installed. but that might just be me.

thank you both for your time and for your replies, and giving some sort of insight that I might just live in the wrong universe and have the wrong mindset, compared to the rest of us mortals. cheers :D

It's pleasure to see others opinions and other world habits without fight and yelling for a change, thank you! :)

[BambusTech]

Originally posted by Crumpets:

Originally posted by BambusTech:

how long/til when, are "initial hurdles"? just wondering how far away I am.. I can still only purchase a handful of garages a week -.-

Depends how you play, sounds like I did something different from you.

Sounds like you want to complete the game in 10 hours?

what I did (this time around) was to hire the worst drivers cause they were cheaper, cause I thought (by my flawed logic) that their wages wouldn't increase, but the money they would eventually haul home, would be the same as the experienced drivers would haul home. I thought I could achieve the same amount of cash, just with a cheaper driver. which as mentioned, isn't how things work. and that is probably what you did differently ;)

also, about completing the game in 10 hours. not sure this game actually has an end in the first place. and if it does, I don't know when that end is. all gararges fully upgraded with 100% efficiency? just a guess haha. and if that is "the end". I guess I'm about 650 hours or so, away from it (maniacal laughter)
(would more or less count my 1000 hours in this game (also, like said, not on this save, the majority was on a long gone save, before MS got the thought that I would enjoy windows 10 (which wiped a ton of savegames and documents and stuff, including a 300 or so hour ETS 2 save file)))

but I digress.
thank you for your time mate. cheers

[BambusTech]

alright, thank you all so much for your time, and of course, insight in politics and your general oppinions. I see the errors of my ways and my flawed logic. it has been an interesting read. but I think the time has come for all of us to move on. the road has been successfully built (or succesfully repaired (whichever you prefer :D))

I will of course keep monitoring this thread, just in case. but I think we can wrap this up.

thank you all so much for your time and all your effort in writing what you have, and explaining it all in words even I can understand. truly appreciate it all, thank you.:)

good luck to you all in your future endeavours and take care.

best regards: BambusTech

[The Pitts]

Just to correct a couple of misconceptions about the game economy in this thread.

Originally posted by Nono54Fr:

It seems the drivers does not progress past level 36 so it's only fair to think that their wages may also not increase past level 36.

Drivers do indeed grow beyond level 36 under the covers, and their wages continue to increase accordingly. Their levels are based on XP, just the same as yours albeit using a different scale, and that XP keeps on growing even if you cannot see the effect after all six skills have reached their maximum levels.

Originally posted by metpei:

Driver level cap is 30

There is no driver level cap at 30, that setting is for the maximum level that a driver can reach when not employed by the player.

[metpei]

Originally posted by The Pitts:

Drivers do indeed grow beyond level 36 under the covers, and their wages continue to increase accordingly. Their levels are based on XP, just the same as yours albeit using a different scale, and that XP keeps on growing even if you cannot see the effect after all six skills have reached their maximum levels.

Originally posted by metpei:

Driver level cap is 30

There is no driver level cap at 30, that setting is for the maximum level that a driver can reach when not employed by the player.

How can drivers get level in drivers agency?! They can't level unless you hire them?
Drivers agency offers only level 1-3 drivers and have you read economy_data.sii

Originally posted by шурыгина:

where can I find this file?

Extract def.scs http://modding.scssoft.com/wiki/Documentation/Tools/Game_Archive_Extractor
http://forum.scssoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=190685

[Nono54Fr]

Originally posted by metpei:

How can drivers get level in drivers agency?! They can't level unless you hire them? Drivers agency offers only level 1-3 drivers and have you read economy_data.sii

Hire them then fire them. Hired a guy @ 0.8, fired two days later, re-hired @ 2.5.

Maybe it is or was a loophole and can't be done anymore. But if it can ...