I believe the recent backlash on the hate over nata is because he is "relatable" to a certain type.

[Mister Magician]

I think it is very commonly agreed that nata is a bad character who brings the experience down. I'll limit all the things I can say to just the reaction to this character because it's hard enough on the pro-nata people as is!

The funny thing is in japanese he's apparently just a damaged, fatherless kid that doesn't really take the spotlight, and is clearly having a nervous breakdown. In english he's one of THREE main characters that take attention over you the player, and the game seems to want you to agree with him.

What's worse is that in english, nata is clearly a self-insert. nata is also clearly designed to be taken seriously, and his words are clearly the honest beliefs of the localization staff.

I think the people who are trying to currently defend his character as "empathetic" (at least 8 of those 10 letters are correct, feel free to figure out which ones!) and "traumatized" are missing that the english writers want people to sagely nod along to what he is saying and feel smug. Possibly snap while obliviously saying "yeah, man!" and maybe even give reddit gold.

I can only wonder in horror what "DEBOONK" and "deconstruction" tropes the writers either could not put in or are saving for the required 15 hour struggle session in the g-rank story.

In that regard I think the people starting to defend him in the anti-nata threads see themselves in him, and they don't like it; especially how people aren't just calling him "stunning and brave" like the writers wanted you to.

No "media literacy" will change that.

---

The actual distillation of the thread and point of the thread is post #187, but post #299 says it more bluntly. I tried marking some posts quoting it as answer because the response was so hilariously on point to the topic that I had to enshrine it. Unfortunately the troll who made the response changed his message, and so I changed the answer.

[JoJo]

hes annoying af

[Scipo0419]

引用自 zero：

its mostly just people getting worked up cause the child is, well, acting like a child, and people cannot handle that.

People forget they did dumb and illogical ♥♥♥♥ at 11-12 years old too. He's 13 at the oldest ffs. I definitely did ♥♥♥♥ that the adults around me thought "he's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying kid." at 13 years old.

[Mister Magician]

引用自 Scipo0419：

引用自 Mister Magician：

that was not important.

nihilism is as abhorrent as it is wrong and silly, that's why it's bad; of course it's worse than bad.

Right. So you have a "newborn" character who had their entire worldview twisted into a nihilistic viewpoint that living is meaningless and death is true happiness and your goal was to show them that there's more to life than just misery and death. How is that *not* important? Could it have been handled better? Yes, case and point is Ultron. Dude was tasked with world peace, found out in 3 seconds the world will never be at peace as long as humans exist, decides to try and wipe out humanity. In the process humans work together to save each other from his coming annihilation and he ultimately loses and comes to terms that his "vision" (pun intended) wasn't right.

I suppose my issue is that the "solution" is that the answer given isn't refuting nihilism, but just saying there are ways to stave it off a bit longer.

it's the same problem I have with any of chris avellone's scripts, especially kotor 2 (though that isn't even his worst), because he really just cannot conceive of any refutation or even pushback against his trendy nihilism. every interaction with kreia is infuriating because there is zero option to answer what are really easy, day one philosophical questions (just not to nihilists), and it's clear the reason why is that avellone cannot think of any and more importantly that avellone really doesn't want you to be able to answer or disagree with him.

My issue with nata is that whenever he says or does any of the ridiculous and silly things he does, no one chastises him or tells him off or corrects him. The reason is because the writers clearly agree with him and don't want disagreement.

[zero]

引用自 Scipo0419：

引用自 zero：

its mostly just people getting worked up cause the child is, well, acting like a child, and people cannot handle that.

People forget they did dumb and illogical ♥♥♥♥ at 11-12 years old too. He's 13 at the oldest ffs. I definitely did ♥♥♥♥ that the adults around me thought "he's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying kid." at 13 years old.

pretty much, like, in the context of his world view, everything he does is logical: he lashes out at the thing that attacked what is functionally his family, he goes along with you cause hes your guide and makes ignorant statements cause he is, well, ignorant.

and hten he finally gets the chance to learn about his communities history, his familys past, and learns that he is to blame for the creatures very existance, the community burden is now upon him, so when we finally get to the big scene: he realizes hes similar to the creature, responsible for it, so he wishes for it to be free, without looking at the bigger picture.

which is the point: hes not a hunter, he is a child from a small secluded village, he hasn;t seen the bigger picture yet, and he is shown to be wrong for it, which is why we hunt it anyway, and how it all ends with him shown to be training to be part of the guild in some manner, hence the carving knife and all his talks with other npcs.

he is, obviously, a flawed character: cause hes a child, hes growing.

[[Asgard] Thor]

引用自 Goblin：

Or.. people dislike him because he's not white. Because this is the Steam forums, and I've seen plenty of evidence over the last 15 years to suggest that could be the legitimate reason.

I remember when the live action mermaid movie was coming out I remarked that the skin tone was going to be the least of the problems. Seems to be a trend. Localization teams changing story tones for their ideology isn't new.

[Scipo0419]

引用自 zero：

引用自 Scipo0419：

People forget they did dumb and illogical ♥♥♥♥ at 11-12 years old too. He's 13 at the oldest ffs. I definitely did ♥♥♥♥ that the adults around me thought "he's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying kid." at 13 years old.

pretty much, like, in the context of his world view, everything he does is logical: he lashes out at the thing that attacked what is functionally his family, he goes along with you cause hes your guide and makes ignorant statements cause he is, well, ignorant.

and hten he finally gets the chance to learn about his communities history, his familys past, and learns that he is to blame for the creatures very existance, the community burden is now upon him, so when we finally get to the big scene: he realizes hes similar to the creature, responsible for it, so he wishes for it to be free, without looking at the bigger picture.

which is the point: hes not a hunter, he is a child from a small secluded village, he hasn;t seen the bigger picture yet, and he is shown to be wrong for it, which is why we hunt it anyway, and how it all ends with him shown to be training to be part of the guild in some manner, hence the carving knife and all his talks with other npcs.

he is, obviously, a flawed character: cause hes a child, hes growing.

Well said! I'd also like to add that at one pont he *very* seriously wanted to kill this monster with his own hands. Which adds to that community burden and guilt. Hence his "are we the baddies?" moment.

[zero]

引用自 Scipo0419：

引用自 zero：

pretty much, like, in the context of his world view, everything he does is logical: he lashes out at the thing that attacked what is functionally his family, he goes along with you cause hes your guide and makes ignorant statements cause he is, well, ignorant.

and hten he finally gets the chance to learn about his communities history, his familys past, and learns that he is to blame for the creatures very existance, the community burden is now upon him, so when we finally get to the big scene: he realizes hes similar to the creature, responsible for it, so he wishes for it to be free, without looking at the bigger picture.

which is the point: hes not a hunter, he is a child from a small secluded village, he hasn;t seen the bigger picture yet, and he is shown to be wrong for it, which is why we hunt it anyway, and how it all ends with him shown to be training to be part of the guild in some manner, hence the carving knife and all his talks with other npcs.

he is, obviously, a flawed character: cause hes a child, hes growing.

Well said! I'd also like to add that at one pont he *very* seriously wanted to kill this monster with his own hands. Which adds to that community burden and guilt. Hence his "are we the baddies?" moment.

yeah, pretty much, a lot of people have poor media literacy so like even with all this hamfisted stuff they still dont grasp the trees in the forest, or the fact that he is very much being used to prop up the guild: as a tool to actually show environmentalism and how an out of balance ecosystem affects everyone lol

[Forte]

引用自 Ninisty：

It really just comes down to "I have no attachment to this character, will refuse to make an attachment for this character and will die on this hill about my opinion on this character." While outright refusing that this character goes through multiple stages of growth and development. It does bring up an interesting topic with the process of becoming a hunter. Last I heard, you needed the hunter gene to be one. Maybe that was retconned too.

As for the harpy, my only real gripe was that they're trying to redeem space hitler. There's absolutely no way you let a cosmic being who massacred countless worlds find redemption.

"But SHE is just like ME, we just want to be free! She decided to do this on her own!" - Nata, probably.

[FallenActual]

He's just an annoying character I'd like to see gone like the ice age baby... worlds better off with out em

[Mister Magician]

nata isn't showing bad writing because he acts like a fool start to finish, and only shuts up and tries to learn at the very end due to gameplay mechanics; the game has bad writing because no one stands up to nata, smacks him, and tells him off.

it's clear the developers want him to be seen as "beyond his years" and "wise," when he talks and thinks like a reddit posting 25 year old with a child's face. it's also clear they cannot think of (or more-accurately do not want there to be) an answer or refutation to what he is saying.

In other words, he's clearly a self-insert. narcissism is common in certain fields (and narcissism and nihilism are ultimately the same thing), chris avellone is the standard now.

[zero]

引用自 Mister Magician：

nata isn't showing bad writing because he acts like a fool start to finish, and only shuts up and tries to learn at the very end due to gameplay mechanics; the game has bad writing because no one stands up to nata, smacks him, and tells him off.

it's clear the developers want him to be seen as "beyond his years" and "wise," when he talks and thinks like a reddit posting 25 year old with a child's face. it's also clear they cannot think of (or more-accurately do not want there to be) an answer or refutation to what he is saying.

In other words, he's clearly a self-insert. narcissism is common in certain fields (and narcissism and nihilism are ultimately the same thing), chris avellone is the standard now.

hes not really contradicted until he returns home, to "learn" is the thing, he is just expressed shown that the white death is a threat time and time again until that moment, so hes been in the right.

that isn't bad writing, that is, functionally, "unrealiable narrator" moment, in which the person telling the story(nata) did not have the full picture, to no surprise.

hes never shown to be wise beyond his years, by any stretch, hes actually shown time and time again to be ignorant, due to his upbringing and isolation from the outside world.

[Mister Magician]

引用自 zero：

引用自 Mister Magician：

nata isn't showing bad writing because he acts like a fool start to finish, and only shuts up and tries to learn at the very end due to gameplay mechanics; the game has bad writing because no one stands up to nata, smacks him, and tells him off.

it's clear the developers want him to be seen as "beyond his years" and "wise," when he talks and thinks like a reddit posting 25 year old with a child's face. it's also clear they cannot think of (or more-accurately do not want there to be) an answer or refutation to what he is saying.

In other words, he's clearly a self-insert. narcissism is common in certain fields (and narcissism and nihilism are ultimately the same thing), chris avellone is the standard now.

hes not really contradicted until he returns home, to "learn" is the thing, he is just expressed shown that the white death is a threat time and time again until that moment, so hes been in the right.

that isn't bad writing, that is, functionally, "unrealiable narrator" moment, in which the person telling the story(nata) did not have the full picture, to no surprise.

hes never shown to be wise beyond his years, by any stretch, hes actually shown time and time again to be ignorant, due to his upbringing and isolation from the outside world.

It's pretty obvious that you're supposed to be like "woah, man, far out!" when he starts talking about arkveld being "literally me" or how tradition is "slavery."

that the story cutscenes instantly contradict him is notable but something many won't notice. most people just take the surface level stuff, so they won't see the contradiction.

take how his "arkveld just wants to be free" speech is seconds before you realize arkveld has devolved into madness and cannibalism, and is forcing himself to eat despite not having a stomach because he wants to die. how many people noticed that?

it's subtle, but the walking simulator dialogue is a sledgehammer, and so you aren't looking for subtlety here.

the localization and original japanese story, which apparently DOES clearly characterize nata as a foolish kid on wits end, are at odds.

[Jean]

People hate children who act realistically in given situations, especially boys. Been a long-time issue with characters over time (Ken in Persona 3, Hope in FFXIII, etc). Nata is a bit selfish and bratty and grows over the course of the game. I feel like your Hunter still gets the spotlight they deserve.... Nata is cute I literally do not know why people hate him so much.

[zero]

引用自 Mister Magician：

引用自 zero：

hes not really contradicted until he returns home, to "learn" is the thing, he is just expressed shown that the white death is a threat time and time again until that moment, so hes been in the right.

that isn't bad writing, that is, functionally, "unrealiable narrator" moment, in which the person telling the story(nata) did not have the full picture, to no surprise.

hes never shown to be wise beyond his years, by any stretch, hes actually shown time and time again to be ignorant, due to his upbringing and isolation from the outside world.

It's pretty obvious that you're supposed to be like "woah, man, far out!" when he starts talking about arkveld being "literally me" or how tradition is "slavery."

that the story cutscenes instantly contradict him is notable but something many won't notice. take how his "arkveld just wants to be free" speech is seconds before you realize arkveld has devolved into madness and cannibalism, and is forcing himself to eat despite not having a stomach because he wants to die.

the localization and original japanese story, which apparently DOES clearly characterize nata as a foolish kid on wits end, are at odds.

i have no idea why you think you're supposed to be like "far out" when he says that, you are supposed to see a child acting emotional after learning of his lineage, is that not what you saw?

the story cutscenes contradict him is the point, people not having the media literacy to realize that is very much on them, nata is shown to be objectively in the wrong, which is why the handler and hunter very much stop him and go hunt it anyway.

he is a foolish kid lashing out in every language, is the thing, you haven't really said when it shows otherwise.

[Mister Magician]

引用自 zero：

引用自 Mister Magician：

It's pretty obvious that you're supposed to be like "woah, man, far out!" when he starts talking about arkveld being "literally me" or how tradition is "slavery."

that the story cutscenes instantly contradict him is notable but something many won't notice. take how his "arkveld just wants to be free" speech is seconds before you realize arkveld has devolved into madness and cannibalism, and is forcing himself to eat despite not having a stomach because he wants to die.

the localization and original japanese story, which apparently DOES clearly characterize nata as a foolish kid on wits end, are at odds.

i have no idea why you think you're supposed to be like "far out" when he says that, you are supposed to see a child acting emotional after learning of his lineage, is that not what you saw?

the story cutscenes contradict him is the point, people not having the media literacy to realize that is very much on them, nata is shown to be objectively in the wrong, which is why the handler and hunter very much stop him and go hunt it anyway.

he is a foolish kid lashing out in every language, is the thing, you haven't really said when it shows otherwise.

because that's clearly what the writers believe.

if nata is contradicted, it is subtly and in cutscenes or gameplay or by implication or common sense. it's subtle, but the walking simulator dialogue is a sledgehammer, and so you aren't looking for subtlety here.

引用自 Jean：

People hate children who act realistically in given situations, especially boys. Been a long-time issue with characters over time (Ken in Persona 3, Hope in FFXIII, etc). Nata is a bit selfish and bratty and grows over the course of the game. I feel like your Hunter still gets the spotlight they deserve.... Nata is cute I literally do not know why people hate him so much.

Because he acts like a self-insert of a 25 year old, not a child.