Why Wilds is the worst mainline game so far

[BiGwalt1993]

This post does not relate to the optimisation problems - although they probably won't be fixed anytime soon they are technically fixable, whereas the actual issues with this game are not in my opinion.

Me and my brothers have been playing MH since PS2, every game/every console, so it's hard for me to accept this, given the amount of hype we had building up to release.

Every single aspect of what makes Monster Hunter unique is to some degree diminished from this game.

The hunts are now significantly easier, to the point that any half decent vet could quite easily go the full length of low rank wearing starter armour and without carting - this change alone should be enough for a pause of concern, given that on titles before World, this would be incredibly challenging.

The lax difficulty means that grinding for better equipment or even consumable items is no longer a "necessity", it has become more of a "choice" for fun or fashion reasons.

The core game-play loop has thus changed to the point where you have no longer have a "reason" to hunt anything multiple times- it's like playing Skyrim on easy and you can't level up; Your just plodding along, button mashing.

And honestly, I could have accepted this and been happy if that's all it was - I can make the game artificially harder by wearing low defence armour and I can find a reason to play by helping new players and my friends.

The material drop rates for rare items are now guaranteed and the items needed to upgrade your equipment have been reduced, which makes the above difficulty situation even harder to deal with, as the only "reason" left for me to keep playing is by helping friends and new players - which now complete their builds in far shorter time and hunts, thus diminishing the "need" to grind from the core game-play loop once again.

I won't name everything else but things like the farm, the felyne cooks, the BBQ theme song, gathering hub, the funny weapons/armour/quests, the quest structure and the overall Japanese style/theme are completely gone.

These may seem trivial to some, but when you actually think about what monster hunter is; once you take away the little things, it's just a game where you simply hunt monsters and make weapons and armour from their materials. Furthermore, once you make the "necessity" of this loop redundant and instead turn it more into a "unrewarding choice",
the "reason" has gone and your left with a "Cinematic Button Masher" instead of a "Strategic Rouge-like, Action RPG".

The westernisation of the game didn't need to strip down all these things this far- the game would have done incredibly well on the back of World, which is ultimately the start of the downfall in my opinion.

That's not to say I don't enjoy playing Wilds - I absolutely love playing it, but in my opinion, it's the worst MH mainline game, period.

I just hope the portable team never stray this far from the original idea of Monster Hunter and keep delivering honest titles.

Rant Over.

[MeteoImpact]

Originally posted by liberator65853:

Originally posted by MeteoImpact:

Though in previous games there isn't a 10-15 minute story beat between each 5 minute hunt.

No but it had a ton of annoying cutscenes you couldn't skip and here the story pretty much ends after low rank while in world it went until the end of high rank with more annoying unskipable cutscenes

I skipped all cutscenes in Wilds, monster hunter doesn't need cutscene just give me the details in the quest text

You were smart. I let the dialogue play out, which compared to my friends, added at least 6 hours (SIX HOURS!) to the time it took to get to HR where the game does open up and is fun. That's really why the early experience of the game for me was far and away the worst in the series, outside of maybe crafting carry armor for 2 quests to haul wyvern eggs (though at least there's player agency in doing that). It's pretty messed up that you have to skip over a third of the LR "content" in order for the game's pacing to not be a complete slog.

[Aethen]

Agree on all counts. Fun game because it's MH, but would definitely place it on the lower end compared to other MHs. There's like zero incentive to even explore or engage with the map. I have a gathering set that I don't think I've used once, because there's no reason to. We don't even have rooms so there's no reason to hunt endemics to display. No arena, no hub, etc. And the only thing that isn't a one-and-done is killing dozens and dozens of Arkvelds for decos and weapon parts. Very bare-bones experience.

[Kiririn]

Originally posted by Andi:

Originally posted by Kiririn:

This is revisionism.

If this game was a proper challenge and people were complaining that it was too hard the same people would be saying, "It's always been that way!"

how will you balance the game to make it more challenging? just curious. will you remove attack aiming outright and also get rid of counter moves for the weapons that didn't have them? will you also make potion drinking an animation lock? If capcom implement these changes in the next update, will you be happy?

I only played the beta, so my first-hand experience is limited. However, in regards to difficulty I would start with the following:

• Tune the palico to not be so powerful.
  
• Remove the ability of the seikret to i-frame you to safety.
  
• Prevent healing and sharpening on the seikret while in combat.
  
• Not have the monster map markers spawn immediately. I would build on the tracking system in World.
  
• More HP for the monsters

[[Nelly]]

Originally posted by Jaasrg:

Originally posted by PhantomSlippers:

PS: If anyone plays Portable 3rd, grab that Kelbi Bow for Beginner Mode.

Sure you're not thinking of 3U there?

It was also in 3U but it's best version and I think debut was in Portable 3rd.

[Kousaka Kakeru]

"The westernisation of the game didn't need to strip down all these things this far- the game would have done incredibly well on the back of World, which is ultimately the start of the downfall in my opinion."
I most agree with your post but this is wrong.
You said you played MH since PS2 right? I guess I can start with MH1 even, why not?
So, MH1 was a game. it added monsters, weapons, armors, you name it.
then MH2 was literally the same game but added a few monster weapons and armors
then MH3 was literally the same game as MH2 but again, a few monster weapons and armos, an okay they added few new mechanics to the game and a better endgame.
but the cycle repeats. from MH2 to Gen Ultimate or XX every single game is the same but adding a few things and making some other better.
World got its attention by making MH a brand new game that is not as the previous game with 2 monters and 2 weapon/armors. it added a new whole region a lot of new monster and took back a lot of iconic monster from previous game. I believe MHWorld is the 3rd of 4th MH that added elder dragons and new monster at the same time. For example: MHGenerations vs Gen Ultimate had.....like..........valstrax added? and that's it? can't remember if valstrax was added in the 3ds version. I don't think so. A whole game for just a monster? Come on.
Let's not talk about the graphic huge jump world had. Lobbies were also great. 16 players. 4 quest. Kv siege was the frking fun of my life.
World is the most successful game MH has ever had.

[Alexcunha666]

Originally posted by PhantomSlippers:

Almost fully disagree. Same camp you came from, MH on PS2 and played every title moving forward even those not released in the west. While the game is easier compared to previous titles I'll agree with that one point everything else has been streamlined in terms of quality of life. Every title had a theme for their town, it has nothing to do with "Westernization" You think I enjoy standing still drinking Hi-Potion? Hell no, that ♥♥♥♥ was awful. Having to craft Pickaxes and bug nets because there's always a chance they break? Don't miss it. Random Decorations tables that was tied to your cartridge the moment your system was turned on mitigating you from getting better charms, garbage.

The "degradation" to you, means going back to janky ass Monster Hunter. Stiff movements, insane hitboxes from creatures, farming for materials would take hours, days, or even weeks without things like Investigations or Events that focus on Deco Farming. A lot of the old Monster Hunter formula Is not fun anymore. Replaying freedom unite recently reminds me how far we've come. The series IMO is in a great position right now. Also every expansion takes a year+ so just wait.

Sounds like you didn't like Monster Hunter until now that is made for the most casual player LOL

I swear after World for years I used to think I didn't wanna go back to old games, was even a little hard to get back to GU a few years ago, but man, when I played a lot of MHFU last year, everything just rushed back to where we should have never left. The past few months I had a blast re-living how fun and entertained the full MH experience was.

OFC is not perfect and it has some obnoxious things, like Lao Shan Lung "fight", but everything else feels like its actually me doing stuff, not just the game handing everything for free without even asking. The loop feels so much more like a game, instead of Wilds or Rise, where the loop don't even exist, is just hunt after hunt like a boss rush. Old games you are like 40% of the time fighting, 20% exploring, 20% farming and 20% preparing builds and objects for the hunts. Now it's 90% fighting and 10% build craft.

[Jaasrg]

Originally posted by PhantomSlippers:

Originally posted by Jaasrg:

Sure you're not thinking of 3U there?

It was also in 3U but it's best version and I think debut was in Portable 3rd.

All coatings and high rapid are nice, but not really something to write home about.

[Andi]

Originally posted by Kiririn:

Originally posted by Andi:

how will you balance the game to make it more challenging? just curious. will you remove attack aiming outright and also get rid of counter moves for the weapons that didn't have them? will you also make potion drinking an animation lock? If capcom implement these changes in the next update, will you be happy?

I only played the beta, so my first-hand experience is limited. However, in regards to difficulty I would start with the following:

• Tune the palico to not be so powerful.
  
• Remove the ability of the seikret to i-frame you to safety.
  
• Prevent healing and sharpening on the seikret while in combat.
  
• Not have the monster map markers spawn immediately. I would build on the tracking system in World.
  
• More HP for the monsters

palicos don't seem that powerful to me. also, i didn't know you could iframe to safety with the seikret, but i only started playing a few days ago. for the most part, i think i agree with these changes.

[Fraktal]

Originally posted by Oku:

Wilds is the best-feeling Monster Hunter game to actually play to-date by a long shot. Everything is faster paced and more dynamic and more centered around players having control over what they’re doing at any given moment. I do not care about what weak arguments you have to give for why minor aesthetics changes that have changed with every single release of this franchise “ruins” the game for you.

This lol

[Kiririn]

Originally posted by Andi:

Originally posted by Kiririn:

I only played the beta, so my first-hand experience is limited. However, in regards to difficulty I would start with the following:

• Tune the palico to not be so powerful.
  
• Remove the ability of the seikret to i-frame you to safety.
  
• Prevent healing and sharpening on the seikret while in combat.
  
• Not have the monster map markers spawn immediately. I would build on the tracking system in World.
  
• More HP for the monsters

palicos don't seem that powerful to me. also, i didn't know you could iframe to safety with the seikret, but i only started playing a few days ago. for the most part, i think i agree with these changes.

It's not 100% i-framed but the animation where it picks you up makes you invincible for a good chunk of time.

[Alexcunha666]

Originally posted by Kousaka Kakeru:

"The westernisation of the game didn't need to strip down all these things this far- the game would have done incredibly well on the back of World, which is ultimately the start of the downfall in my opinion."
I most agree with your post but this is wrong.
You said you played MH since PS2 right? I guess I can start with MH1 even, why not?
So, MH1 was a game. it added monsters, weapons, armors, you name it.
then MH2 was literally the same game but added a few monster weapons and armors
then MH3 was literally the same game as MH2 but again, a few monster weapons and armos, an okay they added few new mechanics to the game and a better endgame.
but the cycle repeats. from MH2 to Gen Ultimate or XX every single game is the same but adding a few things and making some other better.
World got its attention by making MH a brand new game that is not as the previous game with 2 monters and 2 weapon/armors. it added a new whole region a lot of new monster and took back a lot of iconic monster from previous game. I believe MHWorld is the 3rd of 4th MH that added elder dragons and new monster at the same time. For example: MHGenerations vs Gen Ultimate had.....like..........valstrax added? and that's it? can't remember if valstrax was added in the 3ds version. I don't think so. A whole game for just a monster? Come on.
Let's not talk about the graphic huge jump world had. Lobbies were also great. 16 players. 4 quest. Kv siege was the frking fun of my life.
World is the most successful game MH has ever had.

Saying the MH3 is the same as MH2 with a few monsters is such a insult to the franchise that is really hard to take anything serious after that...

[liberator65853]

Originally posted by PhantomSlippers:

Originally posted by Jaasrg:

Sure you're not thinking of 3U there?

It was also in 3U but it's best version and I think debut was in Portable 3rd.

It did debut in portable 3rd I believe but portable 3rd was only released in Japan and its 3U version was the first version it was in for the rest of the world. If I am remembering correctly, its been a few years since I played portable 3rd

[dusty]

you play dead by daylight as a survivor so i know you have unchecked anger issues.

[Kousaka Kakeru]

Originally posted by Alexcunha666:

Originally posted by Kousaka Kakeru:

"The westernisation of the game didn't need to strip down all these things this far- the game would have done incredibly well on the back of World, which is ultimately the start of the downfall in my opinion."
I most agree with your post but this is wrong.
You said you played MH since PS2 right? I guess I can start with MH1 even, why not?
So, MH1 was a game. it added monsters, weapons, armors, you name it.
then MH2 was literally the same game but added a few monster weapons and armors
then MH3 was literally the same game as MH2 but again, a few monster weapons and armos, an okay they added few new mechanics to the game and a better endgame.
but the cycle repeats. from MH2 to Gen Ultimate or XX every single game is the same but adding a few things and making some other better.
World got its attention by making MH a brand new game that is not as the previous game with 2 monters and 2 weapon/armors. it added a new whole region a lot of new monster and took back a lot of iconic monster from previous game. I believe MHWorld is the 3rd of 4th MH that added elder dragons and new monster at the same time. For example: MHGenerations vs Gen Ultimate had.....like..........valstrax added? and that's it? can't remember if valstrax was added in the 3ds version. I don't think so. A whole game for just a monster? Come on.
Let's not talk about the graphic huge jump world had. Lobbies were also great. 16 players. 4 quest. Kv siege was the frking fun of my life.
World is the most successful game MH has ever had.

Saying the MH3 is the same as MH2 with a few monsters is such a insult to the franchise that is really hard to take anything serious after that...

Okay, MH3 was different. but I wanted to make it clear. yall think old MH was better but no. you enjoyed it more? yes. world was a downside? not at all.

[liberator65853]

Originally posted by MeteoImpact:

Originally posted by liberator65853:

No but it had a ton of annoying cutscenes you couldn't skip and here the story pretty much ends after low rank while in world it went until the end of high rank with more annoying unskipable cutscenes

I skipped all cutscenes in Wilds, monster hunter doesn't need cutscene just give me the details in the quest text

You were smart. I let the dialogue play out, which compared to my friends, added at least 6 hours (SIX HOURS!) to the time it took to get to HR where the game does open up and is fun. That's really why the early experience of the game for me was far and away the worst in the series, outside of maybe crafting carry armor for 2 quests to haul wyvern eggs (though at least there's player agency in doing that). It's pretty messed up that you have to skip over a third of the LR "content" in order for the game's pacing to not be a complete slog.

For monster hunter games I just like getting to the action and so I skip the cutscenes when I have the choice. One thing I will say I love more about Wilds than other monster hunter games are none of the fetch quest (they are side quest in this and not full quest) I will never miss the wyvern or herbivore egg quest or the coal thing in the volcano of the old games