Heroics (defense mechanics)

[hotmatrixx]

so heroics x4 say:
Attack +10% and defense +100 while active

and x5 says
Attack +30% and defense-increasing effects are negated while active

I notice the "+100" is gone. Someone said in a World thread that Heroics 5 game them +250; BUT
I played around with heroics 5 and when triggered, my defense didnt' seem to go up. I also have iron will x3 on and (I was fighting Gore) Frenzy gave me Defense Down.

I'm not on RN, but will check if this still happens wtih Heroics x4...
But I'm wondering if someone already knows conclusively what's happening? when it says 'defense effects negated' does that actually mean what I am guessing it does... I lose the +100 from level 4,Ironwill can't trigger, either == "Gain 30% attack, but it's RISKY?


___________
I think that's a fairly balanced trade off, if it is, BTW. I'm just curious if that's what actually happening and I can't test it until later. If so, then sadface, but level 4 would be better for me, as I'm going for a defense-oriented build with sustain. (which also happens to have near-max damage stats as well) I wanna make a video about my build and how it works, and I will, later. I will update this with a link if anyone is interested.



I want to reliably be able to know that my 'damage taken' hasn't randomly increased due to defense-down, or frenzy, and I'm now one-shottable.

[AH-1 Cobra]

If you're using heroics, any hit from anything tempered or 4-5* is going to finish you off, so your defenses don't really matter at that point.

[hotmatrixx]

Originally posted by AH-1 Cobra:

If you're using heroics, any hit from anything tempered or 4-5* is going to finish you off, so your defenses don't really matter at that point.

nope. not even close. thanks for your input but you're absolutely wrong. THE ONLY things that can oneshot me at 35% are Gravious Railgun, Rau Dao's railgun, Zuo's nova's (his run attack will if it procc's x2), and basically any hit from Gore if I'm frenzied.
Oh and I think Arkveld's ulti /chain smash. Duno about Mitsune's ulti.

In saying that, if I counterslash them, I survive all but the nova and gravios (because they multihit). YES I survive Rau's railgun, at 35% health, with a direct blast.


This is not the discussion; thank for your opinion, but you haven't added anything constructive.

[hotmatrixx]

OK I managed to test it.
So, for a certainty, you gain the +30% damage, AND you suffer from getting no defense-stat boost, as well, AND you lose the benefits of Iron Will (prevents Defense Down).
So Heroics as a defensive strat is best at level 4.

[Razzle]

Originally posted by hotmatrixx:

OK I managed to test it.
So, for a certainty, you gain the +30% damage, AND you suffer from getting no defense-stat boost, as well, AND you lose the benefits of Iron Will (prevents Defense Down).
So Heroics as a defensive strat is best at level 4.

yeah thats what it says in the text afterall

it may even disable diving blessing and defenderHi

[AH-1 Cobra]

Originally posted by hotmatrixx:

Originally posted by AH-1 Cobra:

If you're using heroics, any hit from anything tempered or 4-5* is going to finish you off, so your defenses don't really matter at that point.

nope. not even close. thanks for your input but you're absolutely wrong. THE ONLY things that can oneshot me at 35% are Gravious Railgun, Rau Dao's railgun, Zuo's nova's (his run attack will if it procc's x2), and basically any hit from Gore if I'm frenzied.
Oh and I think Arkveld's ulti /chain smash. Duno about Mitsune's ulti.

So basically anything worth fighting is going to pwn you off at 35% if it hits you by your own admittance.

You got the rocksteady mantle, you could try that, they recently buffed it.

In saying that, if I counterslash them, I survive all but the nova and gravios (because they multihit). YES I survive Rau's railgun, at 35% health, with a direct blast.

Using a counter move is not taking the hit directly. In what world do you live in that allows you to believe countering a hit = the same as taking the hit?

You surviving a rail gun from a 5* tempered rey dau with 35% HP left is not happening, maybe if you use the rocksteady mantle.

[hotmatrixx]

Originally posted by AH-1 Cobra:

Originally posted by hotmatrixx:

nope. not even close. thanks for your input but you're absolutely wrong. THE ONLY things that can oneshot me at 35% are Gravious Railgun, Rau Dao's railgun, Zuo's nova's (his run attack will if it procc's x2), and basically any hit from Gore if I'm frenzied.
Oh and I think Arkveld's ulti /chain smash. Duno about Mitsune's ulti.

So basically anything worth fighting is going to pwn you off at 35% if it hits you by your own admittance.

You got the rocksteady mantle, you could try that, they recently buffed it.

In saying that, if I counterslash them, I survive all but the nova and gravios (because they multihit). YES I survive Rau's railgun, at 35% health, with a direct blast.

Using a counter move is not taking the hit directly. In what world do you live in that allows you to believe countering a hit = the same as taking the hit?

You surviving a rail gun from a 5* tempered rey dau with 35% HP left is not happening, maybe if you use the rocksteady mantle.

Nothing of what you are saying has anythign to do with the original question.
Thanks again for your input. No, really.

[hotmatrixx]

Originally posted by Razzle:

Originally posted by hotmatrixx:

OK I managed to test it.
So, for a certainty, you gain the +30% damage, AND you suffer from getting no defense-stat boost, as well, AND you lose the benefits of Iron Will (prevents Defense Down).
So Heroics as a defensive strat is best at level 4.

yeah thats what it says in the text afterall

it may even disable diving blessing and defenderHi

I just tested DefHi meal + Divine Blessing, and they both trigger inside Heroics +5
I'll have to find a Guardian Dogosuma to test Defense:Down but Iron Will may still work. The 'defense negated' may refer specifically to it's own +100 buff at Heroics +4. I read somewhere that in one version of MH:? that Heroics +5 also gave you a +250... but that's unverified, and feels pretty over-tuned (but awesome) IMO.

I can also state that iron will does at this point not seem to help against Frenzy, either - Frenzy does increase your damage taken from attack, but it doesn't do it through 'defense down' so Iron will does nothing. Even Antidote does nothing to mitigate the actual damage - just the length of time that you're under the influence of the downsides of Frenzy.


Mostly just staff that's "good to know"

[overmage]

Originally posted by hotmatrixx:

Originally posted by AH-1 Cobra:

So basically anything worth fighting is going to pwn you off at 35% if it hits you by your own admittance.

You got the rocksteady mantle, you could try that, they recently buffed it.



Using a counter move is not taking the hit directly. In what world do you live in that allows you to believe countering a hit = the same as taking the hit?

You surviving a rail gun from a 5* tempered rey dau with 35% HP left is not happening, maybe if you use the rocksteady mantle.

Nothing of what you are saying has anythign to do with the original question.
Thanks again for your input. No, really.

Why are you so rude?

AH-1 Cobra is correct and he was polite. How can using a counter move be considered surviving?
I hope nobody else helps you, your attitude stinks and your original question is nonsensical. Do you even have friends IRL? Keep yapping to yourself in this thread.

[hotmatrixx]

Originally posted by overmage:

Originally posted by hotmatrixx:

Nothing of what you are saying has anythign to do with the original question.
Thanks again for your input. No, really.

Why are you so rude?

AH-1 Cobra is correct and he was polite. How can using a counter move be considered surviving?
I hope nobody else helps you, your attitude stinks and your original question is nonsensical. Do you even have friends IRL? Keep yapping to yourself in this thread.

I'm not being 'rude', at least not trying to be.
Look at the conversation again - I was asking a specific question. Namely,

"What does Heroics +5 mean specifically when it says that "Defence Effects are Negated".
Which defence effects? the +100? does ti include other defense skills, such as defense down or Divine blessing?"

Cobra said that any 4* would kill me at that point that is not anything like an answer to the question. I rebutted him stating that he was incorrect and that the only things that kill me are Ultimate's / Nukes - and I can survive most of them if I can hit a counter.

My rebuttal to him was that
1. he did not answer or address the question
2. my personal experience has demonstrated that he was wrong in the reply he did make.


and as for you defending Cobra... if my attitude stinks, then it's not the intention; I just want people who answer a thread, to come in and contribute to the thread. Cobra, did not; and I am more cynical in my old age, so prompting him to GET on topic (he has never actually addressed it directly) and not reply with non-related 'non-sense' as you stated; seems more on-topic than your misguided attack on me thinly veiled as a defense of another netizen, while you, also, have also managed to not actually address the actual topic or question.

Why is that? Are you the same guy, on an alti, trying to troll or bait me?
Is it working?

More importantly; do you have anything to contribute to the QUESTION IN THE OP?