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I don't like pierce coating and tracer in this game so I don't use both, my favourite craftable fire bow is the rathalos bow
Are you taking charges into account?
Did you charge your attacks?
Did you have affinity and did you proc criticals?
Which coating did you use?
How far were you from the target?
Which side of the target dummy did you attack?
Did you tracer the same spot on the dummy?
Did the dummy have wounds?
Did you activate passive bonuses from your armor?
Only the tracer since it's a requirement of having one.
I didn't check the bow itself, but nothing on the armor. I did the test multiple times actually.
Pierce, because that's what comes with the bow.
Ideal range, of course. For context, this isn't my first rodeo with the bow. It's just the bow got changed a lot this game, in ways that has had me avoiding it (basically, because i thought we were supposed to use tracer + coatings for ideal DPS).
Front
Yes.
Blew them off every time to reset the test to rule that out.
Nope
Hopefully they fix since we're kinda giving up +30% on our current attack not using power coating so if these shots don't hit multiple times our dmg becomes doo doo.
Bow is so strong to begin with, with you being basically invincible with the dodge, I do not even bother most of the times with the coatings.
I haven't used the bow much this game, so I'm curious what your insights are as someone who appears to use it a bit more. Personally I've felt like the tracer felt too much like trying to get your essence on the insect glaive, which is fine for the glaive, especially since it lasts a while, but trying to consistently get that tracer where you want it as well as actually hitting the tracer with your arrows is really rough, and to try to do it the entire fight while trying to figure out when to best apply your coatings makes me feel like the bow is just unfun anymore, because it became the same hassle that was the IG when it first came out (mounting was great, but essence sucked and you didn't have a second stick to aim with while moving). And this is with a mouse and keyboard, i can't even imagine what it's like with a controller. Every bow user that joins when i'm using my SnS seems to have a different style on how they play. Like, I get that they meant to nerf the tracer, but it still feels annoyingly mandatory. I still haven't figured out how it fits into everything, yet.
What's your thoughts, and on the new moves as well? Dragon Piercer feels a whole lot better since you now can turn the whole way around, but I haven't really used the arc shot stuff yet. How're you handling all this? Is it applying to more than just the piercing? I'm wondering if this was intentional that the coatings become effectively (but not actually, just the arrows get nerfed to output the same damage) disabled when hitting the tracer. I wonder if it's intended only for when the monster is downed.
I haven't noticed the dodge being any better than it was before unless i'm missing something. I'm considering dropping the coatings, at least the pierce since there seems to be something weird going on with it. I'm still not too fond of the tracer, though if I don't have to play with the coatings it's not as bad but i still don't like it.
Sorry, i didn't see this before. To be clear this test used the Monster Hunter World/Monster Hunter Rise style bow charging in it's account: 3 shots fired in succession without cooldown (so first shot is no charge, then 1 charge, then max charge), since this is your "Bread 'n' Butter combo" when "monster is not down."
Somehow i missed your response. I noticed when not using the tracer the pierce behaves normally, but under ideal (that is, unrealistic) conditions i get my best DPS with no coating and tracer. I'm starting to think the tracer is for when it's "downed" and the tracking of the tracer is to deal with the monster getting back up so you don't miss as many shots.
Things that don't work together:
- Thousand Dragons and Tracer: FIrst hit of any arrow instantly destroys the Tracer
- Thousand Dragons and Pierce Coating: Double the hits, but exactly half the damage (The 50% damage reduction is applied to all 6 primary hits too, instead of only to the secondary hits)
- Tracers and Piercing: Any arrow that hits the tracer is destroyed before it can hit a second time and on top the primary hit already gets a 50% damage reduction
Things that do work together unexpectedly well:
- Dragon Piercer and Pierce Coating: Double the hits for double the damage (Normal damage reduction of Pierce Coating is not applied to any Dragon Piercer hits!)
- Special Ammo, Piercing and Ballistics decorations plus Pierce Coating: All of them boost Dragon Piecer, to the point where a Dragon Piercer even against the training dummy (side) hits for 500+, and for about 1k+ against Jin Dahaad with Strange Kut-Ku Stave. (And that is WITHOUT WEX or any other damage or crit boosting armor decorations!)
Normal or even Power shots are essentially pointless...
So, based on what you say next, here, i assume it's the tracer i drop not the piercing coatings?
But arc shot... I never seem to feel like i'm out of coatings. I hit the bar fills up faster than i'm emptying it. How are you emptying it?
Weird, my hit count is up for pierce coating. Destroying the arrow seems bugged, but i wonder if it's not the same thing that thousand dragons and pierce coating does: it just cuts off the damage rather than destroying the arrow. That would be consistent with low damage high hit count that i'm seeing.
I think this is a legacy thing, that is to say it's always worked like this so they won't "fix" what isn't broken.
Are we back to the days of spamming dragon piercer (but it actually working) with this setup, then?
So tracer isn't the thing i was expecting it to be. Instead of focusing on tracer, i should play normally (like in previous games) and apply tracer when using power or status coatings?
Absolutely. And pair it with both Flayer and Part Breaker for maximum effect. It even got more extreme, as a single Dragon Piercer can now potentially cause, pierce and pop multiple wounds per shot, boosting damage even further.
The "Meta" crit build with Weakness Exploit doesn't work so well, as none of the 3 top decorations on the Bow actually boost critical damage in the least.
Tracer also suffers from a different design flaw - the arrow is much slower than a Dragon Piecer, so you will mostly miss the intended weak spots anyway, and that's instantly 1/3rd of the focus bar gone down the drain.
I'm either doing something wrong or reading something wrong, because i swear no matter what I do that bar does not empty. Every time i simply hit any shot the bar gains, and it gains faster than it looses.
Time for a short rant: There's M.E.T.A. (Most Effective Technique Available) and meta- (the prefix). In general, in games, the M.E.T.A. is the only thing a community as a whole understands, and it's usually worth throwing out beause it works 90% of the time but requires absolutely no understanding of the game, isn't much fun, and often isn't actually the most effective technique available (it's just what everyone wants to think it is). meta-, the prefix, however is to go beyond the face value (M.E.T.A., ironically enough) and to understand the inner workings and the big picture alike, rather than wrote memorization of a formula. The sad thing is, we inherently know the prefix is something to be lauded and praised, but almost every community confuses it with the acronym and starts praising braindead stupidity as enlightenment. The mask slips every time something major changes, but it never completely falls off. Right now, i'd say this is true of the bow.
Yeah, i noticed. Once i fired the tracer, i'd just fire until the tracer was gone. In practice, if i hit a weak spot with the tracer, it'd be the only shot that hit. I felt like those homing arrows were slower or something, because they'd hit less than me shooting normally. In addition to trying to keep the tracer on, it felt like i was just never hitting what i wanted to with the tracer or even hitting the tracer once i got the arrows in. This especially stood out with nerscylla.
The only situation where it's useful is when you consistently need to hit a difficult spot. Or maybe if you get a paralyze when you are out of stamina. Then you can fire a tracer and just spam quick shot -> power shot -> power volley without running out of stamina (you do need Con 5 & Surge 3 for this to work).
But, let's dive in shall we, and please correct me if I'm wrong. To make it easy I will assume a naked build and no items were used:
No coatings:
3 shots plain: 6 hits, 106dmg
3 plain shots on tracer: 9 hits, 180dmg
Makes sense so far. 3 plain shots are charge 1 (1 hit), 2 (2hits) and finally 3 (3 hits). All shots after the tracer are automatically fired at charge 3. So that variation would have 3 level 3 shots (3x3 hits). Plus it should also have dealt more damage per individual arrow.
Pierce coatings:
3 shots coated: 17 hits, 120dmg
3 coated shots on tracer: 9 hits, 100 dmg
Same reasoning for charge levels applies as above (6 arrows & 9 arrows). The reason the first one has 17 hits, is because those arrows actually pierces. The pierce arrows that hit the tracer didn't pierce, hence the fewer hits. The reason that the damage is still comparable is because the arrows fired at the tracer had a higher charge level. If you fire the pierce coatings at charge 3 for an extended duration you will see the difference grow.
Unless...the tracer also negates the halved motion values of Pierce Coatings like I believe Dragon Piercer does. Something worth testing perhaps.
Well there's the big kicker with the tracer: the tracer gives you charge 3, so players hearing this are mislead into thinking that they need a tracer to do max DPS (no charging but getting max charged shots). In practice this is far from the truth: you need to hit the ideal target with the tracer, and on top of that hit the tracer (but only with the right type of arrows) to get that, which is way easier on paper.
After this thread, in retrospect, i think they accomplished their goal of nerfing the tracer, but now it's near useless. Which is probably a good thing. The difficulty of applying the on-paper tracer to reality makes it seem like the ideal bow combo is something which in reality is quite infuriating to pull off in practice. And before this thread, i, someone who used the bow for at least 3 games straight, was cussing at the screen how terribly the tracer has ruined the bow by making it frustrating. Would it be fair to say most of us are in agreement then that the tracer's existence should've been limited to the focus mode combo?
If he wasn't so slow....