MHWILDS is First MH Game with 0 Elder Dragon thus far.

[Daryl]

Wilds, suprisingly didnt have any Elder Dragon in the base game.
You'd think that Arkveld would be but it isnt.
its classified as "Extinct Species"

Jin Dahaad is also suprisingly not an elder dragon given its size, and way of manipulating its surroundings and freezing everything it touches. its classified as "Leviathan"

and finally,

Zoh Shia is a "Construct" monster.


so yeah... aint that a doozy
No elder dragons yet.

[Soji]

If no elder dragons means we won't have yet another MH with Teostra/kushala/chameleos I'm completely ok with that.

[Daryl]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Gochisosama:

Jin Dahaad is an elder dragon mate. It looks BDSM as f*ck, but it's an elder dragon nonetheless.
But yeah, i get your point, everybody wants Chameleos, Kushala Daora, Nergigante and Teostra.
Also, not an elder dragon, but Bazelgeuse please!
No Kirin, please. Ultimate cancer that one.

i want Gogmazios and other Elders from other games that havent reappeared.

[kl250d]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von AlbinoFrog:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von kl250d:

The title is only really given to monsters that have destroyed, or attempted to destroy, entire civilizations. Zoh Shia might be as strong as a Black Dragon considering how much energy it had stored, but it never did anything with it and we'll never know what it is capable of unless Capcom revives the species like they did with Xeno'jiiva and Safi'jiiva. As far as the rest of the Monster Hutner world is concerned there was never even a Zoh Shia in the first place.

Just based off of this though, didnt the story confirm or at least heavily imply that zoh shia was the cause of the destruction of their civilization? as they created it when war reached their doorstep to try to defend themselves but it brought about their own destruction?

thats at least what i was getting from the story which is why i also figured thats why we dont get any zoh shia armour in the game, cause itd be silly (at least itd feel that way) to have a low rank black dragon and have its gear

[Cadaver]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von kl250d:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von AlbinoFrog:

Just based off of this though, didnt the story confirm or at least heavily imply that zoh shia was the cause of the destruction of their civilization? as they created it when war reached their doorstep to try to defend themselves but it brought about their own destruction?

thats at least what i was getting from the story which is why i also figured thats why we dont get any zoh shia armour in the game, cause itd be silly (at least itd feel that way) to have a low rank black dragon and have its gear

Yup, Zoh Shia is the calamity that wiped out the Wyverian civilisation as well as the people it was made to combat.

It's the rreason why the guild authroized destroying the entire ecosystem to prevent it from awakening because they were that scared of it

[SolusiRadikal]

MH Wild is about dealing with both monster and environment that used to be fully controlled by a MAN....

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cadaver:

Yup, Zoh Shia is the calamity that wiped out the Wyverian civilisation as well as the people it was made to combat.

It's not Zoh Shia i think, but it's more of a "what Zoh Shia Evolve into"

If you carefully seen it's final form, you know what it's look like

[Akip Xof]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von AlbinoFrog:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von kl250d:

im not sure how prevalent constructs are in the monster hunter series, but is there anything that stops something from being/having the potential to be a black dragon just because it was created? like how genetically modified corn is still corn, zoh shia is just gm black dragon?

As far as I understood it, the title of Black Dragon in universe was less of a title of strength/appearance but a title of fear. They were given their status of Black Dragon because of the destructive power they had showcased in the past. Not every monster that has the strength of a Black Dragon is considered a Black Dragon. For example, Safi'jiiva is implied to be roughly equal in strength to Fatalis, but Safi is not a Black Dragon (In fact, it is the only monster with the title of Red Dragon). Also, not every Black Dragon is even black. White and Crimson Fatalis are considered to be Black Dragons. The title is only really given to monsters that have destroyed, or attempted to destroy, entire civilizations. Zoh Shia might be as strong as a Black Dragon considering how much energy it had stored, but it never did anything with it and we'll never know what it is capable of unless Capcom revives the species like they did with Xeno'jiiva and Safi'jiiva. As far as the rest of the Monster Hutner world is concerned there was never even a Zoh Shia in the first place.

Now mechanically speaking from the players perspective it would probably be at least an Elder Dragon. The biggest thing though (in universe) is that Elder Dragons can only be classified as Elder Dragons when they CAN'T be classified as anything else. That's why monsters like Yama Tsukami are classified as elder dragons despite them being considerably weaker than other Elder Dragons like Zorah Magdaros or Jhen Mohran. Yama can't be classified as anything else so he has to be an Elder Dragon. Zoh Shia CAN be classified as something else though so he HAS to be classified as that thing by the guild. That alone is half the reason monsters like Savage Devilljho and Akantor can't be classified as elder dragons despite their overwhelming power. This is also the reason Jin Dahaad isn't an Elder Dragon in the logbook. Jin is definitely powerful enough seeing as he can directly change the environment around him, but since he can be classified as a leviathan the guild can't classify him as an Elder Dragon. It's a weird dichotomy between what makes sense mechanically to the player (because to us it's obvious that the giant dragon that can create blizzards should be an Elder Dragon) and what is actually true in universe/lore wise.

All of this becomes 10x more confusing when you factor in Gore Magala because for some reason Capcom wanted to make him Schrödinger's Elder Dragon and give him the "Demi Elder Dragon" or "Unknown" (depending on the language) classification. He is the only monster in the entire series in this classification and Capcom refused to ever clarify. And what makes Gore Magala even more confusing is that its adult version, Shagaru Magala, is actually classified as an Elder Dragon. So the adult is an Elder Dragon, but the baby version of the exact same creature is not. But then in World there was Xeno'jiiva and Safi'fiiva (again, the baby and adult version of the exact same creature) but this time both the baby and the adult versions are Elder Dragons. So sometimes a baby Elder Dragon is still an Elder Dragon and sometimes its not, for some reason. There is no in-game explanation for why the guild would do it this way and Capcom never clarified. Gore Magala can be captured by the player which is presumably why it isn't considered to be an Elder Dragon, but that is purely gameplay and has no relation to the actual lore.

Zoh Shia is literally stated to be the sole reason for the total destruction of the ancient civilization referenced in the game. Thats an entire civilization that was factually wiped off the planet due to it in particular.

Its a black dragon. The game flat out tells you thats the classification as youre fighting it. Its a man made black dragon.

Editing to add; yes, black dragon isnt an actual classification, dangerous first class monster is the actual classification, but its irrelevant to the point.

[Daryl]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Akip Xof:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von AlbinoFrog:

As far as I understood it, the title of Black Dragon in universe was less of a title of strength/appearance but a title of fear. They were given their status of Black Dragon because of the destructive power they had showcased in the past. Not every monster that has the strength of a Black Dragon is considered a Black Dragon. For example, Safi'jiiva is implied to be roughly equal in strength to Fatalis, but Safi is not a Black Dragon (In fact, it is the only monster with the title of Red Dragon). Also, not every Black Dragon is even black. White and Crimson Fatalis are considered to be Black Dragons. The title is only really given to monsters that have destroyed, or attempted to destroy, entire civilizations. Zoh Shia might be as strong as a Black Dragon considering how much energy it had stored, but it never did anything with it and we'll never know what it is capable of unless Capcom revives the species like they did with Xeno'jiiva and Safi'jiiva. As far as the rest of the Monster Hutner world is concerned there was never even a Zoh Shia in the first place.

Now mechanically speaking from the players perspective it would probably be at least an Elder Dragon. The biggest thing though (in universe) is that Elder Dragons can only be classified as Elder Dragons when they CAN'T be classified as anything else. That's why monsters like Yama Tsukami are classified as elder dragons despite them being considerably weaker than other Elder Dragons like Zorah Magdaros or Jhen Mohran. Yama can't be classified as anything else so he has to be an Elder Dragon. Zoh Shia CAN be classified as something else though so he HAS to be classified as that thing by the guild. That alone is half the reason monsters like Savage Devilljho and Akantor can't be classified as elder dragons despite their overwhelming power. This is also the reason Jin Dahaad isn't an Elder Dragon in the logbook. Jin is definitely powerful enough seeing as he can directly change the environment around him, but since he can be classified as a leviathan the guild can't classify him as an Elder Dragon. It's a weird dichotomy between what makes sense mechanically to the player (because to us it's obvious that the giant dragon that can create blizzards should be an Elder Dragon) and what is actually true in universe/lore wise.

All of this becomes 10x more confusing when you factor in Gore Magala because for some reason Capcom wanted to make him Schrödinger's Elder Dragon and give him the "Demi Elder Dragon" or "Unknown" (depending on the language) classification. He is the only monster in the entire series in this classification and Capcom refused to ever clarify. And what makes Gore Magala even more confusing is that its adult version, Shagaru Magala, is actually classified as an Elder Dragon. So the adult is an Elder Dragon, but the baby version of the exact same creature is not. But then in World there was Xeno'jiiva and Safi'fiiva (again, the baby and adult version of the exact same creature) but this time both the baby and the adult versions are Elder Dragons. So sometimes a baby Elder Dragon is still an Elder Dragon and sometimes its not, for some reason. There is no in-game explanation for why the guild would do it this way and Capcom never clarified. Gore Magala can be captured by the player which is presumably why it isn't considered to be an Elder Dragon, but that is purely gameplay and has no relation to the actual lore.

Zoh Shia is literally stated to be the sole reason for the total destruction of the ancient civilization referenced in the game. Thats an entire civilization that was factually wiped off the planet due to it in particular.

Its a black dragon. The game flat out tells you thats the classification as youre fighting it. Its a man made black dragon.

Editing to add; yes, black dragon isnt an actual classification, dangerous first class monster is the actual classification, but its irrelevant to the point.

Compared to most black dragons,
Zoh Shia seems .... weak
but i mean gamewise so far maybe the Zoh Shia we face is but one of the infant ones
that hasnt been supercharged

[MrLuckless]

Suddenly Rise's launch doesn't feel as barebones when even it had elder dragons and apex monsters to fight until Sunbreak came out.

[parent child bowl]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von MrLuckless:

Suddenly Rise's launch doesn't feel as barebones when even it had elder dragons and apex monsters to fight until Sunbreak came out.

Sorry, but apex monsters were just utter garbage. It also really isn't fun to fight the same elder dragons every freaking time.

Nu Udra seems more elder dragon than elder dragons just because it isn't the same crap over and over again.

[Malakim]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von parent child bowl:

Nu Udra seems more elder dragon than elder dragons just because it isn't the same crap over and over again.

Honestly one of the things i love about wilds. It has a very varied roster of monsters. Where world had Bird, 7 legally distinct t-rex clones and 23 varieties of Rathalos at the start, this one has a much wider selection.

[Zu]

The lore of this series is a complete mess ever since they tried to expand upon it only to end up making it dumber and dumber with additional material such as Stories and movies.

Like just by definition Jin should be an elder dragon because it fits all the criterias but nooo gotta call it a levianthan because it it needs more representation so we are going to ignore lore just to call it that.

[Leown]

Im kinda hoping we get more Leviathans, constructs, some of the other Apex monster favorites and some sprinkles of elder dragons in there. What i really want to see is them bring in more giant bug monsters like the Vespoid queen.

Elder dragons are fun but i like variety as well.

[parent child bowl]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zu:

The lore of this series is a complete mess ever since they tried to expand upon it only to end up making it dumber and dumber with additional material such as Stories and movies.

Like just by definition Jin should be an elder dragon because it fits all the criterias but nooo gotta call it a levianthan because it it needs more representation so we are going to ignore lore just to call it that.

As someone above already said, Jin Dahaad can be classified as a Leviathan. That's why it is not an elder dragon.

Not being able to be classified as anything else is the only criterium to be classified as an elder dragon. Classifying it as an elder dragon would be ignoring lore.

[parent child bowl]

Gore Magala is classified as an elder dragon in Hunter's Enciclopedia 4. There is no lore reason for it to be anything else.

[Bono my tyres are gone]

I pray everyday for Chameleos and Valstrax