Embrace frame gen. It really does make all the difference.

[ChubbiChibbai]

I'm on a 3090 and struggling to maintain a locked 60 fps. I want to play at 4K without reducing too many settings as the game really starts to look rough.

I can't use DLSS frame gen but i switched over to FSR with quality upscale and frame gen. Locked in game to 30 fps which gives me a 60fps output and honestly..... it's actually fine. I'm not noticing any input lag.

Not sure if it helps but i also turn Nvidia reflex OFF as it's caused issues for me with framegen.

So while yea - the idea of 'fake frames' might put some people off. At least try it and see how you feel. It made a huge difference for me.

Try it if you are still having performance issues. Might not work for everyone but after feeling frustrated the last few days this was the thing that finally got me enjoying the game.

[Moonwitch]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Oku:

Framegen is cool if you are a) already consistently above 60fps minimum, and b) not playing any sort of game where frame-window timing is important. Fake frames have no input on them. If you're getting 60fps native and 90fps framegen, the game is still operating on 60fps timings, so things like Counterstrike and Mobas run in to issues where where having a higher framerate than the game actually is running at messes with input reactions. And this also means that if you're running at a lower framerate natively, then framegen is going to have much longer timings for its fake frames which causes severe ghosting and artifacting.

It's not a magic bullet to make your performance better, it's a feature that takes already good performance and makes it seem better than it actually is to the human eye.

Frame gen becomes super cool when you're already at let's say 110+ fps want wanting to hit your monitor's max refresh rate of either 165 Hz or 240 Hz. Then you switch that feature on and experience greatness.

[Moonwitch]

Początkowo opublikowane przez DuckyAtSea:

No. I don't want AI fake frames in my video games. Ever.

If a game truly NEEDS that to run properly, then it's a terrible game.

Thank you!

[Baffman]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Moonwitch:

Frame gen becomes super cool when you're already at let's say 110+ fps want wanting to hit your monitor's max refresh rate of either 165 Hz or 240 Hz. Then you switch that feature on and experience greatness.

Completely agree, that's what it should be used for and Capcom should absolutely be blamed for using it as a crutch.
However, I capped the FPS to 40 and I find it very playable with framegen on.
With vsync disabled + reflex on the latency is not that big of a deal, unless you're playing with mouse and keyboard.
Again, not justifying Capcom here, but in my experience (at least in this game) framegen is not that bad at low fps.

[BEEP!]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Moonwitch:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Oku:

Framegen is cool if you are a) already consistently above 60fps minimum, and b) not playing any sort of game where frame-window timing is important. Fake frames have no input on them. If you're getting 60fps native and 90fps framegen, the game is still operating on 60fps timings, so things like Counterstrike and Mobas run in to issues where where having a higher framerate than the game actually is running at messes with input reactions. And this also means that if you're running at a lower framerate natively, then framegen is going to have much longer timings for its fake frames which causes severe ghosting and artifacting.

It's not a magic bullet to make your performance better, it's a feature that takes already good performance and makes it seem better than it actually is to the human eye.

Frame gen becomes super cool when you're already at let's say 110+ fps want wanting to hit your monitor's max refresh rate of either 165 Hz or 240 Hz. Then you switch that feature on and experience greatness.

O god when you already have such a high base FPS it's like black magic at that point lol.

[Helmic]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ChubbiChibbai:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Widgit:

Frame generation is icing, not cake. If you don't have a cake you shouldn't be happy just eating icing.

What do you mean by that?
I can get the game looking visually how i want it and get it to run at a solid 60fps now. How is that a bad thing.

Also i'm not saying this is good optimisation. I'm just saying try it if you aren't hitting a smooth fps.

It's a pretty straightforward metaphor. Freamgen is a nice-to-have, but isn't the actual base of the experience. If the game isn't running at a playable framerate without framegen, then it won't become playable *with* framegen, becuase hte extra frames are purely cosmetic. So having framegen turned on when you don't have the "cake" to put it on is going to be an unplesant experience.

I can break this down a bit further since just saying "it adds latency" without explaining is gonna be confusing, so bear with me explaining some obvious stuff up front. Let's imagine a simple reflex game, the screen will turn comlpetely red on a randomly chosen frame and then you want to click to turn hte screen blue as fast as possible. We're going to futher simplify this by pretending we're on a monitor with a perfect 0 ms response time, we're not factoring in the input latency of any devices, we just want to focus on framerate.

60 FPS is 16.66 ms per frame, 30 FPS is 33.33 ms per frame, and so on. So if you see a a red flash on the screen for 1 frame at 30 FPS, it can take up to 30.33 ms from when you hit the button to when you actually see your input turn the screen blue. If you're playing at 60 FPS, however, the maximum delay can only be 16.66 ms per frame, so *just* by increasing the FPS we have halved our worst case senario for input latency.

Now, framegen obviously puts out fake frames, it can't *really* react to your inputs. So if we had a theoretically perfect framgen implementation, we could have our test logically running at 30 FPS but appearing to run at 60 FPS. But we're still constricted by the real frames to actually respond to our inputs, so even though the neat little animation playing on the screen might look as though it's running at 60 FPS, our input delay worst case is still 33.33 ms per frame isntead of 16.66 ms per frame, right? Simple enough.

"But wait, I can't run the test at 60 FPS, so what harm is there in having the nicer animation?" Good question. In reality ,we don't have a perfect framegen implementation that *actually* just doubles the FPS. Instead, framegen, in order to create in-between frames for our game, has to have access to *both* the current frame *and* the previous frame, and then spend some amount of time processing both to get the resulting in-between frame. So we're always going to be at a minimum 1 frame behind what the game has *actually* put out, because in order for that fake frame to be displayed the game would have to have already made the next frame and has to wait for the fake frame's turn to end.

Now, in addition to this, the image generation itself actually takes up resources and isn't instant, so the AI needs to sit there "thinking" after it's gotten the next frame. And this causes your *actual* framerate to drop, so instead of doubling from 30 FPS to 60 FPS, you might actually be going down to 25 FPS and then doubling that to 50 FPS, so while the FPS is increased the logical framerate is lower.

So when you go to play agame, especially something sensitive like a shooter (ie, playing a ranged weapon in Monster Hunter), it can feel *weird* seeing a smooth display on your screen but then notice it takes longer for you to move your cursor when you aim, weirdly sluggish, as though you were playing at 30 FPS. That in itself can be disorienting.

And then, finally and perhaps most dramatically, AI is prone to hallucinations. The more you ask an AI to fill in the gaps, the more room you're giving it to hallucinate. At a higher framerate, the difference between two frames is quite small, and so the AI isn't really given much room to mess things up, and so the final result tends to be fine. But at a low framerate, the AI is being given a lot more time to make things up, and this results in what's called "ghosting" - monsters spawn two jaws, your sword on your back has a forked blade all of a sudden, the gears in the furnace change into a weird oblong shape. They pop in and out every other frame in a flickering effect as the AI generated frames alternate with the real ones, and it's just weird things that shouldn't be there that can be viscerally upsetting, characters spawn an extra ghost finger for a split second.

And that's worse visually than just playing at a lower resolution without framegen, framegen isn't helpful if it is not *accurate* and if you're using framegen to go from 20 FPS to 30 FPS then you're likely to run into these kidns of issues on top of the game feeling sluggish. It would genuinely be better to just suffer at 20 FPS where what you see on screen is actually there and you're not getting extra input latency on top of what's already there from the low framerate.

To give a real world number, 15 ms is a typical expected added latency from adding framegen, which can spike up to 100 ms if you hit your display's refresh rate limit. A bad TV can have around 80-ish ms, so framegen can at points make even a nice gaming monitor feel like a bad TV, and it can make a bad TV utterly insufferable. Whether that 15 ms is worth it is going to vary by game. Monster Hunter is in an awkward spot for framegen even if the game didn't perform so poorly, because it's not an esports title where any amount of extra delay is completely unacceptable and will make you lose against people who have better equipment, but it's also not a chill exploration game with only mild action elements. There's parries, dodges with i-frames, aiming slingers and guns and bows, there's a lot of stuff that is reliant on skilled input and the series as a whole can get quite difficult and demanding (though Wilds so far seems quite a bit easier, oh well), but it's not demading *enough* to where people can just say "this is never OK." It's enough to tempt peopel to try it and then have them get frustrated when it messes something up, and of course it's in this sweet spot where people on the internet will argue about it.

In framegen's defense, though, it's really nice for games that have an arbitrary FPS lock, like emulated games or really bad PC ports. If Elden Ring is already locked at 60 FPS no mater what, then it's not very hard to get it to run at 120 FPS with framegen for a much more fluid look without it seriously impacting the feel of the game. Old school MH games were locked at 30 FPS and they look dramatically better running at 60 FPS - or even 120 FPS with multi-framegen, because you're not even close to using your system's full resources to run the game.

[OG.UA SAPUTRA]

Początkowo opublikowane przez GingerAvenger:

I force DLSS 4.0 in the Nvidia app for my 3060 12 gb card and it made a huge difference. Easy 60+ fps.

how do you do this ? i dont see the option to force dlss 4

[ChubbiChibbai]

Początkowo opublikowane przez OG.UA SAPUTRA:

Początkowo opublikowane przez GingerAvenger:

I force DLSS 4.0 in the Nvidia app for my 3060 12 gb card and it made a huge difference. Easy 60+ fps.

how do you do this ? i dont see the option to force dlss 4

Some say you have to re-install the Nvidia app.
I had to manually add MHW and then restart the app.

Then go to the MHW in the app and down to driver settings and set it there. Just choose 'latest'

[Oku]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ^..^ | ViralOmega:

more generated frames, more input latency. no thanks

Generated frames don't do anything to input latency, all it does is insert generated frames in between 2 native frames on the render pipeline on your display. If you're getting a native 60fps and 90fps with framegen, then the game will continue to run at 60fps natively and you will have the exact same input latency as you have on the game running at 60fps natively.

No input on fake frames is only an issue in games where individual frames and high reaction time matter, such as twitch shooters and MOBAs. On a game like Monster Hunter it doesn't matter that much.

[BEEP!]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Oku:

Początkowo opublikowane przez ^..^ | ViralOmega:

more generated frames, more input latency. no thanks

Generated frames don't do anything to input latency, all it does is insert generated frames in between 2 native frames on the render pipeline on your display. If you're getting a native 60fps and 90fps with framegen, then the game will continue to run at 60fps natively and you will have the exact same input latency as you have on the game running at 60fps natively.

No input on fake frames is only an issue in games where individual frames and high reaction time matter, such as twitch shooters and MOBAs. On a game like Monster Hunter it doesn't matter that much.

That's not how it works dude framegen always adds more input delay if your using it at 60FPs it'l feel around 50-55FPS.
And the lower you go the worse the input delay is.
You can literally google this stuff and find a instant answer to see your wrong.

And you literally contradict yourself in the same post.

Read the users Helmic post above they explain it perfectly.

[dalamar_tm]

Im using a 3090 and it got me 120 fps using fsr frame gen but it blacks out my V-Sync so I end up with Screen tearing so bad , so kinda screwed either way.

[BEEP!]

Początkowo opublikowane przez dalamar_tm:

Im using a 3090 and it got me 120 fps using fsr frame gen but it blacks out my V-Sync so I end up with Screen tearing so bad , so kinda screwed either way.

Do you not have a Free-sync or G-sync monitor?

[Widgit]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ChubbiChibbai:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Widgit:

Frame generation is icing, not cake. If you don't have a cake you shouldn't be happy just eating icing.

What do you mean by that?
I can get the game looking visually how i want it and get it to run at a solid 60fps now. How is that a bad thing.

Also i'm not saying this is good optimisation. I'm just saying try it if you aren't hitting a smooth fps.

I mean that anyone who isn't already getting 60 fps baseline should not even consider using frame generation as a solution. Did you know frame generation comes with an additional performance cost? You're basically turning on input lag and hiding the lag with AI generated frames. It is not a solution and, while visually it may look better, it will play worse. That's why I say it's "icing on the cake". You need 60 fps or more without frame generation to justify using it in the first place. Which also means you need a monitor that supports refresh rates beyond 60hz to make it worth using. Using it before that is just making things worse. (while creating an illusion to make things appear better)

[dalamar_tm]

Początkowo opublikowane przez 1080Puktra:

Początkowo opublikowane przez dalamar_tm:

Im using a 3090 and it got me 120 fps using fsr frame gen but it blacks out my V-Sync so I end up with Screen tearing so bad , so kinda screwed either way.

Do you not have a Free-sync or G-sync monitor?

No I am playing on a Samsung 65 inch Oled S90C

[BEEP!]

Początkowo opublikowane przez dalamar_tm:

Początkowo opublikowane przez 1080Puktra:

Do you not have a Free-sync or G-sync monitor?

No I am playing on a Samsung 65 inch Oled S90C

Well shoot hmm I don't know much about NVIDIA software on AMD there's a setting called Radeon Enhanced Sync does NVIDIA have something like that or maybe a force Vsync on the driver side of things.

[Oku]

Początkowo opublikowane przez 1080Puktra:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Oku:

Generated frames don't do anything to input latency, all it does is insert generated frames in between 2 native frames on the render pipeline on your display. If you're getting a native 60fps and 90fps with framegen, then the game will continue to run at 60fps natively and you will have the exact same input latency as you have on the game running at 60fps natively.

No input on fake frames is only an issue in games where individual frames and high reaction time matter, such as twitch shooters and MOBAs. On a game like Monster Hunter it doesn't matter that much.

That's not how it works dude framegen always adds more input delay if your using it at 60FPs it'l feel around 50-55FPS.
And the lower you go the worse the input delay is.

Alright I was giving the simplified non-nuanced version but if you want to get technical then I'll get technical with you.

Buckle the ♥♥♥♥ up.

There is a very slight end-to-end increase in input latency created by the fact that frame generation requires processing time to generate frames. This is a flat increase of about 10ms that gets added to the total processing time of every single step of the input-to-visible effect on screen. This coincides with about the same delay between frames on native resolution that generated frames sit between. You click your mouse, the input gets sent, the input is processed, the processed input is sent to the game, the game interprets the input, the interpreted input gets sent to the renderer, the game renders frames, your GPU generates a frame based off the native frames sent to it, the game renders more frames, you see these frames on your screen. This total process is what encompasses end-to-end input latency, but this tiny blip is virtually imperceptible to the overwhelmingly vast majority of people, and even with this slight increase in end-to-end latency, it's still less than half the average total latency that most consoles have (around 40-50ms total end to end latency on PC with frame gen vs 90ms on consoles based on DigitalFoundry testing, and this is fairly high latency as well, with a solid system and good user interface hardware you'll probably see significantly lower end-to-end latency).

So in summary, no, turning on framegen is not going to increase your input latency in any meaningful way outside of two scenarios: your native framerate is so low that the fake frames are on screen for long enough for inputs made on those frames to be visibly delayed to the next natively rendered frame, in which case your input hasnt had its delay increased, it's exactly as responsive as the natively rendered game at that framerate would be, or you are exceed your monitor's refresh rate, at which point input latency skyrockets because it's trying to buffer so many fake frames the system can't keep up.

If you're already getting good performance and are not hitting your monitor's refresh rate, then turn on Framegen. There is literally no downside to it. You will simply get a smoother visual experience. I can guarantee you that 10ms of increased end-to-end input latency is not something you will ever notice and you do not play at a professional competitive level in twitch shooters like CS or Valorant or MOBAs like DOTA2 or League of Legends high enough for that input delay to mean anything for you.

If you're getting ♥♥♥♥♥♥ performance, then all Framegen will do for you is give you more ♥♥♥♥♥♥ frames, so don't turn it on.

If you're at your monitor's refresh rate, then you literally cannot display a higher framerate anyway, so don't turn it on or it WILL increase your input latency by a noticeable amount.