Remove Denuvo from the game

[AlastairKD]

We don't need some sub-par anti-piracy software that will get cracked in less than a month that does nothing but tank everyones frames. Just remove it from the game and put something better in its place, the people who pirate the game were never going to buy it anyway.

[space]

nobody is doing denuvo in less than a month, in fact nobody is doing it at all

[buttchin]

引用自 space：

nobody is doing denuvo in less than a month, in fact nobody is doing it at all

but denuvo kills performance and a good game don't need drm especially in mh case since pirated copy does not allow you to play online and co-op is a big part of mh experience

[Pheace]

引用自 buttchin：

引用自 space：

nobody is doing denuvo in less than a month, in fact nobody is doing it at all

but denuvo kills performance and a good game don't need drm especially in mh case since pirated copy does not allow you to play online and co-op is a big part of mh experience

Plenty of people play MH almost entirely solo, so that's not a good enough reason. I've rarely done any content with others.

the people who pirate the game were never going to buy it anyway

You should tell the pirates to stop claiming otherwise then. There's scores of em that claim they do if it they need to (like for multiplayer titles or games that aren't cracked).

[[reaVerNL@Rumble]ᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ]

引用自 Pheace：

the people who pirate the game were never going to buy it anyway

You should tell the pirates to stop claiming otherwise then. There's scores of em that claim they do if it they need to (like for multiplayer titles or games that aren't cracked).

That is a lie. The statistics as I saw them was simply that only 10% of those forced to will buy the game, the other 90% will just not play. There is no way in hell that a person goes like "I'm going to pay for game X that I never played before to get access to multiplayer". The person in question has to have been playing the game for a good amount and have become a potential buyer in that period. So when you put on piracy protection, you're shutting out all these pirates from becoming potential buyers. And yes, it sounds like it's bad for business and it is bad for business. This is what Valve already realized, this is what Nexon and Ijji knew 20 years ago. Denying people access to your content in any way ultimately hurts the bottom line.

[Pheace]

引用自 reaVerNL@Rumbleᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ：

That is a lie. The statistics as I saw them was simply that only 10% of those forced to will buy the game

Putting aside for a sec that self admitted willingness of pirates to buy is still a bit of a crapshoot in reliability, assuming there are even reliable statistics for it...

10% of god knows how many pirates in the world. You're saying that like it's almost insignificant... do you have any idea how much money that would amount to? The whole point is to convert the pirate population that WOULD be willing/capable of paying but simply doesn't because they don't have to. 10% would be an amazing result.

There is no way in hell that a person goes like "I'm going to pay for game X that I never played before to get access to multiplayer".

Yes they will. I'm not talking about games with optional multiplayer but particularly for the games that are fully built around multiplayer gameplay (like online shooters for instance), because there simply is no outlook for those to be cracked and playable in the way you'd want them.

Denying people access to your content in any way ultimately hurts the bottom line.

If this was always the case FOMO wouldn't be a commonly known term by now. If your game is good then people will want to play it and the better it is the bigger the peer pressure will be to not miss out.

[space]

引用自 buttchin：

but denuvo kills performance and a good game don't need drm especially in mh case since pirated copy does not allow you to play online and co-op is a big part of mh experience

denuvo doesn't "kill performance", that's flat out wrong

it *can* adversely affect performance if improperly implemented, which was the case in some games years ago, but not anymore as devs are very familiar with how denuvo works now, you're going by information from 3~ years ago

[lukaself]

引用自 space：

引用自 buttchin：

but denuvo kills performance and a good game don't need drm especially in mh case since pirated copy does not allow you to play online and co-op is a big part of mh experience

denuvo doesn't "kill performance", that's flat out wrong

it *can* adversely affect performance if improperly implemented, which was the case in some games years ago, but not anymore as devs are very familiar with how denuvo works now, you're going by information from 3~ years ago

True, but seeing how Capcom routinely breaks basic functionalities while obsessing over implementing outdated DRM and anti-debug measures—often layering them for no discernible reason—I'm not confident they've improved in this field, unlike some other developers.

EA, for instance, improved their approach so much that people barely noticed it in Veilguard... oh wait, that's because they didn't use it, silly me! Despite middling reviews and releasing at the very end of the year, Veilguard still made it into the "Gold" tier of 2024 best sellers on Steam, becoming their best-selling single-player game to date. You can already picture a very confused executive staring at the sales numbers after being told for over a decade that Denuvo was critical.

Denuvo is even less justifiable in Monster Hunter than in Veilguard, given that Monster Hunter is primarily a multiplayer experience, making piracy less appealing. Unlike Capcom, which continues to struggle with DRM implementation, EA's decision to avoid Denuvo in Veilguard demonstrates an alternative path to success.

[Pheace]

Some people still can't seem to grasp that a game selling well does not mean it's not impacted by piracy. Or maybe the idea is that, because it's selling well anyway they're entitled to pirate it?

[[reaVerNL@Rumble]ᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ]

引用自 Pheace：

Some people still can't seem to grasp that a game selling well does not mean it's not impacted by piracy. Or maybe the idea is that, because it's selling well anyway they're entitled to pirate it?

If it's selling well then why would you need to give a flying ♥♥♥♥ about piracy? You're already making good returns, because that's what selling well means, and the piracy can at some point yield you even more money when the pirates become of age where they can afford said games.

[Pheace]

引用自 reaVerNL@Rumbleᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ：

If it's selling well then why would you need to give a flying ♥♥♥♥ about piracy? You're already making good returns, because that's what selling well means, and the piracy can at some point yield you even more money when the pirates become of age where they can afford said games.

You don't need piracy to spend money when coming of age...

Because selling better = more and better games? A better industry? More stuff to look forward to in the future? Making less profit is certainly not going to help towards that end.

And there's margins to profits as well. Just like Denuvo 'performance impact' is claimed to be an issue for gamers right on the edge of performance so too can profit be right on the edge of worth it or not worth it, and making more could make the difference to a sequel or no sequel for instance. Or in the case of indies maybe even continued existence.

There's nuances to everything here. It's nonsense to say 'Well if they sell well what does piracy matter?". Not in the least because you need to protect yourself from piracy BEFORE you start selling, else it's already too late.

[Aldroen]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't wilds supposed to online only ?

If so not sure why they would add denuvo at all.

[lukaself]

引用自 reaVerNL@Rumbleᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ：

引用自 Pheace：

Some people still can't seem to grasp that a game selling well does not mean it's not impacted by piracy. Or maybe the idea is that, because it's selling well anyway they're entitled to pirate it?

If it's selling well then why would you need to give a flying ♥♥♥♥ about piracy? You're already making good returns, because that's what selling well means, and the piracy can at some point yield you even more money when the pirates become of age where they can afford said games.

Don't bother, he doesn’t understand how crucial reputation, goodwill, and community management are to long-term sales and a game’s success. Denuvo is a fool’s errand because it prioritizes short-term piracy prevention at the expense of customer trust, brand loyalty, and organic promotion from an engaged community. Its negative reputation alienates paying customers and tarnishes the experience for many.

The best part being that this year, that aversion did translate into a major and very tangible shift in purchasing habits continuing the trend started in 2023: According to VG Insights, in 2024, 7 out of 10 best seller titles on PC in units sold were indie games, mainly DRM-free products. Also, it's the first year the indie games market surpassed the size of the AAA market on PC!

Investing in the community and delivering a quality product does far more to ensure success than clinging to outdated and divisive DRM measures.

[Mechanique]

引用自 lukaself：

引用自 reaVerNL@Rumbleᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ：

If it's selling well then why would you need to give a flying ♥♥♥♥ about piracy? You're already making good returns, because that's what selling well means, and the piracy can at some point yield you even more money when the pirates become of age where they can afford said games.

Don't bother, he doesn’t understand how crucial reputation, goodwill, and community management are to long-term sales and a game’s success. Denuvo is a fool’s errand because it prioritizes short-term piracy prevention at the expense of customer trust, brand loyalty, and organic promotion from an engaged community. Its negative reputation alienates paying customers and tarnishes the experience for many.

The best part being that this year, that aversion did translate into a major and very tangible shift in purchasing habits continuing the trend started in 2023: According to VG Insights, in 2024, 7 out of 10 best seller titles on PC in units sold were indie games, mainly DRM-free products. Also, it's the first year the indie games market surpassed the size of the AAA market on PC!

Investing in the community and delivering a quality product does far more to ensure success than clinging to outdated and divisive DRM measures. :clickbutton:

Do you think anyone wants those who shake fists at Denuvo to be a part of their community?

Technically illiterate and poor, parroting the literal piracy propaganda. Not caring about the game, just posting irrelevant ragebait in their sorry attempt of a loser's crusade.

Yuck.

[[reaVerNL@Rumble]ᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ]

引用自 Mechanique：

引用自 lukaself：

Don't bother, he doesn’t understand how crucial reputation, goodwill, and community management are to long-term sales and a game’s success. Denuvo is a fool’s errand because it prioritizes short-term piracy prevention at the expense of customer trust, brand loyalty, and organic promotion from an engaged community. Its negative reputation alienates paying customers and tarnishes the experience for many.

The best part being that this year, that aversion did translate into a major and very tangible shift in purchasing habits continuing the trend started in 2023: According to VG Insights, in 2024, 7 out of 10 best seller titles on PC in units sold were indie games, mainly DRM-free products. Also, it's the first year the indie games market surpassed the size of the AAA market on PC!

Investing in the community and delivering a quality product does far more to ensure success than clinging to outdated and divisive DRM measures. :clickbutton:

Do you think anyone wants those who shake fists at Denuvo to be a part of their community?

Technically illiterate and poor, parroting the literal piracy propaganda. Not caring about the game, just posting irrelevant ragebait in their sorry attempt of a loser's crusade.

Yuck.

Only groomers talk about "their community". And you're telling a software developer, someone who has kept track of the piracy issue for well over 20 years that he's illiterate, poor (btw, what?!) and parroting 'the literal piracy propaganda' of which nobody actually knows what that means. There is no propaganda to parrot in the anti piracy spheres, it's well researched, the use cases are on hand, you can easily draw comparisons and you can even see all of it in action by looking at this very steam platform. Unless you want to tell people that Gabe Newell, the very owner of Valve, is spouting piracy propaganda. Anything seems possible with the way you put that together.

There is no ragebait either. Just because you get mad, doesn't mean it's ragebait. You getting mad over someone clearly stating the conditions of a contract are unacceptable means you have severe mental issues... or you're mad his balls are bigger than yours.

And even if we were to go about fighting piracy, that's fine, then fight the pirates. There is no reason whatsoever for PAYING CUSTOMERS to get ♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the ass by the developer. 5 PC activation limit is easily exceeded on the same machine by creating 5 new wine prefixes. You don't even need to do this manually, there just needs to be a bug and steam will do this for you. That means that every steamdeck user is at the mercy of Valve not making any mistakes (and they don't seem to have a QA team) and DENUVO not registering new 'machines' at random.

Then again, you may just be a DENUVO employee shilling his malware and trying to propagandize the notion that the 'community' wants to have their games infested with malware that is purely there to prevent them from playing the game. And it would make perfect sense for the diarrhea you just typed out.

[Velber]

引用自 Aldroen：

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't wilds supposed to online only ?

If so not sure why they would add denuvo at all.

none of the monster hunter games are online only