Carve vs Capture - The numbers

[brunolm]

Tl;dr;

Capture is always better.

Bad game design.

[😎Astran😾]

Why does it even matter? What are you rushing for? The end-game weaps are the plastic looking Artians anyway

[Hormesis]

this was relevant back before you could look at an investigation and get 100% of a boltgem. now it's irrelevant. the only that matters is the investigation hunting target rewards which are predetermined prior to the fight. the faster you finish the fight, the faster you'll have access to 100% chance at rey dau boltgem. ie: capture is better 100% of the time if the goal is simply to get a boltgem.

[brunolm]

Just got 2 gems by Carving Tempered Arkveld

https://imgur.com/a/1fyAyoM

[The Debauchery]

Escrito originalmente por brunolm:

So, even ignoring the tail chance, the Carve Method (200 minutes) is still faster than the Target Method (233.31 minutes) for obtaining a Rey Dau Boltgem.

Investigation with 100% Gem chance makes that kinda.... unimportant.

[brunolm]

Escrito originalmente por The Debauchery:

Escrito originalmente por brunolm:

So, even ignoring the tail chance, the Carve Method (200 minutes) is still faster than the Target Method (233.31 minutes) for obtaining a Rey Dau Boltgem.

Investigation with 100% Gem chance makes that kinda.... unimportant.

Investigation with 100% gem chance ALSO adds to slaying.

unimportant

Why would it be important given you have "infinite" time to play and get all items?

[76561197988918266]

I didn't look at the numbers, I just do this:
if (tail is cut): capture
else: try to cut tail, kill

[BlankMinded/Rovie]

If OP is correct, and that capture rewards use the "Target Rewards" table, then you would be able to get certificates or "sacs" from capturing. Certificates for example are listed as target rewards in the monster guide.

I captured 3 Gore Magalas in 4 player parties, and not one person got a certificate from capture (36 capture reward items total). This leads me to believe that capturing is not the same as "target rewards" as OP states.

According to the monster guide in game, Gravios Skull is not available as a "target reward".
It is available as a "carve" reward, and as a broken part reward.

I received one immediately upon capture. I posit this means that capture rewards = carving rewards.

This also works for Gore Feeler - not a target reward, listed as a carve reward. Can get from capture.

If you want something specific that is a broken part reward, or a tail carve, then break those parts. Otherwise, from what I see, carving rewards = capture rewards...NOT "target" rewards.

[brunolm]

Escrito originalmente por BlankMinded/Rovie:

According to the monster guide in game, Gravios Skull is not available as a "target reward".
It is available as a "carve" reward, and as a broken part reward.

I received one immediately upon capture. I posit this means that capture rewards = carving rewards.

If you want something specific that is a broken part reward, or a tail carve, then break those parts. Otherwise, from what I see, carving rewards = capture rewards.

> broken part reward
BROKEN PART REWARD

[BlankMinded/Rovie]

Escrito originalmente por brunolm:

Escrito originalmente por BlankMinded/Rovie:

According to the monster guide in game, Gravios Skull is not available as a "target reward".
It is available as a "carve" reward, and as a broken part reward.

I received one immediately upon capture. I posit this means that capture rewards = carving rewards.

If you want something specific that is a broken part reward, or a tail carve, then break those parts. Otherwise, from what I see, carving rewards = capture rewards.

> broken part reward
BROKEN PART REWARD

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. You get broken part rewards immediately upon breaking the part. This applies to wound break rewards also.

You also get capture rewards upon capturing, immediately.

They are displayed in the chat, not the reward screen.

I got a skull from capturing, NOT from a part break. It is not listed in the monster guide as a capture reward, just a carving reward.

I have also edited my previous post with additional information, countering the claim that capture = target rewards when it does not.

Just to clarify my stance - I do think Capturing is more efficient overall, but not in all cases; it depends on the monster part you want. But your post has some inaccuracies that might mislead people into believing which items they can receive via capture and which they cannot, as well as which method is more time efficient for obtaining a given item.

[Black Lamb, Rock Enjoyer]

The one thing this game is actually good about.

♥♥♥♥ the Cap meta from World.

[Cadaver]

Post the script it wrote or remove your meaningless explanation of math

[BlankMinded/Rovie]

Escrito originalmente por Black Lamb, Rock Enjoyer:

The one thing this game is actually good about.

♥♥♥♥ the Cap meta from World.

capturing is unfortunately still better in this game, unless you want something like a tail or broken part reward and haven't cut/broke it before the monster is capturable.
A good example of this from personal experience is Nerscylla Claw - if you break it you're guaranteed one, and I need boatloads so I don't want to capture that spider.

But with that said, do what you find fun! I prefer killing mosnters even though it is less "efficient".

[Lynsis]

capturing is boring and takes the fun away, i only capture if i need a very specific part from target rewards.

[brunolm]

If capturing draws from the 4 pools, then it's even WORSE

-------------

Thank you for the clarification! If we ignore the **7% chance from the tail carve** and assume that **capturing can draw from any of the 4 pools** (Target, Carve, Broken Parts, Wound Destroy), we need to reassess the probabilities and efficiency of slaying vs. capturing for obtaining the **Rey Dau Boltgem**.

---

### **1. Updated Drop Pools**
The **Rey Dau Boltgem** appears in:
- **Target Pool**: 3% chance.
- **Carve Pool**: 5% chance (Body only, since we're ignoring the tail).

It does **not** appear in the **Broken Parts** or **Wound Destroy** pools.

---

### **2. Slaying vs. Capturing**
#### **Slaying (10 minutes)**
- You can carve the monster **3 times**, with each carve coming from the **Carve Pool**.
- The **Rey Dau Boltgem** has a **5% chance per carve**.
- Total chance per slay: \( 1 - (1 - 0.05)^3 = 1 - 0.95^3 = 1 - 0.857 = 0.143 \) or **14.3% chance**.

#### **Capturing (7 minutes)**
- You get **3 extra rewards**, each of which can come from **any of the 4 pools**.
- The **Rey Dau Boltgem** can only come from the **Target Pool (3%)** or the **Carve Pool (5%)**.
- To calculate the probability, we need to know the weighting of the pools. Since the weighting isn't specified, we'll assume **equal weighting** (each pool has a 25% chance of being selected for each reward).

---

### **3. Probability Analysis**
#### **Slaying**
- **Body Carves**: 3 carves × 5% chance = **14.3% total chance** (as calculated above).

#### **Capturing**
- For each reward:
- 25% chance to draw from the **Target Pool**: 3% chance for Boltgem.
- 25% chance to draw from the **Carve Pool**: 5% chance for Boltgem.
- 25% chance to draw from the **Broken Parts Pool**: 0% chance for Boltgem.
- 25% chance to draw from the **Wound Destroy Pool**: 0% chance for Boltgem.
- **Effective chance per reward**:
\[
(0.25 \times 0.03) + (0.25 \times 0.05) + (0.25 \times 0) + (0.25 \times 0) = 0.0075 + 0.0125 = 0.02 \text{ or } 2\%.
\]
- **Total chance for 3 rewards**:
\[
1 - (1 - 0.02)^3 = 1 - 0.98^3 = 1 - 0.941 = 0.059 \text{ or } 5.9\%.
\]

---

### **4. Time Efficiency**
- **Slaying**: 10 minutes per attempt, **14.3% chance** per attempt.
- **Capturing**: 7 minutes per attempt, **5.9% chance** per attempt.

#### **Expected Time to Obtain Boltgem**
- **Slaying**:
\[
\text{Expected attempts} = \frac{1}{0.143} \approx 7 \text{ attempts}.
\]
\[
\text{Expected time} = 7 \times 10 = 70 \text{ minutes}.
\]
- **Capturing**:
\[
\text{Expected attempts} = \frac{1}{0.059} \approx 17 \text{ attempts}.
\]
\[
\text{Expected time} = 17 \times 7 = 119 \text{ minutes}.
\]

---

### **5. Optimal Strategy**
- **Slaying** is significantly more efficient than capturing for obtaining the **Rey Dau Boltgem**.
- Even though capturing is faster per attempt, the much lower probability of obtaining the Boltgem makes it less efficient overall.

---

### **6. Conclusion**
The most efficient way to obtain the **Rey Dau Boltgem** is to **slay the monster**. This method provides a **14.3% chance per attempt** and is expected to take around **70 minutes** on average, compared to capturing, which would take around **119 minutes** on average.

[BlankMinded/Rovie]

I think you've missed a little bit of what I said earlier, possibly due to repeated edits on my part.

Unless you or someone else can provide a screen shot of obtaining a "certificate", which is a "target reward" EXCLUSIVE item obtained via CAPTURING, then capturing does NOT draw from your defined 4 pools. If it did, certificates would be possible.

I captured 3 Gore Magalas with 4 players each hunt. And no one got a ticket. There's an 8% chance to get a certificate per reward. 3 capture rewards per person, 4 people per hunt, 36 total rewards.

There's a 92% chance to NOT GET a certificate per reward. That means there is a (0.92 to the power of 36) or ( 0.92 ^ 36) chance of not getting a single ticket in 3 hunts.

That's 5% chance of zero tickets (which actually happened). In otherwords, either the 4 of us got really unlucky, or you straight up cannot get certificates, a TARGET EXCLUSIVE REWARD from capturing. I.e doesn't draw from the 4 pools.

As far as I can tell, capturing and carving pools are identical, and you can theoretically obtain a rey dau bolt gem via the 3 capture rewards that appear on screen when capturing (not shown in quest rewards).

I feel like your analysis is still not quite accurate. If I am right, then the only factor to consider is the time lost severing+carving the tail (instead of max dps + capture) vs the extra chance it grants to get the gem.