HBG is breaking my heart

[Netsa]

I'm one of those rare players that actually played HBG because it was fun, and not because it was strong. I loved customizing the gun, choosing and crafting ammo, testing its performance, all of those technical aspects that made it feel like a real machine. I used Normal 3 HBGs as secondary weapons in every game since 4 (3, technically, but that game had the build-a-beargun system).

In Wilds, the weapon feels streamlined to the point of... not being an HBG anymore. It's just not. It's a slow LBG. I don't want slow-LBG, I want the HEAVY. Where's the BEEF?! Why do the devs think I chose to pick up an irrationally large gun? So I could block with an SnS shield while I rapid-fire peanuts from my tiny te-, *ahem* clips? If I wanted to do that, I'd pick up an LBG!

No, I chose to forego the shield in every single game because I wanted a big barrel with big power. What is difficult to understand about this, Capcom?

Normals are forced to rapid-fire now, which is weird since HBG isn't a rapid-fire weapon. Recoil is gone, which means you can't reconfigure the recoil. Shields are permanently affixed, which means you can't reconfigure the barrel. Deviation certainly isn't a thing anymore. Wyvernsnipe has been turned into Slow Wyvernheart, so reconfiguring the special ammo is more of a formality than anything else.

Basic ammo types are all infinite, but that's a double-edged sword since any ammo level lower than the max level can no longer be used. That means you can't exhaust lvl 3 ammo and then switch to lvl 2 ammo to keep firing. You only have lvl 3, so you can only reload. Because that's what a GUN needs. LESS pewpew.

Several guns that used to be Normal 3 are now Normal 2 or not Normal at all. I built the first Normal 3 gun I saw, which was Arkveld's, but there's something peculiar about Arkveld's gun: it's stats make no sense. Even on it's maximum upgrade, and despite the fact that it can't fire any other shots besides Wyvern and Dragon, its base Normal clip is two. TWO. TWO?! This same gun has Tetrad Shot, which means any clip size below 4 is pointless. So it's either waste both customization slots on Normal Magazine, or switch to using Pierce or Spread 1 on what's supposed to be a Normal gun.

Not that the customization slots are being used for anything. What are my choices here? Slightly higher damage, 1 extra shot, or... that's it. That's everything. Who cares? Who would ever care?

This stuff is on top of losing basically everything from Iceborne, Rise, and Sunbreak. No special scope, no wyvernsnipe, no charged shots, and crouch fire removed AGAIN. In their place... I can now clash sometimes. And I got an offset! Woo...

Why didn't they just lower the damage?!
Why did they instead take a machete to every single aspect of the gun until it's a bloody, unrecognizable mess? This is the worst and most boring incarnation of the Heavy Bowgun the series has ever had.

[AH-1 Cobra]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Herbert Bauchikowski:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von AH-1 Cobra:

I think you should read up on the metas, because all of this has been data mined, tested and figured out already, and you're objectively wrong if you say raw is better than elemental.

Then you are simply wrong. The meta is not elemental. The meta is raw + krit + paralyze. Every single time.

They have all the data in the Monster Hunter Gathering Hall discord, the meta builds are posted, along with what you should use in each matchup, the majority of matchups are elemental matchups. There's your personal preference, and then there's the actual meta, don't confuse one with the other.

Top speed runs are using elemental damage in elemental matchups.

[AH-1 Cobra]

The power of elemental:

https://youtu.be/tf0l_THxltQ

[Inuakurei]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Herbert Bauchikowski:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Inuakurei:

They removed a lot of the "beef" from weapons. Everything is faster and more streamlined now, but at the cost of the feeling of "weight" behind some things that World had.

You are right. I think they wanted to balance all the weapons in an way you are basically hardcapped how much damage you can do to a monster. Of course overall the runs are faster. But it was simply lazy balancing, because they lowered the monster health points for nearly all the monsters. I have nothing against faster runs, but now we are in a situation where all the weapons are nearly the samge damage wise.

There are very special builds like k.o builds for hammer or the sleeping buiild. But aside from that is is always paralyze weapon + krit+ raw damage. Because the devs overnerved every other weapon and skillset on the armor.

Yup. Keep in mind also that they originally planned to remove all hitstop from weapons. It was only because of the universal complaints that they added hitstop back in. Its pretty clear they saw how much "praise" Rise's combat got, and decided to make every weapon like 1.5* faster and easier than World. I'm just thankful they didn't use Rise's god awful hunting horn moveset.

For example, you don't even need to time Lance's guard anymore, you can straight up cancel any thrust into a standard guard if your counter guard isn't going to be fast enough.

[Toyosatomimi no Miko]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Inuakurei:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Herbert Bauchikowski:

You are right. I think they wanted to balance all the weapons in an way you are basically hardcapped how much damage you can do to a monster. Of course overall the runs are faster. But it was simply lazy balancing, because they lowered the monster health points for nearly all the monsters. I have nothing against faster runs, but now we are in a situation where all the weapons are nearly the samge damage wise.

There are very special builds like k.o builds for hammer or the sleeping buiild. But aside from that is is always paralyze weapon + krit+ raw damage. Because the devs overnerved every other weapon and skillset on the armor.

Yup. Keep in mind also that they originally planned to remove all hitstop from weapons. It was only because of the universal complaints that they added hitstop back in. Its pretty clear they saw how much "praise" Rise's combat got, and decided to make every weapon like 1.5* faster and easier than World. I'm just thankful they didn't use Rise's god awful hunting horn moveset.

For example, you don't even need to time Lance's guard anymore, you can straight up cancel any thrust into a standard guard if your counter guard isn't going to be fast enough.

Typical worldbabies blaming it all on Rise.
Heavy bowgun was MASSIVELY improved in Rise (customization returned to old-gen style, more ammo types, and outside of wirebug skills you had charge fire and crouching fire, and shoulder tackle for hyperarmor shenanigans), and weapon speed was not increased across the board in Rise either like you're trying to claim. I don't think a single base weapon moveset was sped up at all actually, and hitstop wasn't reduced that much if at all either.

The changes in this game are new, fully so, and are done this way to bring in a more casual audience alongside the western audience world brought.

[Tenz]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Netsa:

Basic ammo types are all infinite, but that's a double-edged sword since any ammo level lower than the max level can no longer be used. That means you can't exhaust lvl 3 ammo and then switch to lvl 2 ammo to keep firing. You only have lvl 3, so you can only reload. Because that's what a GUN needs. LESS pewpew.

Ignoring that crafting ammo now is alot easier. Good changes to ranged weapons. This is the future.

[Netsa]

I agree with Toyo, HBG was pretty massively improved in Rise+Sunbreak. Siege fire, counter charge, Sun and Moon, it was pretty good. Still, even though it's off-topic, wanted to signal boost this since it's rarely said:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Inuakurei:

I'm just thankful they didn't use Rise's god awful hunting horn moveset.

[Polaris]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Toyosatomimi no Miko:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Inuakurei:

Yup. Keep in mind also that they originally planned to remove all hitstop from weapons. It was only because of the universal complaints that they added hitstop back in. Its pretty clear they saw how much "praise" Rise's combat got, and decided to make every weapon like 1.5* faster and easier than World. I'm just thankful they didn't use Rise's god awful hunting horn moveset.

For example, you don't even need to time Lance's guard anymore, you can straight up cancel any thrust into a standard guard if your counter guard isn't going to be fast enough.

Typical worldbabies blaming it all on Rise.
Heavy bowgun was MASSIVELY improved in Rise (customization returned to old-gen style, more ammo types, and outside of wirebug skills you had charge fire and crouching fire, and shoulder tackle for hyperarmor shenanigans), and weapon speed was not increased across the board in Rise either like you're trying to claim. I don't think a single base weapon moveset was sped up at all actually, and hitstop wasn't reduced that much if at all either.

The changes in this game are new, fully so, and are done this way to bring in a more casual audience alongside the western audience world brought.

I'm going to disagree herre, rise made it so that even if I got a gun to recoil 1, I still wouldn't be able to walk (depending. On the gun) but even if the gun allowed walking, you still couldn't walk at recoil 3 and 4.


In the end, they just hurt QOL while still making it a DPS beast, also, deviation, because of how it worked with eating for tempered, it became worse to have low deviation. If your deviation was 0, it would drift randomly left or right often alternating, so oddly enough, in order to have predictable drift, you needed at least some deviation to use felyne temper.

It's clear Capcom is afraid of letting spread be good, but they never understood the problem, spread was never the problem, the problem was how strong the close range mods and special scope were, and how easy to use with spread.

Turns out, having easily accessible percent increases to damage is problematic, rise came around, and they didn't learn, LBG was dominant, as it had access to pierce up, and rapid fire up, and switch skills that also gave percent increases to damage, and because LBG was so strong.....they nerfed hitzones.


Ammo hitzones were the only ones to change in master rank, and it was meant to curb LBG, HBG and bow got caught as collateral. Did you know kushalas obly weak point for amoo was the forearms?


They tried to make pierce unusable, because it was dominant (normal has always been bad, and they nerfed spread)

So we get to wilds, and they just nerfed everything, the guns do not feel good to use.


My favorite gun in world was the zorah HBG, it had all the status ammo, recovery, sticky, and cluster, it was fun playing a tactical overwatch, and setting up teammates with heals or statuses

That's going to be impossible in wilds, they have so far made sticky, cluster wyvern and slicing all mutually exclusive of one another.

Only 1 HBG has more then 1 status ammo

Only 2 HBGs have recovery

They are boring, the customization is shallow, and the guns all feel just about identical.

[YuukoRespecter]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TyresTyco:

You know what? Good. In world and Rise ranged players annoyed the ♥♥♥♥ out of me because they made every hunt a passive snoozefest.

I remember the 4 people hunts where 3 out of 4 people were hbg players spamming spread, blast, slice etc. It sucked. This game is thousand times more enjoyable in coop because people barely play guns and if they do they barely tickle the monster.

It's awesome.

Longsword player detected, put on the rocksteady or get staggered infinitely ♥♥♥♥♥

[Warp Pope Blackus III]

I definitely agree. I loved playing hbg before. but now it feels like a streamlined boring weapon. customization is down. Ammo capacity across the board for all non infinite basic ammo is significantly down, therefor some of the interesting/fun specail ammo builds are no longer viable. having a guaranteed shield means i have less control than ever on how my gun operates. the mod slots are boring af. I dont get why they gutted everything that made this fun.

and i HATE spread ammo now. that and sticky were so much fun before. sticky isnt even a thought now with the capacity issues. but spread..even with the infinite ammo just sucks to use. recoil guts the experience super hard and i have no way to combat it.

im all for making changes from one game to the next...but the changes in this case just don't come with trade offs that make it worth using the weapon anymore.

[ShintyShinto]

crapcom needs to add back:
wyvernsnipe
siege mode / crouching shot
valor sprint + slide (+ dive into wyvernsnipe)
charged shot
counter shot
setting sun
special scope
tackle (y+b, then b after perfect guard)
buttstroke (y+b without guarding, then b)

once all the cool sh!t they took out is back in and slice/sticky buffed, they can add new special ammos like:
wyvernsurge (primary) - fires a gravios laser beam while crouching, knocks back when done, high-commitment but melts monsters.
wyvernspear (secondary) - fires a harpoon that pulls down monsters depending on body part / timing / positioning.
wyvernplunge (secondary) - charges while plunging, releasing just before landing on a monster detonates a nuke that sends your hunter ragdolling, power determined by the length of the plunge.

and either make wyverncounter easier to pull off (by not tying it to ignition mode/gauge) or more rewarding, right now it's high risk & tedium / low reward / huge satisfaction.

[Vree]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TyresTyco:

You know what? Good. In world and Rise ranged players annoyed the ♥♥♥♥ out of me because they made every hunt a passive snoozefest.

I remember the 4 people hunts where 3 out of 4 people were hbg players spamming spread, blast, slice etc. It sucked. This game is thousand times more enjoyable in coop because people barely play guns and if they do they barely tickle the monster.

It's awesome.

Lmao POV when you think you know what you're talking about but you actually don't

[Nefarious Slurp]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TyresTyco:

You know what? Good. In world and Rise ranged players annoyed the ♥♥♥♥ out of me because they made every hunt a passive snoozefest.

I remember the 4 people hunts where 3 out of 4 people were hbg players spamming spread, blast, slice etc. It sucked. This game is thousand times more enjoyable in coop because people barely play guns and if they do they barely tickle the monster.

It's awesome.

Thats not exactly true. It was only true if you BUILT around having shieldx3 with your armor and weapon gems buffing heals on attack, regen, faster healing, guard up and stuff. If you built for damage, it was anything but a snooze fest, it was very interactive.

I will always have a soft spot for my nergy armor and big nergy hgb...

[mechajinkun]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TyresTyco:

You know what? Good. In world and Rise ranged players annoyed the ♥♥♥♥ out of me because they made every hunt a passive snoozefest.

I remember the 4 people hunts where 3 out of 4 people were hbg players spamming spread, blast, slice etc. It sucked. This game is thousand times more enjoyable in coop because people barely play guns and if they do they barely tickle the monster.

It's awesome.

Imagine blaming options for your skill issues

[The Debauchery]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Calaban:

Thats not exactly true. It was only true if you BUILT around having shieldx3 with your armor and weapon gems buffing heals on attack, regen, faster healing, guard up and stuff. If you built for damage, it was anything but a snooze fest, it was very interactive.

In every previous game we'd see the same pattern:
#1. HBG would absolutely wreck shop and all the bladeys would get jealous.
#2. Randoms would try using HBG because they wanted to be big, powerful Gunners... and they'd get completely wrecked because nobody warned them how difficult it is.
#3. All the players who hate Gunners and all the players who wanted to be Gunners would cry in unison about it. Half of them crying for it to be nerfed and the other half crying for it to be easier.
#4. HBG would get nerfed, but Gunners would just find another way to be OP with it.

Well... now we have what all the haters wanted. Everything that made the Bowguns distinctive and fun has been killed. Everything that made them complicated has been killed.
They're the same as bladey weapons now: mindless dross. And of course now the bladeys are smug about it because they hated anyone being better than them.

[Kuter]

Im amazed you dont get criticals with pierce hbg in this, was my favorite thing to use in world with big hunts