HBG is breaking my heart

[Netsa]

I'm one of those rare players that actually played HBG because it was fun, and not because it was strong. I loved customizing the gun, choosing and crafting ammo, testing its performance, all of those technical aspects that made it feel like a real machine. I used Normal 3 HBGs as secondary weapons in every game since 4 (3, technically, but that game had the build-a-beargun system).

In Wilds, the weapon feels streamlined to the point of... not being an HBG anymore. It's just not. It's a slow LBG. I don't want slow-LBG, I want the HEAVY. Where's the BEEF?! Why do the devs think I chose to pick up an irrationally large gun? So I could block with an SnS shield while I rapid-fire peanuts from my tiny te-, *ahem* clips? If I wanted to do that, I'd pick up an LBG!

No, I chose to forego the shield in every single game because I wanted a big barrel with big power. What is difficult to understand about this, Capcom?

Normals are forced to rapid-fire now, which is weird since HBG isn't a rapid-fire weapon. Recoil is gone, which means you can't reconfigure the recoil. Shields are permanently affixed, which means you can't reconfigure the barrel. Deviation certainly isn't a thing anymore. Wyvernsnipe has been turned into Slow Wyvernheart, so reconfiguring the special ammo is more of a formality than anything else.

Basic ammo types are all infinite, but that's a double-edged sword since any ammo level lower than the max level can no longer be used. That means you can't exhaust lvl 3 ammo and then switch to lvl 2 ammo to keep firing. You only have lvl 3, so you can only reload. Because that's what a GUN needs. LESS pewpew.

Several guns that used to be Normal 3 are now Normal 2 or not Normal at all. I built the first Normal 3 gun I saw, which was Arkveld's, but there's something peculiar about Arkveld's gun: it's stats make no sense. Even on it's maximum upgrade, and despite the fact that it can't fire any other shots besides Wyvern and Dragon, its base Normal clip is two. TWO. TWO?! This same gun has Tetrad Shot, which means any clip size below 4 is pointless. So it's either waste both customization slots on Normal Magazine, or switch to using Pierce or Spread 1 on what's supposed to be a Normal gun.

Not that the customization slots are being used for anything. What are my choices here? Slightly higher damage, 1 extra shot, or... that's it. That's everything. Who cares? Who would ever care?

This stuff is on top of losing basically everything from Iceborne, Rise, and Sunbreak. No special scope, no wyvernsnipe, no charged shots, and crouch fire removed AGAIN. In their place... I can now clash sometimes. And I got an offset! Woo...

Why didn't they just lower the damage?!
Why did they instead take a machete to every single aspect of the gun until it's a bloody, unrecognizable mess? This is the worst and most boring incarnation of the Heavy Bowgun the series has ever had.

[FISHY!!!!]

Definitely my biggest gripe is how literally every single weapon in wilds had either a makeover or moves and content integrated from rise/gen u for wilds for the better while HBG got gutted more than anything. The lack of content by comparison to every other weapon is super noticeable. No siege mode, no charge shots, less ammo, reload/recoil/deviation decs gone, no extended barrel, no wyvern snipe.

Where world and rise expanded upon the weapon's kit this genuinely feels regressive. It is just World HBG with less and there's no other way to put it.

Like i'm sure they're gonna add the rise/gen u stuff when Master rank becomes a thing but the idea of waiting a whole year for one weapon to be semi usable/fun is frankly disappointing. Oh well, every monster hunter has to have that one weapon that sucks and HBG users got the shaft I guess.

[Cracker Barrel Breakfast Battle]

fake ass "HBG" mains saying they want something heavy then crying when a skill that makes them not heavy is removed. recoil spread builds are so cringe I hate what world and rise did to my weapon.
Normal and spread shots are fun to use now because the shots are commitments similar to the melee weapons, but just don't have the damage to justify playing that way.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by Cracker Barrel Breakfast Battle:

fake ass "HBG" mains saying they want something heavy then crying when a skill that makes them not heavy is removed. recoil spread builds are so cringe I hate what world and rise did to my weapon.
Normal and spread shots are fun to use now because the shots are commitments similar to the melee weapons, but just don't have the damage to justify playing that way.

??????????????????????????

What makes HBG feel "heavy" is the firepower and movement speed, not how fast you're able to fire. Gatling guns are not light weapons. If the whole point is just to make it feel "heavy", then the gun should be built entirely around Cluster and WyvernFire, and Wyvernsnipe should have never been removed.

There is no "commitment" necessary for BASIC HBG shots because it doesn't have the same defenses as actual melee weapons. It doesn't have the maneuverability of SnS or DB. It can't block-counter everything like Lance and GL. It doesn't have easy, stand-your-ground Counter/Armor moves like SA, LS, GS, and CB. It's not buffing itself to heck n' back like HH and IG. (I don't know what Hammer users are doing.)

It's just standing and firing while relying entirely on the Seikret if it gets tapped by anything because it can otherwise barely move and has a slow sheathing animation. Remember, gunners still take a pretty massive defense nerf even if they're using an HBG. We're not exempt just because we're not gliding around the stage like unicorns like LBG and Bow.

Wilds is choosing to halfheartedly remedy HBG's lack of survivability by forcing shield attachments on everyone, but it wants to do this at the same time as significantly lengthening your vulnerability time every time you fire a shot (and making you reload more often), which defeats the point.

And Normals, oh my goodness. There is no universe in which Normals have to be commitments. No one has ever been fighting with a Normal user and thought "man, this guy is so OP, I wish his shots were slower so he would die."

[4outof5dentists]

Originally posted by Netsa:

(I don't know what Hammer users are doing.)

Dying :P

But in all seriousness, the idea was the it was actually maneuverable, less in i-frame perfect dodge way, but more in 'just don't be there where the monster will hit you' and only move in when you have the chance.

Just like HBG, the devs then butchered its unique identity (hit/run charging weapon) and turned it into a combo weapon. Even worse, most of the kit is useless (seriously what is the point of bing bang) and majority of damage comes from one move (apparently no one learned anything from base rise IC spam), and it makes hammers immobile as hell during it. Which then exposes the issue that the hammer didn't really get any useful defensive tools to compensate, since it has probably the worst offset in the game. And insult to injury, even if you pull off the offset, hammer doesn't get any gap closers, so it whiffs most of the wild swing hits...

And the crazy thing is that one of the lead devs is a hammer main, and that hammer hasn't been a top tier weapon like HBG.

[legacy_1]

i would have keep everything the same from worlds (never played rise so idk) except i would have given certain hbgs the ability to use spread, normal, or pierce (same speed as the pierce ammo) with the elemental ammo with the trade off of atk being lower if they can do this.

[AH-1 Cobra]

HBG is a weapon of mass destruction with elemental ammo in elemental matchups. It's not that great with raw ammos like normal or pierce, and spread is completely dead due to its high recoil with no way to lower it. If I use raw ammo with HBG, I prefer to go wyvernheart & pierce.

The artian HBG can get ignition mode 2, which boosts wyvernheart damage by 20%, and you can add special ammo boost to further increase the damage, but you trade that for dealing less damage with pierce shots, but if you want a pure pierce gun, you're better off using LBG.

They completely killed using sticky & cluster. It's fun blowing stuff up, even if it's not always optimal to do so, but we don't even have that option in WIlds, we at least had that option in World and Rise.

Also, they nerfed ballistics skill, it used to broadly increase the sweet spot range, short and long, but now it only expands the length of the range. It's OK for normal shot, but it doesn't really do anything to help pierce, if anything you want the pierce range to be closer than what it is.

There's also no spare shot skill and no skill to reduce recoil. If I could trade the shield for a recoil compensator to lower the recoil of spread, I would.

[Bier und Brezel Spiel]

HBG got gutted to the point of being unfun to use. Yeah if you have a max build for the weapon in wilds it does a lot of damage, but damn that weapon is boring. Furthermore the customization options for this weapon are not really good. Who the hell will switch to a static mortar option when every monster runs and jumps around like its on energy drink.

The bow and the LBG are amazing in wilds. The HBG is simply boring. Like mind killing boring.

[Bier und Brezel Spiel]

Originally posted by AH-1 Cobra:

HBG is a weapon of mass destruction with elemental ammo in elemental matchups. It's not that great with raw ammos like normal or pierce, and spread is completely dead due to its high recoil with no way to lower it. If I use raw ammo with HBG, I prefer to go wyvernheart & pierce.

The artian HBG can get ignition mode 2, which boosts wyvernheart damage by 20%, and you can add special ammo boost to further increase the damage, but you trade that for dealing less damage with pierce shots, but if you want a pure pierce gun, you're better off using LBG.

They completely killed using sticky & cluster. It's fun blowing stuff up, even if it's not always optimal to do so, but we don't even have that option in WIlds, we at least had that option in World and Rise.

Also, they nerfed ballistics skill, it used to broadly increase the sweet spot range, short and long, but now it only expands the length of the range. It's OK for normal shot, but it doesn't really do anything to help pierce, if anything you want the pierce range to be closer than what it is.

There's also no spare shot skill and no skill to reduce recoil. If I could trade the shield for a recoil compensator to lower the recoil of spread, I would.

The problem right now in wilds is the fact that elemantal damage is low tier trash damage. They nerved status damage too like poison, but elemental damage became so bad, it falls behind lighyears in damage compared to raw damage. There are HBG which can be played with raw on normal shot damage. I was doing that. But it is so boring, i fell nearly asleep while playing.

Furthermore a lot of people don´t know the fact you can´t trigger a lot of attack buffs on certain armors like "flayer" for example.

Flayer is for raw damage mostly, but this goes for elemntal damage support buffs too. You simply can´t trigger them with most attack. Worst way of balancing.

So the only way right now to even play bowgun is crit + raw damage. Nothing else. Like REALLY nothing else.

[AH-1 Cobra]

Originally posted by Herbert Bauchikowski:

The problem right now in wilds is the fact that elemantal damage is low tier trash damage.

You clearly got WIlds mixed up with some other game, because elemental hitzones work great in WIlds.

[Inuakurei]

They removed a lot of the "beef" from weapons. Everything is faster and more streamlined now, but at the cost of the feeling of "weight" behind some things that World had.

[Bier und Brezel Spiel]

Originally posted by AH-1 Cobra:

Originally posted by Herbert Bauchikowski:

The problem right now in wilds is the fact that elemantal damage is low tier trash damage.

You clearly got WIlds mixed up with some other game, because elemental hitzones work great in WIlds.

I think you should read up how bad elemental damage is right now. Is is not about elemental damage itself. It is about how the buffs and skill work for the elemental damage. The devs bound them to certain weapon attack skills. And what they did is, they removed tthe option to trigger a lot of this skils and buffs with certain attacks. Look up reddit for that. There is a whole list for flayer for example showing how bad that skill is. Same for elemental damage support buffs.

it is not worth running elemental compare to raw + krit.

[Professor Elm]

The only point of the HBG is to use Wyvernheart, I'm waiting for a mod to reduce recoil until I pick either bowguns back up.

[AH-1 Cobra]

Originally posted by Herbert Bauchikowski:

I think you should read up how bad elemental damage is right now. Is is not about elemental damage itself.

I think you should read up on the metas, because all of this has been data mined, tested and figured out already, and you're objectively wrong if you say raw is better than elemental.

[Bier und Brezel Spiel]

Originally posted by Inuakurei:

They removed a lot of the "beef" from weapons. Everything is faster and more streamlined now, but at the cost of the feeling of "weight" behind some things that World had.

You are right. I think they wanted to balance all the weapons in an way you are basically hardcapped how much damage you can do to a monster. Of course overall the runs are faster. But it was simply lazy balancing, because they lowered the monster health points for nearly all the monsters. I have nothing against faster runs, but now we are in a situation where all the weapons are nearly the samge damage wise.

There are very special builds like k.o builds for hammer or the sleeping buiild. But aside from that is is always paralyze weapon + krit+ raw damage. Because the devs overnerved every other weapon and skillset on the armor.

[Bier und Brezel Spiel]

Originally posted by AH-1 Cobra:

Originally posted by Herbert Bauchikowski:

I think you should read up how bad elemental damage is right now. Is is not about elemental damage itself.

I think you should read up on the metas, because all of this has been data mined, tested and figured out already, and you're objectively wrong if you say raw is better than elemental.

Then you are simply wrong. The meta is not elemental. The meta is raw + krit + paralyze. Every single time. Search for the flayer skill problem or watch a youtube video how bad elemental skills are right now. There is no reason to run elemental at all. Hell a lot of buffs don´t even apply because a weapon can not even trigger them. And this is HARDCODED into the weapon. Because of this the Ark set is completely trash right now for example.