Interview regarding friendly fire is bullcrap

[Kev-Ab]

Okay this is a thread I do not want to make, but hear me out.
Everyone that has played Monster Hunter in the past (and by past I meant actual past not just Rise) should REALLY be angry at the direction the game devs are going about.

I can forgive reducing hitstop of light attacks, I understand making part of the combat more fluid, I understand that now you can aim your attacks, even I can forgive you now have psychic powers and know where the monster is all the times (mostly because there's now multiple instances of the same monster).

But there are a lot of things, regarding "minor inconveniences" that are part of the charm of monster hunter.
They are taking the "huh people think it's annoying we should remove it" that approach is so mf idiotic, If we go with that logic, then why even have dunno, high rank, just make the game low rank beat the monsters close the game ggs well played and do not add monsters after 3 months because it's "annoying" returning to the game right? Hell if being interrupted is so annoying in an action game, why even make it action? just make an RPG which is basically stat sheet versus enemy stat sheet?

Small inconveniences and how to approach them effectively is a good way to make a game "difficult" without just lazily amping up damage and HP.
Monster Hunter is a game of preparation against the next challenge, doesn't mean it should be grindy and I think it's good that grinding has been reduced a lot since 4U, but to remove "little inconveniences" in a game that has a system where the devs can create ANY skill they want, I think it's fair that the only correct solution to these issues is just making decos to "avoid annoying things".
You hate cold/hot drinks? Implement deco to make it not a problem.
You hate flinching? Implement a deco to avoid flinch and at a higher level avoid being launched.
You hate sharpening? Implemente a deco to reduce the amount of time you need to sharpen.
You think eating and healing is slow? implement a deco to reduce healing time.
And the devs should do this to ANYTHING that is considered "annoying" and make it part of the preparation needed to the monster.
Hell this is the way it has been done in World and Rise, they just should make it more accesible or at least more obvious to unaware players instead of removing it.

Monster hunter is also an Action RPG not a beat em up, there's one quintillion incredibly nice beat em ups and if you want a beat em up, literally CAPCOM has this one beautiful series called Devil May Cry, maybe give it a try you know, you fight cool bosses, there's no flinching, there's various levels of difficulty for all kinds of people, there's varied weapons and fightstyle for you to try, etc.

But there's only 1 MONSTER HUNTER series in the world, don't throwaway it's identity so hard just for nothing, because nowadays MONSTER HUNTER already sells millions, you are not getting more millions out of making Monter Hunter into a beat em up.

PS: Someone said like "people are just pretending to be old to be mad about things" okay I hope I'm legally allowed to criticize the interview now: https://i.imgur.com/VKpuuw5.png

[Marleene]

Yes, if it's true i'm considering to not buy Wild and stopping the series.
Enough is enough ! Stop removing friction in Monster Hunter.
They are killing what made Monster Hunter a unique series.

[Scipo0419]

While I overall agree with your point about removing some of the things that make MonHun what it is (flexing after drinking, hit stop, crazy weapon designs). Flinching from ally attacks is not something that defines monster hunter and especially in Gen 5 it almost necessitated adding Flinch Free to your skills because of how easy it is to slot in. Unless they go back to the old system, 99% of players are removing it with a single point anyway, so why not remove it? The old games required you to invest in the skill or work around being flinched by allies, the newer games made it a single decoration spot dedicated to removing flinches.

[Kev-Ab]

Originally posted by Scipo0419:

While I overall agree with your point about removing some of the things that make MonHun what it is (flexing after drinking, hit stop, crazy weapon designs). Flinching from ally attacks is not something that defines monster hunter and especially in Gen 5 it almost necessitated adding Flinch Free to your skills because of how easy it is to slot in. Unless they go back to the old system, 99% of players are removing it with a single point anyway, so why not remove it? The old games required you to invest in the skill or work around being flinched by allies, the newer games made it a single decoration spot dedicated to removing flinches.

Yes it is a big part of the game, because you had to organize the people and call dibs on monster parts, it is part of the interaction with other players.
Basically it's a communication and teamwork skill being removed just because online randoms picked longsword and mashed attacks.
The only time in older games that I remember where flinching was actually very very dumb, is back in ps4 release World with the Slash ammo having magical AoE flinching box that made no sense. That was an actual oopsie on developers part.
Launching can also be asked to perform otherwise impossible aerials moves and in fact, MAKING SOMEONE FLINCH IS A WAY TO GET THEM OUT OF HITSTUN, MUD, SLEEP OR EVEN SOME SPECIAL STATUSES.

Granted that not every move should topple/swing upwards, but big powerful attacks should totally do either topple to launch you to also prevent abuse, because if not you will have 4 people doing absolutely bonkers damage on the head at the same time because they can use their most powerful damage combos they have without having to position themselves or having a deco that allows them to do it.
Forcing people to use deco, adds an element of benefit tradeoff and balance "Do I get the flinch free deco? Or do I position myself away from the other players and get damage/survival skills in there?"

[LonesomeSparrow]

I'd say we should actually move in the other direction and get some real friendly fire in the game - meaning being able to hurt your fellow hunters. as much as I love the series, it's way too easy as it is already. at least that way we'd have to pay more attention to positioning during a fight.

[Kev-Ab]

Originally posted by LonesomeSparrow:

I'd say we should actually move in the other direction and get some real friendly fire in the game - meaning being able to hurt your fellow hunters. as much as I love the series, it's way too easy as it is already. at least that way we'd have to pay more attention to positioning during a fight.

Throwing someone into the monster is already doing damage to your allies usually, the monster is NOT going to stop attacking just because you launched your friend onto him and if someone finds that annoying there's a lot of weapons that can convert that situation, into an opportunity, maybe they should try that instead of flailing a LongSword like Gorillas.

[Scipo0419]

Originally posted by Kev-Ab:

Originally posted by Scipo0419:

While I overall agree with your point about removing some of the things that make MonHun what it is (flexing after drinking, hit stop, crazy weapon designs). Flinching from ally attacks is not something that defines monster hunter and especially in Gen 5 it almost necessitated adding Flinch Free to your skills because of how easy it is to slot in. Unless they go back to the old system, 99% of players are removing it with a single point anyway, so why not remove it? The old games required you to invest in the skill or work around being flinched by allies, the newer games made it a single decoration spot dedicated to removing flinches.

Yes it is a big part of the game, because you had to organize the people and call dibs on monster parts, it is part of the interaction with other players.
Basically it's a communication and teamwork skill being removed just because online randoms picked longsword and mashed attacks.
The only time in older games that I remember where flinching was actually very very dumb, is back in ps4 release World with the Slash ammo having magical AoE flinching box that made no sense. That was an actual oopsie on developers part.
Launching can also be asked to perform otherwise impossible aerials moves and in fact, MAKING SOMEONE FLINCH IS A WAY TO GET THEM OUT OF HITSTUN, MUD, SLEEP OR EVEN SOME SPECIAL STATUSES.

Granted that not every move should topple/swing upwards, but big powerful attacks should totally do either topple to launch you to also prevent abuse, because if not you will have 4 people doing absolutely bonkers damage on the head at the same time because they can use their most powerful damage combos they have without having to position themselves or having a deco that allows them to do it.
Forcing people to use deco, adds an element of benefit tradeoff and balance "Do I get the flinch free deco? Or do I position myself away from the other players and get damage/survival skills in there?"

I'll admit forgetting about knocking people out of flinch stun, or other effects as I mainly play solo. I just know most people considered the interrupt effect rather than the beneficial effect and most people slotted in Flinch Free to avoid the annoyance. So if the majority of players are avoiding it anyway, it doesn't really need to stay.

I can see both sides, if access to the entirety of my item and equipment boxes mid hunt didn't break me the removal of allies flinching me won't either.

[CalmYoTits]

Honestly the best thing to do would be to make it an option in the settings or something. I found it a ton of fun when playing the SA to use the upswing to throw my wife around, and she got a kick out of it too.

Options are generally the best way to go, give people the option to be thrown or not. Those that like it can leave it on and get tossed, those that are getting annoyed or griefed by it can turn it off. That seems to make the most sent to me.

EDIT: I'm referring only to the heavy throws that send you flying, since iirc Flinch Free didn't prevent that, at least not at low ranks of it.

[Wookiee]

Originally posted by Scipo0419:

While I overall agree with your point about removing some of the things that make MonHun what it is (flexing after drinking, hit stop, crazy weapon designs). Flinching from ally attacks is not something that defines monster hunter and especially in Gen 5 it almost necessitated adding Flinch Free to your skills because of how easy it is to slot in. Unless they go back to the old system, 99% of players are removing it with a single point anyway, so why not remove it? The old games required you to invest in the skill or work around being flinched by allies, the newer games made it a single decoration spot dedicated to removing flinches.

but there is hitstop and there is crazy design in wilds or at least looks like it. So those are non issue. The hitstop was near 0 cause they where testing the water

[Scipo0419]

Originally posted by Wookiee:

Originally posted by Scipo0419:

While I overall agree with your point about removing some of the things that make MonHun what it is (flexing after drinking, hit stop, crazy weapon designs). Flinching from ally attacks is not something that defines monster hunter and especially in Gen 5 it almost necessitated adding Flinch Free to your skills because of how easy it is to slot in. Unless they go back to the old system, 99% of players are removing it with a single point anyway, so why not remove it? The old games required you to invest in the skill or work around being flinched by allies, the newer games made it a single decoration spot dedicated to removing flinches.

but there is hitstop and there is crazy design in wilds or at least looks like it. So those are non issue. The hitstop was near 0 cause they where testing the water

Not sure what hitstop has to do with being flinched by allies (or that being removed)

[Rahk]

Never saw stuff like this 14 years ago, World players complain about literally everything and this is what we get.

[ᔑᓭ∴ᔑリ⊣]

the whole argument about flinch free, launching etc is so retarded just because you literally can all crowd around the head and attack it without hitting eachother. just take 0.2 sec to stop your combo and take a step to the side and boom done. or even (crazy concept this one) actually decide to use a different attack instead of the massive sweeping ones or the giant exploding launching ones if you know they'll hit other players... even less excuses now that there is a straight up aiming mechanic for all the weapons that lets you adjust your angles on the fly, including literally mid-swing

i did see something said about them removing launching attacks, but i reaaaalllyyyy hope that was a mistranslation and not something they are actually considering. its a huge part of interacting with other players (being some of the only direct interaction you get AT ALL outside the chat window), its a massive part of the series as a whole, why on earth would they suddenly want to remove it? its not a negative thing, its beneficial too as has been stated, but more importantly its FUN to do it to friends and such, and casual players like me find it funnier more than anything else when its done accidentally to us. really not happy with this idea

i never liked the addition of the flinch free skill either because i do think its just a laziness enabler making people never required to learn team positioning or the true depths of their weapons, but i vastly, vastly prefer an optional thing such as a skill over straight up removing it for everyone
if they do do this, they damn well better make it an option somewhere in the settings at least, where we can choose if we can be hit by other players or not. i have so many good memories involving getting launched and funny ones involving the flinches, i would seriously hate to see it go. i would consider this one of the biggest negative changes the series has ever done if they go through with it

[JPM岩]

Originally posted by Rahk:

Never saw stuff like this 14 years ago, World players complain about literally everything and this is what we get.

I remember when holding down the A button to gather things in succession was considered the highest MH could go. Now we having people LARPing as old men like ourselves telling to be mad about minor things.

[Black Lamb, Rock Enjoyer]

The topic of friendly fire is rather complicated. This is one of the VERY few old world things that just dont really contribute to the gameplay anymore.

Someone can enlighten me if there is something good about it I missed, but friendly fire doesnt compliment the direction they are taking the series anymore. The only reasons being for friendly fire that I can think of is:

1) Immersion/realism. It does look goofy in other hunting games and post-World where you are just swinging your weapon ontop of each other like they dont exist. Makes it look more game-y.

2) To encourage certain behaviors like preventing a whole party from just stacking in one spot, blitzing monsters, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ down the weakspot (pre-Flinch Free). Actually keeping track of spacing with your allies, slicing weapons on the tail, IG pleaaaase mount, but STOP failing your Je Suis Monte so we can break the back for parts..PLEASE. Longsword, Switch Axe, and Gunlance space and aim your gosh darn attacks..PLEASE, etc. That sort of thing. Some online etiquette of sort.

3) The occasional situation where you can knock someone out of stun WAY faster than they could get out themselves to save them from another attack, or just out of an attack in general (pre-World). And launch them for mount damage or to dunk a monster.

But theres like so many things that are negative about it like:

- Friendly fire leading to a cart. More common than you'd think/remember. Teammates dont care. Its not like FPS games where theres penalties to themselves really. They'll just kick you or say "you suck, why didnt you dodge?"

- Friendly fire interrupting your cool move that took time to build up to use in the first place. "Wow this asshat just interrupted me"

- There are many weapons and people that dont care about the "share the monster, go cut the tail" "online etiquette" thing. Switchaxe and Longsword just swing really wide. They gonna hit you. Gunlance gonna send ya flying with Wyvern Fire. Switch Axe gonna Discharge in your face because ♥♥♥ you thats why. Aiming? Nah, Ima do my own thang. Ranged weapons with their AoE. Why should they care?

-Griefing. Like..people can just grief and play pvp on purpose. What are you gonna do when the LBG/HBG is shooting through you? Gonna go hit them and waste time? Kick em and waste more time when ya could've just been soloing anyways? Lmao remember early World days and the mfing Slicing Ammo pandemic???

And all this just culminates into negativity towards others. This is where the "♥♥♥♥ LS users" sentiment even originated from.

The Cold/Hot Drink argument on the other hand doesnt bring into question all of these negatives (which btw was never the main complaint of "bring back drinks." The main complaint was the lack of negative environmental effects that compliment the immersion of Monster Hunter giving you the feeling of areas actually being dangerous places to the point your character can FEEL the harsh weather, whereas now the environmental stuff just exist for the hunter to take advantage of and abuse)

And thats not even mentioning that the game devs have invalidated friendly fire themselves by introducing freaking Flinch Free in the first place so that brings to question.....why is this in the game again? The thing about encouraging "share the monster, cut the tail?" ZERO point to it now that World started handing you out materials that used to be rare or break-only. Just cap speedrun and skip 75% of the fight. Quest rewards will give it eventually. Stop stacking on the weakspot of a monster? Hell they did it anyways when there wasnt Flinch Free, and with it we are gonna stack and hit through each other like its 1999.

So its either they double down on friendly fire for whatever reason, or just get rid of it since they've effectively got rid of it since World anyways 🤷

[Antitonius]

I really dislike the reduction of friendly fire significance too. CAPCOM seems to think that friendly fire is just another realism feature.. But in reality it is much more than that. It is crucial for team building, proper teamwork and team efficiency...

[Rasjel]

i feel the people that complain the most that flinches can get removed are the ones that flaming others for getting flinched.

yeah yeah the head is for hammer users go to the tail with your longsword.
but you know the head is a way better weakspot for sharp weapons too.

so i have to waste my damage because you cant slot one stone in your armor. and then dictat wereever you stay is forbidden for me.

newsflash its your problem if you get flinched not mine... if you dont want to get flinched stay out of my reach or use that damed flinchfree stone...