The Old Versatile CB has gone... Now the new CB it's called Savage Blade! [FEEDBACK]

[Patren]

The charged blade in the demo felt very strange to me—clunky and far less versatile compared to the one in Monster Hunter World. Certainly, the fact that I played it for over 600 hours in World didn’t help initially in adapting to the many changes this weapon has undergone. However, even after thoroughly understanding each of those changes and paying close attention to the damage numbers on screen, I’ve come to the conclusion that, contrary to what some might think, the charged blade has been significantly downgraded in Wilds.

This isn’t so much in terms of raw damage, which actually tends to be higher than the charged blade in World (especially by utilizing the new phial overload mechanic), but in terms of versatility and playstyles. I’ve read opinions from various players who claim that the charged blade is now designed to utilize its entire move kit. However, I couldn’t disagree more.

As it stands, if you want to play optimally, the only viable mode of the weapon is the Savage Axe. It boasts extremely high DPS and doesn’t consume phials as long as you avoid performing a SAED. From a numerical standpoint, executing a SAED simply isn’t worth it, as the "pizza cutter" (Savage Axe spin attack) has a sufficiently high DPS to render any damage from a well-placed SAED negligible. Additionally, performing a SAED drains the weapon, forcing the player to restart the phial overload loop.

The SAED becomes an option only when you’re not already in Savage Axe mode and even then, only to deal some damage and create wounds to return to Savage Axe mode. Did you perform a perfect guard? You have two choices: execute a SAED immediately, risking being interrupted, taking damage, and losing the stored phial energy, or enter Savage Axe mode and keep hitting hard without depleting the phials. Based on the data—and anyone with a bit of knowledge about this weapon and its timing knows this well—there is really only one choice: Savage Axe!

And don’t get me wrong—I love the Savage Axe mode of the Charge Blade. However, I would have preferred it to be a more accessible and less overpowered mode of the weapon. As it stands, it completely overshadows the rest of the moveset, making them redundant unless they serve as a means to reach Savage Axe mode.

Personally, after playing primarily with the Charge Blade for several years, I’ve decided to leave this weapon behind, as I find it stripped of its essence and boring in Wilds. Instead, I’ve started using weapons like the Lance and the Gunlance, which, based on the demo, seem to be much more thoughtfully designed and significantly more enjoyable to play.

[MartyrSaint]

Pretty much every release has this "THEY RUINED MY FAVOURITE WEAPON!" phase with every single weapon. Every single release strips every single weapon of their "essence" and forces the player to either find a new weapon or learn the new strats.

Trust me, few years from now when the next game comes out we'll all be having this exact same discussion.

[JPM岩]

Originally posted by MartyrSaint:

Pretty much every release has this "THEY RUINED MY FAVOURITE WEAPON!" phase with every single weapon. Every single release strips every single weapon of their "essence" and forces the player to either find a new weapon or learn the new strats.

Trust me, few years from now when the next game comes out we'll all be having this exact same discussion.

Thats not even remotely true, you hardly have weapons getting their essence stripped in general, last major one I can think of is Long Sword turning into a counter weapon instead of a repositioning weapon. With Wilds tho, a lot of weapons don't make sense. Switch Axe, for example, lost ALL flow. PreRise, it didnt have a lot of flow, Rise added a lot more smooth transitions between forms, and then Wilds, for some reason, decided that 3U's Switch Axe with counters stapled on was good enough. Luckily, the devs have confirmed that Lance, Switch Axe, Glaive, and SnS, are all getting reworked based on feedback, with Lance and SA getting the most revisions (journalists were heavily discouraged from using Lance and SA because theyre getting such heavy reworks).

[Black Lamb, Rock Enjoyer]

More like Charge Axe. The main thing is how they nerfed AED phial explosions to 2 for a follow up attack...and you might as well savage axe. No point in going sword mode when the focus attack instantly goes into sword while attacking.

The only way we gonna see phial explosion playstyle relevance is if armor skills bring it back...or the inevitable expansion. Needless to say, you can ignore the white knight who has nothing to contribute to the topic.

[JPM岩]

Originally posted by Black Lamb, Rock Enjoyer:

More like Charge Axe. The main thing is how they nerfed AED phial explosions to 2 for a follow up attack...and you might as well savage axe. No point in going sword mode when the focus attack instantly goes into sword while attacking.

The only way we gonna see phial explosion playstyle relevance is if armor skills bring it back...or the inevitable expansion. Needless to say, you can ignore the white knight who has nothing to contribute to the topic.

The Japanese name for CB is Charge Axe...

[[reaVerNL@Rumble]ᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ]

Originally posted by Patren:

The charged blade in the demo felt very strange to me—clunky and far less versatile compared to the one in Monster Hunter World. Certainly, the fact that I played it for over 600 hours in World didn’t help initially in adapting to the many changes this weapon has undergone. However, even after thoroughly understanding each of those changes and paying close attention to the damage numbers on screen, I’ve come to the conclusion that, contrary to what some might think, the charged blade has been significantly downgraded in Wilds.

Too early to tell really. I still need to see how the weapon plays in Wilds compared to its previous installment being World.

This isn’t so much in terms of raw damage, which actually tends to be higher than the charged blade in World (especially by utilizing the new phial overload mechanic), but in terms of versatility and playstyles. I’ve read opinions from various players who claim that the charged blade is now designed to utilize its entire move kit. However, I couldn’t disagree more.

A massive "Eeeeeh" in both directions really.

As it stands, if you want to play optimally, the only viable mode of the weapon is the Savage Axe. It boasts extremely high DPS and doesn’t consume phials as long as you avoid performing a SAED. From a numerical standpoint, executing a SAED simply isn’t worth it, as the "pizza cutter" (Savage Axe spin attack) has a sufficiently high DPS to render any damage from a well-placed SAED negligible. Additionally, performing a SAED drains the weapon, forcing the player to restart the phial overload loop.

As far as I've seen, overloading phials does not increase damage. As for the dps, in World Savage Axe blew SAED out of the water in almost any scenario. There's only a handful scenarios where SAED is better than savage axe and even in those scenarios savage axe has no trouble competing. If we compare impact SAED, you get the same damage (or more) by doing S+L (morph to axe), H, AED. With elemental damage the SAED deals a little more but not by much. If the monster is too small the SAED phials don't properly hit wasting a lot of damage potential. Then there's issues with recovery, where savage axe simply has much better recovery than SAED.

The SAED becomes an option only when you’re not already in Savage Axe mode and even then, only to deal some damage and create wounds to return to Savage Axe mode. Did you perform a perfect guard? You have two choices: execute a SAED immediately, risking being interrupted, taking damage, and losing the stored phial energy, or enter Savage Axe mode and keep hitting hard without depleting the phials. Based on the data—and anyone with a bit of knowledge about this weapon and its timing knows this well—there is really only one choice: Savage Axe!

And don’t get me wrong—I love the Savage Axe mode of the Charge Blade. However, I would have preferred it to be a more accessible and less overpowered mode of the weapon. As it stands, it completely overshadows the rest of the moveset, making them redundant unless they serve as a means to reach Savage Axe mode.

Personally, after playing primarily with the Charge Blade for several years, I’ve decided to leave this weapon behind, as I find it stripped of its essence and boring in Wilds. Instead, I’ve started using weapons like the Lance and the Gunlance, which, based on the demo, seem to be much more thoughtfully designed and significantly more enjoyable to play.

I myself think the implementation of Savage Axe in world is better, not because of its balance compared to SAED. But rather because more of the weapon is used. And this is also something that more or less persists into Wilds, just not in a way that is good enough. The caveat to this however is that when people waste your time, you lose significant portions of your buffs and the Wilds implementation more or less avoids that.

I also have no clue on how this perfect guard to enter savage axe is going to work when guard 9 scenarios become common (like Iceborne monkeys). In the old games when you guarded something too strong you'd get into a stagger and you would be unable to capitalize. If they do something like this in Wilds and players are not allowed to perfect guard point into savage axe (which they are not in the beta), a strong monster would effectively seal savage axe for the player.

On the flipside, the savage axe buff is not reliant on phials, you and whip that thing out at any moment and charge phials after. It means you can use savage axe AND SAED, the problem with this is of course when and why you would want to when savage axe simply does more damage and is faster, safer and easier. I suppose that if you can figure an SAED is going to stun you can do that SAED, recharge phials and continue with savage axe. But this is basically a border case.

So all in all, I wouldn't think it's that bad compared to what world had on offer, it's going to be different and maybe it will end up working out better. Just right now the correct place to be is on the fence.

[[reaVerNL@Rumble]ᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ]

Originally posted by JPM岩:

Originally posted by MartyrSaint:

Pretty much every release has this "THEY RUINED MY FAVOURITE WEAPON!" phase with every single weapon. Every single release strips every single weapon of their "essence" and forces the player to either find a new weapon or learn the new strats.

Trust me, few years from now when the next game comes out we'll all be having this exact same discussion.

Thats not even remotely true, you hardly have weapons getting their essence stripped in general, last major one I can think of is Long Sword turning into a counter weapon instead of a repositioning weapon. With Wilds tho, a lot of weapons don't make sense. Switch Axe, for example, lost ALL flow. PreRise, it didnt have a lot of flow, Rise added a lot more smooth transitions between forms, and then Wilds, for some reason, decided that 3U's Switch Axe with counters stapled on was good enough. Luckily, the devs have confirmed that Lance, Switch Axe, Glaive, and SnS, are all getting reworked based on feedback, with Lance and SA getting the most revisions (journalists were heavily discouraged from using Lance and SA because theyre getting such heavy reworks).

When I tried SA in the beta it felt very punishing to use really. I thought that that was just a me problem however.

[JPM岩]

Originally posted by reaVerNL@Rumbleᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ:

Originally posted by JPM岩:

Thats not even remotely true, you hardly have weapons getting their essence stripped in general, last major one I can think of is Long Sword turning into a counter weapon instead of a repositioning weapon. With Wilds tho, a lot of weapons don't make sense. Switch Axe, for example, lost ALL flow. PreRise, it didnt have a lot of flow, Rise added a lot more smooth transitions between forms, and then Wilds, for some reason, decided that 3U's Switch Axe with counters stapled on was good enough. Luckily, the devs have confirmed that Lance, Switch Axe, Glaive, and SnS, are all getting reworked based on feedback, with Lance and SA getting the most revisions (journalists were heavily discouraged from using Lance and SA because theyre getting such heavy reworks).

When I tried SA in the beta it felt very punishing to use really. I thought that that was just a me problem however.

The problem with SA in the beta was that it was a cycle of punishment. You'd use Power Axe to charge Amped faster, to deal more damage. But, your Power Axe was stronger and more reliable than SA in Amped State, plus it has the Counter in Axe Form that's miles stronger, more beneficial, and faster, than Sword's counter. Then, you have your Sword moves being so weak that Amped doesnt provide much of anything outside of ZSD and the new Full Discharge, which, if that's what the team wants, why bother with literally anything else? And on top of that, it's piss all damage.

[mi62_reed1]

My only Problem is the combo chain of hitting triangle + Circle together shouldnt have the single Phial Discharge in that chain. Even if they leave it the window from activating SAED after the Single Phial attack needs to be way bigger so can decide if i want to commit to the SAED or not. as how i typically play I missed good opportunities because the window for follow up closed but combo list still showed available.

[Toyosatomimi no Miko]

It's called Charge Axe in JP, what did you expect? For them to focus on the sword?

[zero]

well yeah, its a good thing, now you're actually using the full kit rather then sword->saed's

not even accounting for how frequent that was in rise.

now your actually spending your time in axe form to do damage, which is what is the intended goal of it, rather the the sword, which is the build up/defensive phase of the weapon.

[MartyrSaint]

Originally posted by JPM岩:

Originally posted by MartyrSaint:

Pretty much every release has this "THEY RUINED MY FAVOURITE WEAPON!" phase with every single weapon. Every single release strips every single weapon of their "essence" and forces the player to either find a new weapon or learn the new strats.

Trust me, few years from now when the next game comes out we'll all be having this exact same discussion.

Thats not even remotely true, you hardly have weapons getting their essence stripped in general, last major one I can think of is Long Sword turning into a counter weapon instead of a repositioning weapon. With Wilds tho, a lot of weapons don't make sense. Switch Axe, for example, lost ALL flow. PreRise, it didnt have a lot of flow, Rise added a lot more smooth transitions between forms, and then Wilds, for some reason, decided that 3U's Switch Axe with counters stapled on was good enough. Luckily, the devs have confirmed that Lance, Switch Axe, Glaive, and SnS, are all getting reworked based on feedback, with Lance and SA getting the most revisions (journalists were heavily discouraged from using Lance and SA because theyre getting such heavy reworks).

So... you're telling me... the Switch Axe was one way then they changed it and then they changed it again?

Amazing that somebody can say "That's not even remotely true" and then say something that just proves my point.

The weapons are a bit different between every single title, people whine and moan about it and the cycle repeats when the next game releases.

[JPM岩]

Originally posted by MartyrSaint:

Originally posted by JPM岩:

Thats not even remotely true, you hardly have weapons getting their essence stripped in general, last major one I can think of is Long Sword turning into a counter weapon instead of a repositioning weapon. With Wilds tho, a lot of weapons don't make sense. Switch Axe, for example, lost ALL flow. PreRise, it didnt have a lot of flow, Rise added a lot more smooth transitions between forms, and then Wilds, for some reason, decided that 3U's Switch Axe with counters stapled on was good enough. Luckily, the devs have confirmed that Lance, Switch Axe, Glaive, and SnS, are all getting reworked based on feedback, with Lance and SA getting the most revisions (journalists were heavily discouraged from using Lance and SA because theyre getting such heavy reworks).

So... you're telling me... the Switch Axe was one way then they changed it and then they changed it again?

Amazing that somebody can say "That's not even remotely true" and then say something that just proves my point.

The weapons are a bit different between every single title, people whine and moan about it and the cycle repeats when the next game releases.

No... I'm not? Slight changes always happens, but theres never ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about slight changes. There's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ when theres major overhauls when there's zero need for them, like Long Sword turning into a counter weapon, or Switch Axe having all of the Switching that was JUST added being removed for no reason. Lance getting a new combo or whatever isnt "stripping a weapon's identity", SnS getting shield buffs isnt "stripping". Hell, gunlance having Heat Gauge removed, isn't "stripping". Changing a weapon to something that it wasn;t, is stripping the identity.

[[reaVerNL@Rumble]ᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ]

What they really need to do is nerf longsword into the ground. As that is the real problem with the game. The other weapons are more or less fine, but only longswords repeatedly find themselves in the hands of complete morons.

[ホワイトタイガ!!]

Irrelevant but I just want to point out about Bow coatings that has been around since mh2dos, from 2nd gen till 5th World & Rise. I don't like this dumbass design to remove 'thing' that's already part of the hunting core experience. this new mechanic resemble ability cooldown from MMO while yes monster hunter was inspired by phantasy star online which is also an MMO but after that, monster hunter has its own identity for a decade now, Capcom removing it little by little, piece by piece make me struggle to see where is this going from now. You have 'quality of life' feature like auto-combining, radial shortcut, etc in 5th gen, even your followers (cats and handler Alma) picking gathering resources for ya without player input but Capcom still want to remove something from it, for example coatings in this case. Casualization at its finest I guess, maybe even more dumbing down. .

[JPM岩]

Originally posted by ホワイトタイガ!!:

Irrelevant but I just want to point out about Bow coatings that has been around since mh2dos, from 2nd gen till 5th World & Rise. I don't like this dumbass design to remove 'thing' that's already part of the hunting core experience. this new mechanic resemble ability cooldown from MMO while yes monster hunter was inspired by phantasy star online which is also an MMO but after that, monster hunter has its own identity for a decade now, Capcom removing it little by little, piece by piece make me struggle to see where is this going from now. You have 'quality of life' feature like auto-combining, radial shortcut, etc in 5th gen, even your followers (cats and handler Alma) picking gathering resources for ya without player input but Capcom still want to remove something from it, for example coatings in this case. Casualization at its finest I guess, maybe even more dumbing down. .

Arent Coatings just built into the bow now? Not just flat removed?